Rant Complaints About Bad Opponents

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I'm really getting tired of people bitching about how opponents call down with any two cards a lot of the time. Back when this happened at Party 25nl, they called it a fucking gold mine.

I added the bold for emphasis.

You guys need to understand something about poker. When some dumbass calls with a really loose range and hits his two pair or some shit to suck out on you, you're still making money if you're betting your hands correctly.

If your opponents are constantly playing worse starting hands than you and continuing on the flop with worse hands than you, then you should be making a killing in hold'em.

Jesus Christ, it's the same thing over and over. How do you beat guys who call down with middle pair all the time? YOU BET TOP PAIR HOLY SHIT WTF.

Stop bluffing calling stations, like seriously just fucking stop. It's fine to c-bet against most of these guys if you have some outs, but don't get pissed off when you get called.

But before you can stop bluffing calling stations, you've got to know who the calling stations are, so start paying more attention to wtf you're doing. If some guy calls three pot-sized bets with Q3 on a 3AK75 board, then making a fucking note about it and value bet the piss out of him from now on.

If some guys calls two bets with 55 on a KJ8 board and then shoves for like 4x the pot or some shit on the river 5, stop calling with KT and bitching about the guy catching a set on the river. If he does the same line over and over, THEN you should look him up with some top-pair type hands, but that requires a read, which goes back to what I just said about taking notes on what opponents do.

Here's the thing -- you suck at poker. Don't worry, I suck at poker too. The thing is, these guys probably suck worse than you. If you can figure out ways that they suck (ie they call down too loosely, play any two preflop, tip their monsters with huge bets, etc), take a note on that behavior, and then exploit the living shit out of it, then you make money because you're making their awesome Hoover-esque sucking power work for you.

If you aren't 100% sure how to bet your hands, how to give incorrect pot odds against draws, how to know if you're getting the right odds to call down with draws, or what sort of hands you should be playing preflop, then stop playing and start reading and studying and shit.

Get with some people who don't suck as bad as you do on AIM (see the little AIM buttons under peoples posts -- I'm on AIM like all the fucking time so talk to me if you want, I don't care, here's even what the damn button looks like so you'll know which one it is when you scroll all the way down ), or come to the Chat Room or the old IRC or send me a PM and we'll set up a time to talk on Ventrilo or some shit. Some people will tell you to fuck off because they're busy but fuck em, get to talking to someone else. Goddamn, just do something to help yourselves because this whole community is here to see you beat the shit out of people at poker and I keep seeing the same fucking questions over and over and over and over and over and fucking over 50 more fucking times.

So Chopper, Pythonic and myself are in the chat room like RIGHT FUCKING NOW. Get on it for real.

Here is one problem most have. They get pissed at these guys for that and think that when they get a hand they will do one of two things. 1) is they change their line, they flop a set and slow down against a calling station to "trap" WRONG. bet you usual amount, get value while they are still calling to hit that gutshot or A. or 2) they think calling stations call anything and overbet, WRONG AGAIN. Just value bet the three streets again. Don't ,ake him question his calling a bet becasue now it's to damn expensive. These guys want to call bets, not shoves and not river overbets. They want to chase and they want to do it on the flop and turn.

Amen Brother!

True true! I especially hate seeing people type in the chat on the poker room how much this guy sucks or lucky f... or whatever. I looooove playing with those "lucky" people and don't want them to change thier ways 'cause eventually I'm gonna get paid off!

I hate the people who bash the lucky people. Why would you want to tell them they played so poorly? Keep fish fishy!

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Get with some people who don't suck as bad as you do on AIM (see the little AIM buttons under peoples posts -- I'm on AIM like all the fucking time so talk to me if you want, I don't care, here's even what the damn button looks like so you'll know which one it is when you scroll all the way down ), or come to the Chat Room or the old IRC or send me a PM and we'll set up a time to talk on Ventrilo or some shit. Some people will tell you to fuck off because they're busy but fuck em, get to talking to someone else.

This doesn't always mean forever though. Sometimes people have bad days, or are really busy either playing for living or dealing with shit. Don't be sensitive just move on. Hell I have spent tons of time on AIM, MSN and vent talking about hands and shit, but sometimes I need to say fuck off as well.

nh sir.

I´m online at msn during eurpean nights, always glad to help or talk shit as well.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Get with some people who don't suck as bad as you do on AIM (see the little AIM buttons under peoples posts -- I'm on AIM like all the fucking time so talk to me if you want, I don't care, here's even what the damn button looks like so you'll know which one it is when you scroll all the way down ), or come to the Chat Room or the old IRC or send me a PM and we'll set up a time to talk on Ventrilo or some shit. Some people will tell you to fuck off because they're busy but fuck em, get to talking to someone else.

This doesn't always mean forever though. Sometimes people have bad days, or are really busy either playing for living or dealing with shit. Don't be sensitive just move on. Hell I have spent tons of time on AIM, MSN and vent talking about hands and shit, but sometimes I need to say fuck off as well.

Yeah I was going to include something to this effect but forgot to.

Can I get a HELL YEA!!!!

I agree with all of the sentiments on this board. If those people who berate the fish or try to be table coach thought about it for one nanosecond they would realise how stupid they are being.

What's worse, in the SNG world, people look up opponents on Sharkscope who called to showdown with bottom pair but spiked their second pair on the river and say, "Hah, no wonder you've lost $4k over your last 500 tourneys when you play like SH.IT". Some of these guys probably just deposit $50-100 every weekend for a bit of fun and have no idea how much they've won or lost, just like they might go to the casino every now and again and drop $100 on the BJ tables.

If this was you and another player at the BJ table told you, "Man, no wonder you're down $5000 this year when you're splitting those tens!" wouldn't that give you reason to pause?

I posted this in the Limit forum, but it applies everywhere:

Think of it as dues paying. Hands like that reward and reinforce poor play on the part of bad players. Psychologically winning this hand will stick in his mind - he held on and won a big pot.

So he'll hang onto those middle pairs a hundred times now, and lose 90 of them.

The reason Hold'em is so appealing to so many players is because poor play is so often rewarded. If it wasn't the smart players would all be clearing 50BB/100 for all of a week, then be out-nitting each other after all the weak players had been cleaned out. The profitability margin of good play is razor thin: 2BB/100 is great over the long-term. That's a good thing, because it keeps the fish interested and coming back for more, though it sucks when you pay your dues in the form of bad beats.

Nice rant, spoon.

Here's my line on donks who call a rr pre w/ 38o, then stack my AK: "nh" in chat, note to self, reload and pray they don't change at all.

Now, in this hand, how did I react. When the cards turned over I said, hell yes and reloaded. I fucking LOVE getting drawn out on, PROVES I outplayed them. Celebrate your bad beats because it is a long term game, if you get upset over one hand one buy in that is missing the point, poker is about thousands of hands not one.
I used to get upset but now I enjoy bad beats, my bankroll can take em I can mentally take them so bring it on!

I just posted this hand as a typical hand were you have a marginal edge and make the right call but lose.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($10.65)
Button ($12.20)
SB ($4.90)
BB ($4.40)
UTG ($12.80)
MP ($10.10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, Q.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.4, Hero calls $0.40, 3 folds.

Flop: ($0.95) K, 6, 3 (2 players)
MP bets $0.7, Hero raises to $3.1, MP raises to $9.7, Hero calls $6.60.

Turn: ($20.35) 2 (2 players)

River: ($20.35) 3 (2 players)

Final Pot: $20.35

Results in white below:
MP has 9c Ac (flush, ace high).
Hero has Kh Qs (two pair, kings and threes).
Outcome: MP wins $20.35.

lol you're only 55% there but yeah i get your point

Also guys, don't forget buddylist - if someone draws out on you and you can't help but get angry, spend the day chasing them around - also LOL when you see a fish who you played 100NL with the other day playing playmoney/freerolls.

Yea, not the best example Prozach but we know where your going, If I am Villain I play this all day the same way. I have seen villains make the same play though with 8c5c

I was AHEAD!
No, I know I wasn't huge fave, that one happened and reminded me of this thread.

Had a dude push a low flush draw against my top set today on the flop for about 125bb and caught, and if I wasn't lazy I'd go get it and post it.

Try this one on for size. I was doing a vid for my site and this was the first hand I caught on Camtasia.

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Absolute-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($50.25)
MP ($16.20)
CO ($50.75)
Button ($54.15)
SB ($59.10)
BB ($128.77)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T, Q.
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.25) 5, J, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3.5, BB calls $3.50.

Turn: ($11.25) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $7.5, BB calls $7.50.

River: ($26.25) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $42.5, Hero calls $37.25 (All-In).

Final Pot: $100.75

showdown
BB Shows 5 6 (Flush, nine high)
Hero - Mucks
BB Collects $97.25 from main pot

TJ, that reminds me of an industrial strength diaper I changed yesteday - rancid stinky.