Quote Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
Quote Originally Posted by Ovaltine88
Do you guys think I can grind up to 4k-6k bankroll maybe 200NL without using poker tracker or any HUDs?
Sure do, because I've done it! I don't use PT or HUD, and never plan on using them in the future. I don't use them when I play live, so why do I need them online? I'll probably get flamed for this but whatever.
If you get flamed, ppls are out of line. Miffed hasn't been around the Beginner's Forum in a while, but he's one the main proponents of NOT using HUD's at the micros. He thinks you need to learn to read the game without them. He argues that you learn better, faster without a HUD.

I disagree, as do some others. Many of the 50nl - 200nl grinders use HUD's to multitable 10 - 20 tables at a time, depending on the person. I will say this. I play MANY fewer tables when I'm playing a new level or a new site. I'm a math geek, so all the numbers and patterns help me learn the game better and faster. And I live in Bumf**k East in the middle of the Bible Belt south, with no casino within 8 hours or live games closer than an hour. Since online is about all I do, the HUD makes sense. I don't have many prospects of playing when I can't use it.

But know this. Very few of the high limit players use a HUD, since there the opponents can all vary their games based on players, stack sizes, recent hands and other conditions. So a HUD and history means a lot less. Most of them (according to their posts in the high stakes forum) know lots of their opponents pretty well and can pretty well pwn the ones who rely too much on HUD's.

At the limits I play, most players are very robotic. So the HUD reads can help. And villain profiling is even better, where you take apart their game offline and make specific notes about how to exploit them. For the villain I profiled above, I will have almost zero chance of making a big mistake against him. He'll take some big pots down when he hits his sets and I make a hand, but I'll get out of his way when I'm beat the vast majority of the time. And I'll be able to pick spots to stack him and steal small pots.

Also, something I'm learning is that for each villain I profile, I learn about a whole range of villains who play a similar style. I learned about ranges and how various ppl play the different types of hands by watching the replayer in PT. Playing well against any single opponent means careful observation, either digital or analog, but preferably both.