Call or fold?

Some people want to be spoon fed.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Some people want to be spoon fed.

Nah, not at all. I understand why hoopy said those things, but others may not.

This sums up the BC to a T:

2) Respond to other people's threads, but ask more question instead of giving advice. Guess what: most of you are not really good enough to be giving that much advice. However, all of you are smart enough to ask questions and probe the depth of your knowledge. You'll learn way more from saying, "Why is it better to b/f this turn than c/c?" than saying "omg obv b/f EZ". It's quite embarrassing to see a guy who can't beat Xnl dropping strat advice all over the place. That's not meant to disparage guys who struggle at this limit, but know that a lot of people struggled at those limits before they learned to be good. You just have to have the right attitude--less about your own hands, less about being the first into a thread to drop advice, more about being the first one to ask the tough question that sparks debate..

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Some people want to be spoon fed.

Originally Posted by daviddem

Hoopy's answer is fair. OP (or other forum members for that matter) should do their homework,

I really hope these weren't directed at me?

I've freely admitted I don't fully have my head around the math involved in equity calculations but I am trying to learn it and get a good grasp on it.
I think I've done a reasonable job of trying to explain my thinking, such as it is, in the few hands I've posted and I've tried to show where I think I made mistakes. I don't just come on here expecting to be told exactly what to do in any situation without having thought about it first myself.
Believe it or not, I've actually read every article that people have linked to before the link has been posted. For example, putting someone on a range. It's great to read the article/thread, it's a whole different ball game to actually be able to do it, much less do it well. Therefore I ask questions regarding certain situations in order to try to learn better.

Forgive me and please do accept my sincere apologies if this type of behaviour is considered to be an example of wanting to be spoon fed and not having done any homework. I didn't realise one was supposed to only ask deeply intriguing and highly complex or analytical questions in the beginners circle.

Originally Posted by PKKFW

I really hope these weren't directed at me?

No.

Originally Posted by PKKFW

I really hope these weren't directed at me?

I've freely admitted I don't fully have my head around the math involved in equity calculations but I am trying to learn it and get a good grasp on it.
I think I've done a reasonable job of trying to explain my thinking, such as it is, in the few hands I've posted and I've tried to show where I think I made mistakes. I don't just come on here expecting to be told exactly what to do in any situation without having thought about it first myself.
Believe it or not, I've actually read every article that people have linked to before the link has been posted. For example, putting someone on a range. It's great to read the article/thread, it's a whole different ball game to actually be able to do it, much less do it well. Therefore I ask questions regarding certain situations in order to try to learn better.

Forgive me and please do accept my sincere apologies if this type of behaviour is considered to be an example of wanting to be spoon fed and not having done any homework. I didn't realise one was supposed to only ask deeply intriguing and highly complex or analytical questions in the beginners circle.

Fair enough, but now take your hand and apply the method described in this thread to it. Even if you cannot put your opponent on a precise range, you will soon realize that even if his range was tight it would warrant a call. Please do the actual calculations and post them here in this thread. We'll help with the math if you have difficulties. Actually doing this regularly helps tremendously to develop a feel for similar situations, which you can use at the tables. Also next time you have a similar situation, you can do the calcs in your OP and then all that remains to be discussed is whether the range you put him on is correct or not.

Originally Posted by daviddem

Fair enough, but now take your hand and apply the method described in this thread to it. Even if you cannot put your opponent on a precise range, you will soon realize that even if his range was tight it would warrant a call. Please do the actual calculations and post them here in this thread. We'll help with the math if you have difficulties. Actually doing this regularly helps tremendously to develop a feel for similar situations, which you can use at the tables. Also next time you have a similar situation, you can do the calcs in your OP and then all that remains to be discussed is whether the range you put him on is correct or not.

Ok.........

1: Bet size/(bet size + pot size)

The way I see it....

7.40/(7.40 + 13.15) = 36%


2: The poker stove calculations -

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.014% 54.45% 03.57% 151959394 9960364.00 { AcKd }
Hand 1: 41.986% 38.42% 03.57% 107225430 9960364.00 { 22+, A8s+, KTs+, QJs, A9o+, KJo+ }

So as has been said before, I certainly had the equity to call and should have. Even if he only shoves with KK+ and AK I still have the equity to call. Any which way you want to slice and dice the numbers it was an oh so obvious call.

So do we even consider the fact that we only have a sample of 24 hands on the guy? Sure he is looking like a complete maniac fish at this stage but over only 24 hands can we really make any sort of true determination of his range?

Now, in this particular situation with the amounts involved we have the equity to call almost no matter what so that's settled. But what if the situation/amounts were different? Do we look at the 24 hands and decide this guy must be a fool, assign a relatively large range to him and call or do we err on the side of caution and fold?

Obviously each situation is different and there is no straight answer to those questions. It was these questions regarding my sample size that really drove me to ask here in the first place but I didn't really make that clear in my OP.