Middle stages of an MTT when in front how to play?

I'm in second place in a MTT with 181 out of 492 people left in. I've been playing very aggressive to this stage.. chip holdings at the moment are: -

1. 68,653
2. Me (62,971)
3.57,883
4. 42034
5. 37858
....

Las t 9 win the prize.

I'm a little concerned that if I dont continue to play aggressive the others might start doubling up. But I'm also concerned about giving the chip advantage I have away.

What are you thoughts for this and future similiar positions?

Thanks...

Alas. It wasn't to be. Despite ploughing through the early middle, and closing stages of the tournament I fell at the last hurdle.

I was in 5th position until a miscalculation sent me scuttling into 19th, and depleted my chip stack from 75k to 15k.

At that point with 30 people left, I knew I was going to just have to play every and any hand that looked half sensible, so I went in with a couple of suited connectors, and good burned.

I'll stand back and look at the bigger picture, it's the best i've done in this tournament so It's improvement. But, I can't help but think I won't be getting that close again for some time, it's been 3 weeks playing every night to get that far!




<Edit>

For any beginners out there reading this - my advice is to remember in the closing stages of the tournament what your goal is. You've worked hard to get your chips don't throw them away. Instead of thinking I need to get more chips to move up a couple of places, realise that, the people below you are thinking exactly the same thing, only their need is more desperate as they are further down the list - so wait for them to make mistakes when you have good hands and don't try to prematurely rush things.

That's where I went wrong, I hope someone else doesn't make the same mistake - because it's not nice. However, it's all learning. I've never been in a dominant position in the closing stages of a MTT before, now I have, I know what to expect next time it happens. If only I was thinking this clearly 20 minutes ago Good Luck.

Having read your last post, I now know why I never win on the Betfair freerolls, all the idiots going all in with K9 - on a flop of Q27 - to bust my QA.

As for these freerolls, you don't win anything - only entry into another freeroll so why not save the hassle of the past 3 weeks and just buy direct into the satellite events for a nominal fee?

You admit to being new so I'd learn a bit before passing out advice to other noobies (see your Hellmuth book thread). One thing you will learn is that you apply the pressure to the smaller stacks and can do so with an ever increasing range of hands.

I am new but I am considerablly more advanced than a complete beginner I think it fair to say in my past three weeks intense study and play. I was playing pot value and the fact I had a read on my main oponent here Thunder. Betfair is no different to any other poker site. Pot odds exist because even a A-A-A-K-K is no certainty. I have learnt that much from this wonderful forum already, and am merely trying to give a little back to the community.

As for my loose play, considering the read and the texture of the flop I think it was fine, I doubled my chip stack. One thing I've learnt in these formats of tournaments is you HAVE to take risks (as Harrington advocates re SA style in middle/late stages of small stake MTT).

Cheers

The chipstacks are completely meaningless if not in relation to the blinds. If you have a couple of short stacks I would just wait for a good hand because they have to shove at some point and you should only call if you're confident that you're ahead of their range. If you for whatever reason raise QJ from MP and a shortstack comes over the top you might even have to call and probably double him up. So this is not a good idea. Keep playing reasonable hands... especially in 30$ and less buy-in tournaments. No point in getting tricky, just bet when you have it and fold if you don't basically.

Never ever push SC's!!
They are only valuable in a multi-way pot when most of the players are relatively deep. There is no way you aren't dominated if you get called.
The only time I push SC's is in situations where I would push any two - for excample as a 5M shortstack on the button if everyone else has folded.
A3 is a better hand to push than 45s if you have to.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

I am new but I am considerablly more advanced than a complete beginner

Disagree.

I think it fair to say in my past three weeks intense study and play

My point exactly.

As for my loose play, considering the read and the texture of the flop I think it was fine

If you say so.

You are an arrogant fool, I have no time for you. Good day.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

You are an arrogant fool, I have no time for you. Good day.

Really? Go trawl through my hundreds of posts. You'll see that I am constantly asking questions, wanting to learn.
There was one thread where I disagreed with better players (the ace rag-flush thread) and have regretted it ever since. There is a lesson there, should you choose to see it.

As for arrogant, that's pot calling the kettle black arse. You're the one who won't listen to other people - not just me. You think you're good enough after 3 weeks to critique or pass on info. You continue to do so despite popular opinion from more knowledgeable players (on this site and others) stating otherwise, you are unable to take on constructive criticism and display a clear inability to accept the fact that you are still a very formative newb with much to learn and not enough to, as yet, pass on. And to top it off you fail to see what is intended as advice and perceive only attacks instead.

How's that for both foolish and arrogant?


You can take a horticulture but you can't make her think.

You deserve to be banned for your blatent disregard of forum etiquete.

'you think your good enough'

LMAO who the hell do you think you are? You have severe insecurity issues as evidenced by your constant pathetic attempts at belittling people, I would seek professional help if I was you.

All I can say Is I hope I meet you on the tables one day, that is if ever you qualify for the higher tournaments, which is something I will have done within the year.

alright chill guys. no won wins in an internet argument.

Originally Posted by oskar

The chipstacks are completely meaningless if not in relation to the blinds. If you have a couple of short stacks I would just wait for a good hand because they have to shove at some point and you should only call if you're confident that you're ahead of their range. If you for whatever reason raise QJ from MP and a shortstack comes over the top you might even have to call and probably double him up. So this is not a good idea. Keep playing reasonable hands... especially in 30$ and less buy-in tournaments. No point in getting tricky, just bet when you have it and fold if you don't basically.

Never ever push SC's!!
They are only valuable in a multi-way pot when most of the players are relatively deep. There is no way you aren't dominated if you get called.
The only time I push SC's is in situations where I would push any two - for excample as a 5M shortstack on the button if everyone else has folded.
A3 is a better hand to push than 45s if you have to.

I dont know what position he was in, but from the image he posted the blinds were 500/1000 with an ante of 100 so he had an M of 6. I agree though, you're likely to get called with anything, so i would instead push with any pocket pair, any ace, and any king from any position, and then any queen, and any high suited cards from the button or cut off. This way, when someone calls you there is a reasonable chance you are ahead since i can see them calling any two cards.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

You deserve to be banned for your blatent disregard of forum etiquete.

'you think your good enough'

LMAO who the hell do you think you are? You have severe insecurity issues as evidenced by your constant pathetic attempts at belittling people, I would seek professional help if I was you.

All I can say Is I hope I meet you on the tables one day, that is if ever you qualify for the higher tournaments, which is something I will have done within the year.

My post still stands. You've done nothing to a) answer it or b) show any evidence that I belittle people. And from your own admission, plus your posts, plus your inability to listen to others is more than justification for my comments that you think are good enough to pass judgement. And if you look closely, all I said was 'you think you're good enough after 3 weeks to critique or pass on info.' I didn't actually state anything to the contrary. I just highlighted the situation.

But all that is by the by. You can take a horse to water but that is all you can do. And that is all I have done.

As for constantly belittling people, how many of my 380+ posts have done that? None. The past 4 or 5 (in answer to you) have pointed out deficiencies that you are unable to handle without taking mega offence. So now who needs the psychiatrist?

And as for insecure, you've laid down a challenge to someone you don't even know. I could have an ROI of %80 for all you know. My bankroll could support 8 tables at 2/4 - and all from a $10 deposit. Yet despite all this you act like a desperado with something to prove. And you talk about arrogance and foolishness?

At the end of the day, feel free to make ludicrous comments and posts. Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics as even if you win you're still retarded. We have tried to help you out and point out some flaws in your thinking/actions and if you choose to ignore them then it's no skin off noses. However, your clear inability to be seen as anything other than a noob - and one who can be wrong - is going to hinder you in your learning and will certainly prevent you from playing at the higher stakes that you talk about. It's also arrogant and foolish.


I guess the proof will be in the pudding, whether you will still be here in 12 months time and whether you will be a winning player at the higher stakes.

Oh, and, seeing as you think I am so full of it, I guess there is no more need to keep pm'ing me, is there?


Am out - like your freeroll results.

Originally Posted by Thunder

Am out - like your freeroll results.

Oh no he didnt?!?!
Bitch yes he did!!!!!!

Seriously though, what Thunder said. These guys know what they're talking about, just listen.

Or dont.

Originally Posted by oskar

Never ever push SC's!!
They are only valuable in a multi-way pot when most of the players are relatively deep. There is no way you aren't dominated if you get called.
The only time I push SC's is in situations where I would push any two - for excample as a 5M shortstack on the button if everyone else has folded.
A3 is a better hand to push than 45s if you have to.

I strongly disagree with this. SC are very sexy to push both as a short stack and a big stack picking on the short stacks. You are along never dominated with a hand like 89, 810, etc. The whole point of pushing is fold equity, but if you do get called you want a hand thatss very good at winning races and cracking big pairs.. and suited connectors serve both functions well. Go to http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds/texas_holdem and experiment with how certain hands fare against other random hands and youll see that SCs are awesome hands.

Would you rather have 78 vs AK or A9? Would you rather have 44 vs 66 or 89? etc etc etc

Nom nom nom I love popcorn.

And I agree, freerolls = waste of time basically.

lol slevin, just listen man. three weeks, you don't know jack all about poker.

The posts might seem harsh, but they will only get more harsh the longer you hold out with your closed ears and mind.

And passing along advice and suggestions to other newbies just seems goofy when you are clearly in no position to be doing so.

I am going to be world champion within 5 years I think I am not goofy. Thankyou.

its fine to set goals, in the meantime don't pretend like you have already met them. that's all, man.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

I am going to be world champion within 5 years I think I am not goofy. Thankyou.

...and I'm gonna meet jesus one day - bitch is I gotta die first...

Seriously dude... IMHO the order of things that usually works best is as follows:
1. Ask questions
2. STFU and listen to the answers
3. Think about the answers and implement
4. Improve and repeat
5. Show real non-"my ass just got lucky for a month" results
6. Make $

and finally...

7. Give advice

I'm sure you is in a higher percentile of $0 profit than you was when u started (how wide is that $0 earnings range anyhow...?) ... but it's still $0 ($0++ maybe?)

That's all anybody here saying... don't get the order of sh!t twisted...

and I'll holla at jesus for you in another 40 years or so....

may peace be with you always

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

may peace be with you always

Dude... if you're going to act like a jack@ss, at least have the balls to keep your original post and not edit it to some "peace" crap...

lol

I'm already pretty sure the dude doesn't have the temperament to be a good player, much less win anything major at all.

We'll see I guess.

My original post read: ' Get stuffed, Dude'.

It's not about having balls, it's about not letting other peoples puerile shallow behaviour effect you. I am being present to myself.

The peace was as much for my own benefit as yours.

Everyone is stuck up their own arse but im not letting it bother me, so have some peace. Dude.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

Zero to hero
-------------------
Getting $0 to $20,000 before moving into larger stakes poker.
Current BR: $0 : Current Phase: Free Roll : Start Date: 28 June 2008.
Free Rolls Entered to Date: 32 : Best Performance : 93rd in a field of 12,000

gl

Thanks.

This has gotten a bit out of hand, but I'll contribute some perspective. First, I like what Sarbox said:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

IMHO the order of things that usually works best is as follows:
1. Ask questions
2. STFU and listen to the answers
3. Think about the answers and implement
4. Improve and repeat
5. Show real non-"my ass just got lucky for a month" results
6. Make $

and finally...

7. Give advice

It reminded me of Robb's 400th Post.

Originally Posted by Robb

When I was a losing player, I was arrogant. I thought these things about my game:

1. The rake is too high - I'm beating this game, just not enough to beat the rake.
2. The fish are schooling on me - I'd be better off at NL100 where they fold their crap. I could win up there.
3. I'm smart. I'm a math professor. I understand probability and game theory. Opp's are total morons. I should be killing this game.
4. I know more than these FTR idiots.
5. When I win, it's me playing like Johnny Chan. When I lose, it's bad luck.

God and FTR regs forgive me for my first 50 posts.

I got Rakeback to help with #1 which was partly true. I got active on FTR to help fix #3 and make it mostly true, admitting that #4 was just plain conceit and idiocy.

We all think differently about FTR and poker after we've been here a few months. That's why we're here. Anyone willing to listen to advice will get better - fast. Most everyone else is simply a dollars donor to the poker economy.

I rarely, if ever, get pms.