25nl 6max - kind of a weird spot I got into

Villain in this hand is 28/28 over 105 hands and is a regular, with a 47% ATS and a 14% 3bet.

All of his 3betting has taken place from the blinds besides one 3bet he made earlier in position. He has also played very aggressive so far postflop cbetting+following up frequently.

So I'm seriously 1 tabling right now and notice he just lost an all in vs a fish who shoved A2o preflop and stacked his JJ. Since then (just a few hands) I've noticed his timing has been faster (like insta doing everything).

I felt it was an OK time to 4bet preflop just given the game flow, as I expect him to have air here a huge % of the time, so I'm not really interested in preflop (although in a way I guess I am) because I'm a bit stumped on his flatting range here. His 3bet is also really lol big and it looks alot like he's just trying to end the hand preflop.

For what its worth, he TANK flats my 4bet...not really sure what to make of this. I feel like if he had the nuts he would be pretty excited to just jam all in, so I suspect some weaker holdings are possibly in his range (i.e. bways, maybe some SC?)

So on to the flop given this info, I think check behind is an option and is certainly fine (ideal against almost anyone) but I'm thinking perhaps a gay bet to induce might be better? Or maybe I'm just severely over thinking this + not giving him enough credit for calling preflop. Keep in mind this hand was played at 3:45 AM.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($9.75)
CO ($69.90)
Hero (Button) ($27)
SB ($25.70)
BB ($54.50)
UTG ($26.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 8
3 folds, Hero bets $0.75, SB raises to $3.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $7, SB calls $3.75

Flop: ($14.25) 10, 8, 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?

preflop appears pretty marginal to me, wouldnt we want to widen our value 4bet range against a guy who is tilted and pretty trigger happy with his 3bets, including like TT+, and AQ (i dont even know what standard preflop 3 or 4b value ranges are at 6max)? it depends on what you think his tilt will do to him reacting to our 4bet, which could be one of four things:
- nothing at all
- call 4bets wider = 4bet wider for value
- 3b light because he's pissed off and 'coz he can/fold to 4bet because you must have a hand = 4bet standard value range and add in some bluffs
- 5bet jam higher % of 3bet range because he's a monkey = 4bet/call wider value range.

my first thought when i read your reads, background, gameflow etc was to widen our 4bet range considerably with intentions of stacking off, although maybe thats not the right way to approach it? if i thought that 4bet bluffing was the right adjustment, i'd prefer like Axs, KQs type hands, but again thats me.
as played the flop becomes pretty tough. if we assume he jams QQ+ a decent % pre then our hand isnt in too bad shape vs a range of pairs, pretty picture cards and maybe suited A's/K's, especially if we can ever induce some spazz from bricked overcards or whatever. i'm pretty stumped by his 4bet calling range too though, seeing as we are basing our play of the whole hand based on assumptions that he is playing in a nonstandard way, it's hard to really think of a range.

ok maybe i thought way too far into how tilted this guy is haha.

I know preflop is bad but try to ignore that

pretend I have A8 instead of 87, in fact maybe I should just change that in the hh so the focus is on flop.

I think either way Ax mostly jams pre?? I mean certainly AK wouldn't flat oop, AQ is possible, as with AA so having A8 will block AQ and AA but certainly AA isn't going to flat pre all the time so in reality we're worried about (just randomly throwing this number out there) 3 combo's of AA (and this would be even less if we block Ax hands).

Also why would KK flat and risk facing that dreaded Axx flop is something to keep in mind - most players aren't going to want to have to deal with that oop in a 4bet pot afaik.

I feel like a huge part of his range is just stupid suited gappers and shit or weak bways that considered 5bet jamming as a bluff (hence the TANK pre) but then realized my 4bet wasn't much larger than 2x his raise so decides to call and attempt to be a playmaster oop in a pot with an SPR less than 2.

:/

hmm. its just so tough because any range i attempt to put this guy on is so speculative. i think you make a few good points there though, if he ever has Ax in this hand i think he jams it pre, because he is OOP and A8,A9,AJ,AQ high or whatever doesnt play too well on bricked flops with an SPR of <2. KK,QQ,AA i assume would all jam pre a decent % because he wants to stack you and you have 4bet him, so you probably like your hand (have you any 4bet history?), plus they (2 of them) become hard to play on Axx flops. thing is, i just cant see him putting more chips in the pot postflop with like 77 or 66 in this pot (which is all we beat really), unless we have reads that we can induce some spazz in some way so his shove range becomes weak. i prefer to check it back here. that way we get another piece of info about villains range because he has to act on a turn card. betting this flop just feels spewy to me without reads that he will tiltjam bricked overs. the only draws he can really have are JQ, J9, 79s.

was the last part of that post edited in or did i just miss it? if his range is so wide, with suited gappers and broadways, whats our line? he never feels like he's good here with Q high or K high, so what line is most likely to convince him to jam? gaybet flop or check the flop and hand him a noose for the turn?

Originally Posted by rpm

if his range is so wide, with suited gappers and broadways, whats our line?

not saying i disagree with your range - i'm lost - but hypothetically how do you proceed to get value from such a range

In general I think it's a good flop for you after he checks. It really just depends on how villian sees you at this point. The hands you really fear are TT, QQ+ because you have no FE so think about how he plays that part of his range oop. Most players are checking this range if they see you as agro but opening if they think you're tight because they beat even a tight players range. It sounds like you have been aggro in button blind battles, so I'd give him credit.
Now if only you didn't mention that he was tilting.

Interesting little quandary you got yourself into here, M. His tanking + tilting leads me to believe he has a wide flatting range. You've included SCs and broadways in his calling range which he very well may have. I've also noticed that tilted players at 25NL like to setmine (for some crazy reason) in spots like this where they REALLY shouldn't be setmining. They're tilting and hoping to get lucky.

Given a range of a lot of SCs, broadways, and perhaps underpairs, I like a small bet looking to induce a shove. I personally feel that a $4-$5 bet would do the trick. He may see it as a cheap bluff and choose to shove gutshots, overcards, and pocket pairs (thinking you may have overcards here).

I defo wouldn't bet this flop, you're just folding out too many worse hands that he will likely be volatile enough to bluff with if you check and you're getting called by all better.

Id rather bluff catch here since he likely gets QQ-AA in preflop and has more combos of AQ, AJ, KQ, random crap like 86s than 99-JJ. I think check flop to call turn shove > check flop to fold turn > bet flop.

Originally Posted by FlyingSaucy

Now if only you didn't mention that he was tilting.

yeah see being suspicious of him being on tilt a bit from getting stacked by that fish has me unsure of wtf he's doing.

Could he be tilted enough to have AT in his 4 bet calling range? Smells like a combination of jts,qjs,kjs?? and AA. Problem is that if you bet he fold everything you beat. I can't think of anything he calls with except two overs cause he is so tiled. But if he is that tilted he can really have such a huge range that you might as well bet.

P.S. I thought you weren't going to be in Amsterdam, cause you seem to be playing !luck poker here, which is teribad...

Originally Posted by !Luck

Could he be tilted enough to have AT in his 4 bet calling range? Smells like a combination of jts,qjs,kjs?? and AA. Problem is that if you bet he fold everything you beat. I can't think of anything he calls with except two overs cause he is so tiled. But if he is that tilted he can really have such a huge range that you might as well bet.

P.S. I thought you weren't going to be in Amsterdam, cause you seem to be playing !luck poker here, which is teribad...

you are certainly correct. if he's tilted enough to have random garbage in his flatting range, Tx hands must be in there.

I understand he can fold everything I beat if I bet, but he can also shove with overcards which we'll have about 65-70% equity against.

lol, I leave tomorrow so hopefully the FPS I get playing small stakes will be gone when I return.

Poor hand choice pre, I think you pretty much always have the best hand now so I'd bet small and call a shove.

Originally Posted by meeloche

Poor hand choice pre, I think you pretty much always have the best hand now so I'd bet small and call a shove.

3 hands that are better to do this with please? I'm not arguing at all just want to know if what I'm thinking is correct. Thanks my man.

M2M, this spot and ones like it are one of the problems I cause myself a lot. I don't even mind the preflop hand choice, as I think he's folding to this 4b 80% of the time or more. Now, you've got 5 outs to beat whatever hands he has that beat you, and some fold equity. I like meeloche's line.

Of course, I've been away from poker for 5 months, so big grain of salt imo.