aces and aces and reads - 25nl thinking

so overpairs are sometimes only one pair, and sometimes they're the uber-nuts. A few hands from the last day or two. None of these were hands that occupied more than 1/2 a second on any decision cos all decisions were trivial. Right?

exhibit a:
villain is 45-3 over 100 with 78% fold to c-bet and has never raised a c-bet. ez game?
Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($35.51)
UTG+1 ($41.26)
MP1 ($11)
Hero (MP2) ($39.80)
CO ($13.20)
Button ($17.79)
SB ($8.75)
BB ($17.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, A
3 folds, Hero bets $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.05) J, 3, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, Button raises to $6.25, Hero da fuckin' snap folds

Total pot: $4.85 | Rake: $0.24


exhibit 2:
villain is 46-0 over 40 and i've been hammering on him and playing a bunch of pots. He never has anything cos he's a fish and wants a cheap showdown with his 97 or whatever he has

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($42.32)
MP2 ($24.25)
MP3 ($30.39)
CO ($25.60)
Button ($27.03)
SB ($16.71)
BB ($18.05)
Hero (UTG) ($35.98)
UTG+1 ($22.37)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.85, 7 folds, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80) 9, 5, 4 (2 players)
BB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $2.50, BB calls $2.25

Turn: ($6.80) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB calls $6

River: ($18.80) K (2 players)
BB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $19.55,


exhibit 3:
villain is reg who probably wins when i'm not around. He's 14-12 but he has 80% fold to 3b so he hates me... and he called my overbet shove once when i had overs + gutshot or something and he never seems to have forgotten it. Absolutely standard imo.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($25)
BB ($46.83)
UTG ($31.38)
UTG+1 ($27.68)
MP1 ($9.26)
MP2 ($11.01)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($29.34)
Button ($23.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
4 folds, MP3 bets $1.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4.20, 1 fold, MP3 calls $2.95

Flop: ($8.90) K, 8, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $6.50, Hero calls $6.50

Turn: ($21.90) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $14.30 (All-In),

exhibit 4:
villain is 21-2 over 250 and 75% fold to cbet. Doesn't get much easier than this
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($54.96)
MP3 ($24.75)
CO ($16.30)
Button ($21.52)
SB ($38.98)
BB ($24.57)
Hero (UTG) ($51.56)
UTG+1 ($8.75)
MP1 ($30.74)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.85, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.85, 4 folds

Flop: ($2.05) 9, 5, K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, MP3 calls $1.40

Turn: ($4.85) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP3 raises to $6, Hero folds

Total pot: $10.85 | Rake: $0.54


exhibit 5:
villain is 55-13 and i've obviously been extremely active with position on him. He has a decent aggro going on.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($31.55)
UTG ($24.63)
UTG+1 ($24.65)
MP1 ($43.14)
MP2 ($44.06)
MP3 ($34.52)
Hero (CO) ($26.70)
Button ($25)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A
3 folds, MP2 bets $1, MP3 calls $1, Hero raises to $4.50, 3 folds, MP2 calls $3.50, MP3 calls $3.50

Flop: ($13.85) K, 3, 8 (3 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $8, MP2 calls $8, 1 fold

Turn: ($29.85) 2 (2 players)
MP2 bets $29.85, Hero easiest snap in the world for $14.20 nh sir withou your flush draw or KQ or whatever(All-In)

MP2 ($54.96)
MP3 ($24.75)
CO ($16.30)
Button ($21.52)
SB ($38.98)
BB ($24.57)
Hero (UTG) ($51.56)
UTG+1 ($8.75)
MP1 ($30.74)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.85, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.85, 4 folds

Flop: ($2.05) 9, 5, K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, MP3 calls $1.40

Turn: ($4.85) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP3 raises to $6, Hero folds

Total pot: $10.85 | Rake: $0.54

Why? He never does that with AK? KQ?

1, 2, and 5 look good.

Hand 4 I might call the turn min-raise, since the pot is so small, but not sure that's right.

Hand 3 I'd prefer a b/3b or c/r otf. Of course you're committed ott but shoving the flush card turns your hand into a bluff a little bit.

Originally Posted by daviddem

Why? He never does that with AK? KQ?

AA on K599 vs uber-passive's turn min-raise.

so, we can fold, call or raise. I think we can discount 3-betting the turn. Fold and the hand is over. So that leaves calling. What's our river plan after we call here? Like, it seems that we're only calling $3, but what are we really doing?

ok, time for some optimism
AA - 1 combo
AK - 6 combos
KK - 3 combos
K9 - 6 combos
99 - 1 combo
55 - 3 combos

now, if you want we can add in KQs - 3 combos

Originally Posted by couriermike

Hand 4 I might call the turn min-raise, since the pot is so small,

turn plan?

I like hands 1, 2, 4 and 5. But hand 3 confuses me.

Why did check the flop? Do you expect him to bet a much wider range of hands than he would call with, due to the K on the board?

And the turn shove -- what do you think he will call with? AcKx will probably call. I don't know what else would stick around from his range. AcQc, AcJc (do you think he has that in his range here?). Anything else?

lol @ hand 2.

1 - std
2 - std and facepalm if he has 2pair.
3 - I like it, even regs call KQ IP vs 3bets especially with a dynamic. He's never folding AK, KQ and probably calls pretty often with QcQx (maybe AcQx trying own you some how :S). There's enough combos of AK alone even with blocks to make this profitable I believe (too lazy to count).
4- possible he has Kx but seems fine.
5 - snap and lol when he has Kc2c

Originally Posted by NightGizmo

Hand 3 confuses me.

Why did check the flop? Do you expect him to bet a much wider range of hands than he would call with, due to the K on the board?

And the turn shove -- what do you think he will call with? AcKx will probably call. I don't know what else would stick around from his range. AcQc, AcJc (do you think he has that in his range here?). Anything else?

Look at the read: this a tagg-reg who folds too much (redundant?), but who gets his knickers in a twist when facing Daven's aggression. Checking on this board which is pretty dry, even with the flush draw, allows this villain to get chips in the pot in an attempt to "steal it" from Daven. Sure, he's calling with AK and probably a few other combos, but he'll consider betting KQ, QQ and maybe even AQ/AJ if he thinks Daven caught air.

For the turn, it's not really a shove. At this point, it's just a 2/3 psb which gives villain 2.5 to 1 pot odds on his turn call. Daven's never folding here, so he offers the juiciest incentives possible for Villain to donate to Daven's little slice of the poker economy.

Originally Posted by Robb

Look at the read: this a tagg-reg who folds too much (redundant?), but who gets his knickers in a twist when facing Daven's aggression. Checking on this board which is pretty dry, even with the flush draw, allows this villain to get chips in the pot in an attempt to "steal it" from Daven. Sure, he's calling with AK and probably a few other combos, but he'll consider betting KQ, QQ and maybe even AQ/AJ if he thinks Daven caught air.

For the turn, it's not really a shove. At this point, it's just a 2/3 psb which gives villain 2.5 to 1 pot odds on his turn call. Daven's never folding here, so he offers the juiciest incentives possible for Villain to donate to Daven's little slice of the poker economy.

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't questioning the play -- I was just trying to make sure I fully understood it.

Originally Posted by NightGizmo

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't questioning the play -- I was just trying to make sure I fully understood it.

Might be shooting a bit high, here. I'm not sure Daven fully understands Daven, sometimes.

Dude, sorry but hand 3 is atrocious. So I get the flop check if you want to get fancy vs that guy, but his fold to 3bet is %80, meaning he actually has a hand now, so why not just cbet there yourself.

And the donk on the turn puts me in WTFland...looks like you are trying some sick leveling game with this dude who probably isn't on a level that you can sick level him. Get what I'm saying. Just bet bet there, or if u want c/c, c/c.

Originally Posted by DBRose

Dude, sorry but hand 3 is atrocious. So I get the flop check if you want to get fancy vs that guy, but his fold to 3bet is %80, meaning he actually has a hand now, so why not just cbet there yourself.

And the donk on the turn puts me in WTFland...looks like you are trying some sick leveling game with this dude who probably isn't on a level that you can sick level him. Get what I'm saying. Just bet bet there, or if u want c/c, c/c.

hand 3 villain snap-called AJo allin on the turn
hand 3 he's checking back any club in his range on the turn, and fucked if i'm giving him the river for free on a 3-flush board
max value?

ok, so it worked out well for you that time, but I think you're being a bit results oriented. I still think bet bet is the best line there. Most opponents are not going to snap call with AJo in a spot like that and besides you should be looking at his range vs your range etc.

Also, is he inclined to bet this flop a lot? what if he checks back a hand like AJcc, QJcc, etc?? If you say he is going to bet, then your logic of him checking back a single club on the turn is pretty flawed, because he'd probably jam with those hands.

hand 1: good fold
hand 2: jamtastic
hand 3: I'll have to try that some time.
hand 4: - someone doubted this: if it's a mr on the flop, I suggest doing a dance and figuring óut how to extract the most from Kx. vs call flop, turn minraise this really is a trivial fold. This is just based on experience with super loose passive fish.
hand 5: snapadoodles.

Originally Posted by DBRose

besides you should be looking at his range vs your range etc.

ok, so how strong does my range look when i bet bet bet after 3-betting pre on a K high board? go back to 2p2?

Originally Posted by DBRose

Also, is he inclined to bet this flop a lot?

lfdo why the fuck else would i check. I may not be the smartest guy, but fuck...

Originally Posted by DBRose

then your logic of him checking back a single club on the turn is pretty flawed, because he'd probably jam with those hands.

nope, he knows how to buy a free card etc and knows i'm probably gonna feel pot-committed so why bluff?

Originally Posted by daven

ok, so how strong does my range look when i bet bet bet after 3-betting pre on a K high board? go back to 2p2?


lfdo why the fuck else would i check. I may not be the smartest guy, but fuck...


nope, he knows how to buy a free card etc and knows i'm probably gonna feel pot-committed so why bluff?

ok, then you obviously had a superread on this dude. well played. i'll keep my 2p2 thoughts to myself next time.

OK, so this is mega-results oriented, but I haven't played much poker in a while and it felt good:

Originally Posted by Robb

...he'll consider betting KQ, QQ and maybe even AQ/AJ if he thinks Daven caught air....

From what I remember, 25nl 3bet pots turn into their own little meta-game with the different regs, and you can get a super-solid read on them sometimes.

nh, daven

Originally Posted by daven

lfdo why the fuck else would i check. I may not be the smartest guy, but fuck...

looooooooool

I like this thread a lot. It's a great way to check logic against a better player.

fwiw, I think that in the absence of sick meta/reads, then dbrose is right about hand 3. When an 80% fold to 3b decides to make a stand they normall have a hand, it's nice to have AA that time around

Cool thread.

How many hands did you have on villain in hand 3? Takes a lot of hands to get an accurate number for fold the 3b stat