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Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long)

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  1. #1
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Default Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long)

    Let me preface this with a few things. First, I don't really think of this as a big deal, but I was talking to someone (I forget who, sorry) about it and they suggested I post it to see what people think. Second, this is actually how I think about things because I'm such a math spaz or something and I think about a lot of things with sometimes weird geometrical models because I can do it faster that way. Third, this is aimed towards people who have trouble with the combinatorics involved in thinking about hand ranges and equity calculations. This isn't really something that will help your poker in terms of figuring out ranges or anything like that -- it's just a tool that I find useful, and maybe other people will too.

    Holy crap this is long. Well, a lot of it is pictures, but I've got this at around 2000 words or something currently. Sorry for being so long, but I've tried to explain this in the best way possible where I don't sound like a total fucktard. If I sound like a fucktard anyway, then oh well, I've probably had more retarded posts than this before anyway.

    Okay so here's the deal. The possible combinations of hands can be represented rather easily using a 4×4 square matrix with the four rows and four columns representing the four suits of each hole card. Then the intersection of a row and column would be one card of one suit and another card of another suit. Here is a picture I’ve put together to demonstrate this idea:



    Suppose that we’re examining the hand ace-king. Here we’ll let the columns represent the four aces and the rows represent the four kings. Then the red cell represents the ace of clubs with the king of spades, the blue cell represents the ace of hearts with the king of clubs, and the green cell represents the ace of diamonds and king of diamonds. Obviously there are sixteen possible combinations, although it’s not important that we label the columns and rows in any particular order — knowing that all four aces and all four kings are available are enough for now.



    This second figure represents what happens when we’re dealing with a pocket pair and there are only six possible combinations. If this grid represents two aces, then here the red cell represents the ace of clubs with the ace of spades, and the blue cell represents the ace of diamonds with the ace of clubs. All of the impossible or double squares have been filled in with black here.

    Now that I’ve laid out the basic visualization for a single set of pocket cards, let's expand to something more useful: how to decide how many possible combinations of certain cards there are based on what cards are on the board and in our own pocket hand.

    Suppose we have KJ on a flop of KJ5, and we want to know how many available combinations there are of certain starting hands like AA, AK, QT, JJ, or 55. If we slightly alter how we think about our visualized grids, then we can answer all five of these in a couple of seconds combined without having to think very hard at all. Since I’m always looking for ways to make my thinking more efficient, this was particularly exciting for me.

    Let’s start by examining the answers for AA, JJ and 55. Later I'll get to unpaired hole cards. If you remember, our grid for pocket pairs was a sort of triangle made up of six squares in a sort of tilted pyramid, like the figure on the far left in this image:



    If you notice, I’ve dropped the labeling that showed which column and row represented each suit. I’ve done this because it’s completely irrelevant to this stage of our thinking.

    So we already know that for AA there are six possible combinations of cards because there aren’t any aces in our hand or on the board, and as I mentioned earlier, this is represented in the far left figure in the image. Now, when one of the possible cards comes up on the board or in our pocket hand, we have to eliminate it from our possibilities. Visually, we take away the right-hand column of the left-hand figure, and we’re left with the middle figure which indicates three possible combinations.

    The application for this is evident when we try to decide how many possible combinations there are for someone to have the pocket hand 55. We know that there are only three possible combinations of fives now because one of the fives has shown up on the board, and that this is represented by the middle figure in the image above. It follows that when we take away the right-hand column again, we’re left with only one possible combination. This is what our grid looks like when we try to decide how many possible combinations of JJ there are. Once you pause for a moment, it seems fairly obvious that there is only one possible combination of cards for someone to have JJ since there is one jack on the board and another in our pocket cards.

    This isn’t such a big deal when we’re trying to figure out the combinations for pocket pairs since there are only four possible scenarios, all of which are fairly trivial (6, 3, 1, or 0), but understanding how to manipulate the visual grid leads us to better understand how to manipulate our grid when dealing with unpaired pocket hands, which I'll get to now.

    Whenever we want to manipulate our visual grids for pocket hands that are not paired, we will also be removing columns and rows from the grid, but in a slightly different way. The best way to illustrate this is through example, so here we go.



    For whatever reason, let’s say we want to know how many combinations an opponent could have of QT. Figure 1 is what our visual grid of QT looks like preflop. Since all of the queens and all of the tens are available for use, we have a full 4×4 grid with 16 squares, which represents 16 possible combinations. Now suppose we have a flop of Q83, then Figure 2 is what our new visual grid of QT looks like. Since one of the queens is no longer available, we remove it from our visual grid, only leaving a 3×4 grid behind, or twelve combinations.



    With more complicated examples, the use of visual grid representations of pocket card combinations is equally as simple. Suppose we have KQ preflop, the flop comes KJT against one opponent, and for whatever reason we would like to know how many combinations of KJ there are. Figure 3 shows what our visual grid of KJ looks like preflop since we hold one of the kings. However, figure 4 is what our visual grid of KJ looks like after the flop. Since another king has come off on the flop, we remove another column from our visual grid, and since a jack has come as well, we remove a row. This leaves a 2×3 grid for KJ, indicating that six possible combinations are left.

    Now this use of grids is really just a quicker way for me to think of many hand combinations at once since I can just glance at the board and my own cards and know how many combinations of different hands there are. After you get used to thinking about this, you’ll start to know the more common spots by memory without having to use this visual device, but I think that imagining these grids is a fairly easy way to get in the habit.

    So how do you really use this stuff for something more useful? You apply it to your thinking when you’re comparing your hand against ranges, like when you're trying to calculate your equity against a range of hands. Extremely complicated examples probably aren't important here, but I'll do something a little more realistic than my simple examples before.

    I'm going to show some pictures and stuff, and the explanation of this example might seem sort of long, but the equity calculation can be figured to a pretty good accuracy in just a few seconds using this idea, it just takes some getting used to. Anyway, here we go.

    Also, another note. In the following example, I'm going to use the color green for the units that we "win" against and red for the units that we "lose" against. Don't worry if that makes no sense, I explain it more just a little lower.

    Suppose we have AKo on a flop of A93 rainbow, and we think our opponent's range is AA, 99, 33, AQ, AJ, A9. We know that we're basically drawing dead to AA/99/33, the grids for which look like the following:



    So that's seven units (or hand combinations) that we lose against since we're pretty much drawing dead to them all.

    Moving along, against AQ/AJ we are a pretty big favorite. Villain has three outs twice, or about 12% equity with either of these hands, and we know that the grids for each of these are 2x4 since there are two aces that we've seen (and we haven't seen any queens). So when we think of these 2x4 grids, we want to think of them as being about 12% "losing" and 88% "winning". We do this with approximation: we know that 1/8th is 12.5%, and that's close enough for us, so for each of AQ and AJ, we'll think of one of the units as being red, and the other seven as being green, as below:



    Finally, against A9 we have the crap end of the stick again, since it's us that is drawing to three outs twice, putting us at somewhere around 12.5%. The grid for A9 is 2x3 since we've seen two aces and one nine, so we'll think of one of the six units as being "winning" and the other five as being "losing". (Note that 1/6 is really 16.7%, but this will be close enough for our purposes). Here is what the grid for A9 looks like:



    So now that we've figured our equity with each hand (which we've put into groups that have similar equity for quick calculation), we simply count the "winning" units and compare them to the "losing" unites to have a good idea of our equity. There are 14 "losing" units, and 15 "winning" units, meaning that we have a very, very slight edge against this range. So what does PokerStove say?

    Board: Ah 9c 3s
    Dead:

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 51.111% 50.72% 00.39% 131067 999.00 { AKo }
    Hand 1: 48.889% 48.50% 00.39% 125325 999.00 { AA, 99, 33, AQs-AJs, A9s, AQo-AJo, A9o }
    In this example, I didn't include anything suit-specific for consideration because it's just an example of the idea in motion, but with some practice it comes fairly quickly. I pulled the range out of my ass, but you will have to decide on ranges for yourself based on what you know about your opponents and what has happened so far in the hand and hands before.

    If it seems overly complicated, it's not really. It's just a visual representation of an equity calculation. In all honesty, if you're used to doing equity calculations on any sort of regular basis where your intuition for it has been built up, I doubt you'll find much use for this since when situations arise you'll already have a good feeling for where you're at.
  2. #2
    my brain started to hurt. Not because its way over my head, but Im just not in a studious mood. However this seems like it could be very helpful to some people. Those people being the ones that benefit from graphic visualization.

    Nice write up.
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  3. #3
    this is actually a really good idea. A+
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  4. #4
    Nice post. I do something similar, but I am not as proficient at estimating villains' ranges as spoon. But I love the math geek approach and wish I were better at the poker side of it all.
  5. #5
    Chopper's Avatar
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    pretty solid idea, spoon.

    i dont think anything like this, but i can see how quickly you can approximate equity against ranges with this. this is a great way to speed up the process against the timers, imo, once we get the flow.

    i will have a bit of trouble putting it into practice, at first, but it seems simplistic enough that for a "visual memory," it cant be too bad with some commitment.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  6. #6
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb
    Nice post. I do something similar, but I am not as proficient at estimating villains' ranges as spoon. But I love the math geek approach and wish I were better at the poker side of it all.
    Estimating villains' ranges is a whole skill to itself, and is really separate from this. This is just a way to organize those ranges mentally and figure out the weight that each hand has.
  7. #7
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    forgot to add this....

    this would be best practiced in your HH reviews first. then, when more comfortable, applied in live fire.
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  8. #8
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    forgot to add this....

    this would be best practiced in your HH reviews first. then, when more comfortable, applied in live fire.
    I agree 100%.

    Eventually though, you won't need to think that specifically since you'll have a good feel for most spots, but it's a tool to help us along.
  9. #9
    Posts like these are what cause me to religiously return to this forum week after week. Nice job.
  10. #10
    This is great! I am not that great with numbers and this makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks
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  11. #11
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    Great post Spoon. I've always tended to work in "approximates", this is a really clear way to visualise things.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  12. #12
    when I first saw this post I thought
    What the %^&*&*"? But after reading it I am pretty impressed. I may have to play with this on one of my HH's and see how it will help.
    Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
  13. #13
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    its not easy against hands with redraws, tho, i can attest to that.

    spoon, i'd be interested in how you come up with this one.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

    MP3 ($5.25)
    CO ($5.45)
    Button ($8.40)
    SB ($6)
    BB ($14.60)
    UTG ($10.10)
    UTG+1 ($9.75)
    Hero ($10.50)
    MP2 ($7.55)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J, J.
    2 folds, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, MP3 raises to $0.9, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.50.

    Flop: ($1.95) 8, Q, A (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.2, MP3 raises to $2.4, Hero ??

    i look at all the things i could be against...TT+,AKo,AQs,KQs are the 3betting range, but we know about the Ac and Qc.

    i still see this as about 6 combos we beat outright, and 31 that have us drawing really thin. to me, thats a shitty position...indicating a clear fold to the minraise. however, pstove has us 56/43 dogs to this range. i thought it much worse.

    can you help me work through this, or is this too complex due to redraws against non-club AK etc?
    LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

    Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
  14. #14
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Okay here we go. Dude's got like $2 behind so if you decide to play you'll be spending another $3.20 or so to win about $7.30 since he's not folding. That's like 2:1, so let's decide if we have 33% equity here.

    First, let's understand how we fare against the most probable hands. Thinking in terms of equity stops any need to think about redraws, so here we go. Against an ace or a queen with no K, we're drawing to 11 outs twice, so we have about 44% (against AQ that would drop us to like 40%, but that's not going to happen often). Against the bare K with no ace or queen, we're dodging 11 outs twice (8 clubs and three kings), so we're about 56%. Against an ace or queen with the K, we're fucked at about 7-8% or so. Finally, against a set we're around 30-32% (a number I just *know*).

    So he 3-bet us preflop, which could probably indicate JJ+, AK, and maybe AQ. He raises our flop lead, which drops his range to something like AK, AQ, AA, QQ, 88, KK. This is how I would think about it using the idea I outlined in this post.

    There are nine combos of AK w/o the K and three that have the K; so that's 4 for us, 5 for him and then another 3 for him.

    There are nine combos of AQ and suits don't matter. I think AQ is less likely, so I'm going to discount this to 3 for him.

    There are three combinations of AA/QQ/88 each for a total of nine. I don't think we're seeing 88 very often here, so I'll discount this to six total with about 2 for us and 4 for him.

    There are three combinations of KK, so we'll give us 2 and him 1.

    This brings us to a total of 8 for us and 16 for him, or dead on about 33%.

    PokerStove agrees with our evaluation against this range:
    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 32.828% 32.83% 00.00% 9750 0.00 { JcJs }
    Hand 1: 67.172% 67.17% 00.00% 19950 0.00 { AA, KcKd, KcKh, KcKs, QQ, AQs+, AQo+ }
    So it really comes down to reads, if you want to fold in marginal spots, and if the range we put villain on is a good one. All of these are really skills that are outside of the scope of this post in a lot of ways.


    Edit: The point I forgot to make was that most of the time you can make a normal calculation based on your own outs and then adjust for redraws by raising or lowering that percentage a few points for whatever is necessary. If you play around with PokerStove you can get a feel for this fairly quickly. Backdoor flush draws, for example, usually give about 3-4% equity to the person that has it.
  15. #15
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    Spoon any chance you could fix the pictures at the start of this I'd like to read it. Thanks
  16. #16
    Is anyone else having trouble seeing the pictures? I just see x's
  17. #17
    yep , i can't see the initial pictures either
  18. #18
    i agree.... fix pictures plz
  19. #19
    nice_aiau's Avatar
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    I can see the pictures.
  20. #20
    nice_aiau's Avatar
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    actually, no i cant. The first lot are missing
    I quickly skimmed through it and ctrl+d. To look at this later tonight.

    This looks like its going to be a good tool for me though,
    thanks spoon
  21. #21

    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    In all honesty, if you're used to doing equity calculations on any sort of regular basis where your intuition for it has been built up, I doubt you'll find much use for this since when situations arise you'll already have a good feeling for where you're at.
    Though being kind of a math spaz myself, I don't really see the benefit of this approach. It doesn't appear to be something you can do quickly in an intuitive manner, and pokerstove is basically faster and more accurate; And like you said, running pokerstove a lot will get your intuition going.
  22. #22

    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    This seems to be a similar approach to how I've heard that some of the maths mental genius's describe their approach to difficult calculations in their head by visualizing the problem and thereby arriving at the solution.
  23. #23
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    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    Quote Originally Posted by jackvance
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    In all honesty, if you're used to doing equity calculations on any sort of regular basis where your intuition for it has been built up, I doubt you'll find much use for this since when situations arise you'll already have a good feeling for where you're at.
    Though being kind of a math spaz myself, I don't really see the benefit of this approach. It doesn't appear to be something you can do quickly in an intuitive manner, and pokerstove is basically faster and more accurate; And like you said, running pokerstove a lot will get your intuition going.
    It's just a visual way of calculating equity. If you can't do this quickly then you're not a math person.
  24. #24
    spoon? fix the pics at the beginning that are linked to your site. The imageshack ones are fine.
  25. #25

    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    It's just a visual way of calculating equity. If you can't do this quickly then you're not a math person.
    Depends what you mean by quickly.. the tricky part is ofcourse assigning a realistic hand range. A benefit I can see is that method allows you to do weighting very easily (if you only want to add 50% of AQ hands for example).
  26. #26
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    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    Quote Originally Posted by jyms
    spoon? fix the pics at the beginning that are linked to your site. Teh imageshack ones are find.
    Done... sorta.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackvance
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    It's just a visual way of calculating equity. If you can't do this quickly then you're not a math person.
    Depends what you mean by quickly..
    Under a second for smaller ranges, 2-3 seconds for larger ranges.
  27. #27
    I find this method very valuable. It kind of ties into the discussion about blockers also.

    Let's say I have two pair and my opponent I put 100% on either a set or an overpair. I beat the overpairs and the sets beat me - should I continue? It's important to know whether the set or the overpair is more likely. Let's say the board is T-high so 4 overpairs are possible (6 combinations each - total of 24 combinations) and of the 3 cards on the board 2 of them are paired with a card in my hand. This leaves 3 + 1 + 1 hand combinations of sets - total of 5. In this example my two-pair hand acts as a blocker for some of the sets but none of the overpairs.

    This method with practice allows you to do quick sanity checks on hand combinations for different parts of an opponent range and have them lend the correct weight to your decisions.

    Visualising it is just one way - but it's important to know this information on one level or another:
    Two unpaired cards have 16 combinations
    Two paired cards have 6 combinations
    Two unpaired offsuit cards have 12 combinations
    Two unpaired suited cards have 4 combinations
    Two unpaired cards with one blocker have 12 combinations
    Two unpaired cards with one blocker on each card value has 9 combinations
    Two suited cards with blockers for each card value of the same suit have 3 combinations

    etc etc - much easier than memorizing this whole litany of possible configurations is using something like what Spoonitnow described. It doesn't have to be graphical - I'm sure Spoon isn't thinking in colours - the mind can understand structure quite well.

    I'm not saying you have to do it the way Spoon suggests - but taking this kind of information is into account is something you HAVE to do - one way or another.
  28. #28
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erpel
    I'm not saying you have to do it the way Spoon suggests - but taking this kind of information is into account is something you HAVE to do - one way or another.
    This.
  29. #29
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    Thanks for fixing the pix spoon.

    Frikn nice post.
  30. #30
    Great post. 5 stars.
  31. #31
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    A non-visual way of thinking about this is listed here:

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...tc-t75711.html
  32. #32

    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    Under a second for smaller ranges, 2-3 seconds for larger ranges.
    Rainman? Hah j/k I wonder if I could do this quickly if I spend some hours/days training..
  33. #33
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    Default Re: Geometric Visualizations of Ranges/Equity (warning: long

    Quote Originally Posted by jackvance
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    Under a second for smaller ranges, 2-3 seconds for larger ranges.
    Rainman? Hah j/k I wonder if I could do this quickly if I spend some hours/days training..
    If you already know what you think your opponent's range is (which you always should), then calculating your approximate equity against that range (and various subranges) is not difficult at all.
  34. #34
    Very nice work spoon.
    This thread/approach focusses mostly on the handcombo's.

    Do you have/know of a similar thing for type of hands in a range?

    (much more like Robb's post a while back where he made a picture of handtypes and how they fit in different ranges. I just found that one not so practical, which could very well just be me, but these things are often personal)
  35. #35
    Time for a bump.

    Spoon, can you rehost the original pictures?
  36. #36
    kb coolman good call on the bump! Spoon plz do fix pix.
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  37. #37
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Nah, it wasn't that cool but at the time it had been about a year since I'd discovered hand combinations on my own and was totally tripping balls over the cool shit I could do with it randomly one day driving home from school if I thought of it as rectangles. You're not missing out on anything important, I promise lol.
  38. #38
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    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Nice bump. I'm doing my own variation of this... obviously because the man who decided to single handedly kill poker showed me how. There really is no reason for head explode... you just need to keep doing it for a while.

    What I do is, I think of a villains range as a bunch of collums, so broadways are

    AK KQ QJ JT
    AQ KJ QT
    AJ KT
    AT

    and then you just count and add... or you already know it because you did it a couple of times. I do it a little less visual as well, but it's the same concept.



    I'll try to incorperate the equity like spoon did here. That's pretty cool.
    But I think that might not be all that useful unless you're dealing with all-in situations.
    Last edited by oskar; 10-19-2010 at 06:33 PM.
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