Sorry - my point was to ask about calling a shove. I see now where I confused everyone.Originally Posted by kmind
yep. not sure if you are trying to come off as ass but you do: "I 3-bet AK at donkstakes (NL25 and below), and villain shoves all-in. I would call preflop with AK:" and then you left out a part in your quote "My point is to find out how often (say, over 5k hands) people find themselves able to shove with AK pre at donkstakes. Given your typical villains, how often can/do you shove with AK, given the above preflop action?"ORLY?as stated in the OP we are calling.
What I've found, and what folks like Drew seem to believe, is that it's VERY RARELY right to call an all-in 4-bet shove with AK at donk stakes. I ended up doing this twice over the weekend. Both were cases where there were multiple players in the pot and I was hoping (based on HUD reads) that a 3-bet with AK would fold the table. Got rr'd all-in by short stack (both times) with everyone else folding. So I'm sitting there with dead money on the table and nearly 3 to 1 on my bet, so I called. Lost both hands to AA.
And this was the point of my thread. At donk stakes, I think an all-in 4-bet pre means AA or KK. Almost certainly. So if I haven't made everyone too aggravated, my next question is this.
If we're going to fold AK to 4-bets, how often should we 3-bet?
It's been my experience that a lot of NL10 players will call a 3-bet with hands as bad as 88, AJ or Ax sooted. But they shove all-in over the top with AA or KK. I wonder what others think. To summarize:
1. It's almost never right to call a 4-bet shove (without great read)
2. It's often +EV to play AK for a 3-bet
3. So under what conditions should we be 3-betting AK pre?
A 3-bet is going to cost 10 - 15 BB minimum, depending upon the preflop raise and number of callers. And we'll lose that bet if we autofold to a 4-bet. So I need to know that villains' preflop 3-bet calling range plus my fold equity covers a wide enough range. I need to win enough from preflop folds and postflop vs. weaker hands to cover the times I have to fold to a 4-bet. So what's the range? What minimum range and characteristics must villain have before 3-betting him makes sense?
Sorry, if this isn't helping others, much. It's helping me. I've learned that I can't "autobet" good hands, that I have to a plan for the hand that includes any potential raises/rr's behind me on this round and all action on the next round. Betting good hands in general is the correct thing to do, especially at donk stakes, but I need to have some idea of Plan A (where I want the hand to go), Plan B (what to do if a villain plays back), and Plan C (dealing with anything else surprising that might happen).
So I've been working on playing AK in raised pots, and trying to refine which villains I will attack, which I will call, and when it might be prudent to lay it down. Any advice mucho appreciated.
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