Quote Originally Posted by Checkways
Should you ever muck your KK to a reraise? Lol. NO! Are you kidding?
...

I play cash games everyday for hours so I see KK all the time. Big deal if I fold one.
I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what your recommendation is.
Some points have been made that I agree with
-Someone who reraises PF has AA a lot of the time. I'd put it at around 75-80%
-A PF re-reraise is, as Cloutier says, "99% pure aces". I don't actually find that this holds in very aggressive games, 6max, or certain fishy low stakes ones. You started this thread with a hand about a re-re-reraise w/AKs!
-You ought not push KK every time you're reraised. That's just your read: if you think this is one of the 20-25% that opp doesn't have AA, push. If not, don't. Call and be willing to fold without a set. If an A comes, the fold is obviously a no-brainer


Some points that I think have been made (or implied) that I don't agree with:
-"when I have KK and I'm reraised, opp has AA __% of the time." I don't get it. What you're holding doesn't matter. Look again at your data. Look for ANY reraises PF regardless of your holdings. I bet it's near the 75% figure.

Quote Originally Posted by Greedo017
Quote Originally Posted by LeFou
Seems kinda backward to me. In a cash game the worst that could happen is that you are in fact up against AA and reach into your pocket and buy more chips and keep playing.
So you're saying in a cash game, the worst thing that could happen is that you repeatedly make a costly -EV mistake? and this isn't a big deal?
The critical thing here is when you're pushing. You're pushing when you don't think opp has AA. Obviously it's -EV to push into aces, but suppose you read the situation right ... 2/3 times. A bit better than half.

that means (2/3 X 75%) = 50% of the time you think opp has aces and she does. You call, and play from there.
1/3 X 75% = 25% you don't think opp has aces but she does. you push and lose.
1/3 X 25% = 8% you think opp has aces but she doesn't. You call and play from there.
2/3 X 25% = 17% you don't think opp has aces and you're right. You push while dominating.

So that 25% where you push and lose is painful. But the 17% where you push when dominating -- or lure opp in for hisher stack, plus smart play in the other 58% of cases, can make up for that.

It looks like 2 cases have got under discussion, though.
1. You have KK, raise, and are reraised (above) I think it's johnny and Trips' fault that this is what's being talked about most...
2. Someone raises in front of you (the original topic)

Just about any pair is well-advised to flat call one raise PF. If you flat call with your kings (esp. in early/middle position), I think you're offering way too much to the people in back. And since a hidden set is going to crush your stack most of the time, I advise reraising with your kings at least 85% of the time in early/middle.

In late position you're much better off. An early raise and a few folds offers you a good opportunity to trap QQ/JJ/AK/AQ/etc. with your kings. But an early raise with a couple cold-callers is dangerous, and you should generally try to isolate.