I don't get it am I supposed to just fold here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($33.45)
UTG+1 ($25)
MP1 ($92.50)
MP2 ($57.90)
CO ($25)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($16.80)
BB ($31.45)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
2 folds, MP1 bets $0.75, MP2 calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.75, 2 folds, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2

Flop: ($8.60) J, 3, 7 (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $5.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $5.25

Turn: ($19.10) K (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: ($19.10) Q (2 players)
MP2 bets $17, Hero pukes a bit...

obv just sat down

Bet turn, only hand that improved is JK unless he floated with overs (unlikely since you'd expect him to raise most AK, AQ, KQ, etc).

rarely does he float bare overs when u cbet a 3bet 3way, yet whatever Kxhh hes calling pre improved. Easy b/f turn, c/f river imo

Yeah, fact is we can comfortably bet for value on the turn though. This is what b/f was invented for.

pot becomes bloated by the turn value bet if we make one. does this commit us to calling a shove regardless of river?

As said above b/f the turn, if he calls then the river is an easy call since your priced in.

As played with no reads I'd fold the river and give the unknown credit the first time round.

Interesting. We've bet $9 already, so we only have $16 in our stack. $16 seems a little big when we want a J, a draw or smaller pairs to call us, but betting say $11 and leaving $5 behind seems a bit silly too. Even another $1 more on the flop would have a $21 pot and $15 behind which would be nicer, if we can plan that far ahead.

I guess as played if we bet $12 on the turn yeah I'd call the last $4 regardless of river card, because our pot odds justify times he's bluffing whatever the card is.

So what do we have him on? AK/AT hearts? Surely he hit the flush and not the overs unless he was smooth calling the turn to hit his flush? Thoughts?

Originally Posted by AFchung

pot becomes bloated by the turn value bet if we make one. does this commit us to calling a shove regardless of river?

yeah this is why i checked. there's no way im betting the turn like $9 and folding to less than a min raise or folding getting like 5:1 on the river in this case if we bet earlier.

betting the turn sort of turns our hand into a bluff unless he's a station and will call down Jx flush draws or like TT anyway, and checking back gives him a free card. when the turn came I had no idea what to do based on this since I know nothing about the guy.

this hand actually would have been easier to play if I didn't 3-bet preflop (in hindsight of course).

Does anyone like overshoving flop? lol

one other point: this could very well be a very shitty played set on villain's part since he just called the 3-bet preflop.

thought's on how much JJ/33/77 might be showing up here on the riv?

[] Betting the turn kind of turns our hand into a bluff.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

[] Betting the turn kind of turns our hand into a bluff.

does Jx stack off or even call a bet when the king comes on the turn? (assuming villain doesn't hold KJ)

bet 6-7 on flop shove turn if unknown, if you have stats/reads maybe play it different idk.

Is QQ in your pf value stacking off range vs this player? If not i'd prefer you to call pre.

If he's decent, he shouldn't be calling with anything that his a set on this flop OOP preflop - reads/stats woudl help. If he's totally unknown then I just presume he's retarded and just bet bet.

Yes. You cant on one hand complain about people calling down with crap and sucking out on you, then say theres no value when you're hoping weakish hands will call.

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Is QQ in your pf value stacking off range vs this player? If not i'd prefer you to call pre.

I'm finding that just flatting ip w/ premium pp's can be very ++EV. If I 3bet here, it's to $3.

As played, I think you need to cbet the flop bigger. You're very likely ahead. I'm betting at least $6 into $8.60, often as much as $7 depending on the reads I have on the villains. As BJ pointed out above, that takes away the bet/fold option turn, but w/ QQ overs in a 3bet pot you want to get the chips in before the overcard comes.

might be a terrible question but is turning our showdown hand into a bluff so bad? i mean i don't think we're getting any more streets of value out of lesser hands regardless of how we play it

after reading more comments and combining everyones thoughts i think the best line is $7ish on flop which sets up for a easier shove on turn.

I think u need to look into the merits of just calling pre.

What are you doing the majority of the time if he 4bets. Ifu have history/know he's retarded then sure u can shove for value. But vs most ppl, ur going to be in bad shape vs most 4bets.

You have position, u'll be underrepped, so i think u can make more money a lot of the time here just by calling. If he calls ur 3b, yeah sure he's going to have weaker hands in his range, but I don't think we canmake as much moneyas we're repping a pretty strong hand.

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I think u need to look into the merits of just calling pre.

What are you doing the majority of the time if he 4bets. Ifu have history/know he's retarded then sure u can shove for value. But vs most ppl, ur going to be in bad shape vs most 4bets.

You have position, u'll be underrepped, so i think u can make more money a lot of the time here just by calling. If he calls ur 3b, yeah sure he's going to have weaker hands in his range, but I don't think we canmake as much moneyas we're repping a pretty strong hand.

This is good advice, just a word of caution. To profit from this advice, you have to be comfortable playing QQ on Axx and Kxx boards. This requires:

1. Being good at putting people on ranges
2. Floating for value
3. Raising for thin value
4. Being good at putting people on ranges
5. Being good at putting people on ranges

So putting people on ranges is coming across as pretty important, but im not sure... Thoughts? lol

fuck ranges, flop sets.

So...

1.) Fuck ranges
2.) Flop sets
3.) Profitz????

Originally Posted by dranger7070

So...

1.) Fuck ranges
2.) Flop sets
3.) Profitz????

Fuck if you wrote a book on pokerz I'd buy it!!

I will start immediately.

yeah i don't really like the 3-bet just sort of auto did it (palm to the face), i meant as played when I gave the suggestion on how to play the hand.

i think 3-betting actually made it more difficult to figure out where i was at too, since i was unsure on their 3-bet calling ranges

I really dislike flatting pre with a caller already in and not closing the action