Russians vs. Americans: A Werewolf Game for October 2015

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I don't just want this to improve my wolf game. I want to improve the wolf game against me as well. I'd love to be completely turned around by a wolf team like I have been in the past.

well private dens isnt going to do that.

our issue is that most of us like being villagers and dont like being wolves. this is what causes us to play differently in the game thread.

the issue is only strategic on the margins. try this: can you name the strategic things that me/boog/monstr/daven did that aided the win? there were a couple and they were important, but i would be surprised if anybody even remembers them. also the real mover of that wolf victory wasn't the strategy (even though i do like to pat myself on the back for one specific thing that paid off well), it was instead basically all about daven and boog wimming in the game thread. the guys were fighters and that's why they won

Guys we're in serious danger here of forgetting what's important...

That everyone thought I was a villager.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Why's that?

Same reason ong thinks posting it would make me a cunt.

I don't think it would make you a cunt really, I was just stoking the fire.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I don't think it would make you a cunt really, I was just stoking the fire.

How much do you want me to post a link? Be honest.

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

How much do you want me to post a link? Be honest.

I would not be amused.

Not in the slightest.

I'm gonna laugh so hard next time baudib gets killed as wolf and leaves a great stinking trail that takes down his whole team... except the one who was smart enough to bus him.

The villagers have had a strong run, but the wolves were running the show for a bit there, too.

There's back and forth, whether or not the wolf chat is shared.

I tend to agree with the notion that wolf chat should be shared. The argument that it gives the wolves more freedom is lost on me. No one is the same from game to game. If you think this game isn't about growth and dynamic play, then it's lost on me.

I share my reads with people after the games are over if they ask. I'm not afraid of the challenge to play a stronger version of my friend in the future games. It's not like poker. I'm not really trying to beat them. I'm just trying to win against a strong, competitive field. I don't understand why anyone here wouldn't want the same. There's nothing on the line. A tougher challenge is excellent.

I am confused as to how BID is against this, when he guards his "tells" on people so closely. I'd think he'd be in favor of letting people guard their own tells.

Wuf:
I don't have any trouble reading you. We were V/V in Hoopy and Luco's games and you barely posted and I knew you were a villager. In your last two wolf games I led the lynch on you and correctly found your team due to your D1 shenanigans (and we would have won had Ong not hard-defended BooG all game) and then insta-called out your seer claim as B.S. and POEd your entire team 60 posts into the game. I've also won as many wolf games on FTR as you have (2).

Your reads have been hilariously bad for quite a while, your strongest most consistent "never a wolf" reads have in fact turned out to be wolves. You won this game because Gabe was great and a bunch of people who had never played on this site provided clear outstanding village leadership.

play better.

glgl

Keeping the den private was definitely worth it just for this epic postgame.

speaking of which, Keith you crusty c***, you should come back and play. I knew you were reading this game.

On POG when we had the Challenge Cup or whatever it was in July, we were playing 5-6 turbos a night. We had a very small group of players, maybe 20, with about 5-6 in every single game.

Historically turbos have run very close to 50-50, but during this time the village was winning about 75% of the time. It was pretty obvious why: Everyone was extremely attuned to everyone else's meta as well as their tricks as wolves. If you have the same village core over and over and over and several pairings of people who read each other correctly 90%+ of the time (examples were the baes, JCohen-Me, Younguns and Vagos) you basically have the game solved.

A similar thing is happening here. First off, several people have evolved their villager styles to be so clear and consistent (Me, Rilla, Luco, JKDS are the best examples) that it's easy to see when they're slightly different. The only people who have been decent as wolves recently are Gabe, Luco, Ong, MMM, BooG, Rascal but they've still lost more than they've won.

I thought Rilla was just being annoying honestly but I think he has a valid point. Doing things to bro out for the wolves while not upsetting game balance at all and giving some protection for their future games is worth doing.

A n0 for the wolves to strategize, a closed den for them to share all their ideas, these things prob don't move the needle more than 1% but they don't hurt.

I thought this game was reasonably balanced and if anything, somewhat pro-wolf (although having an ITA session in a game this small is definitely pro-villa).

I think having some of the off-siters who are great wolves (TTT, Beck, PNAW, BATM) on the other team would have been interesting.

Ong, would you have preferred the role blocker or role cop in this game?

TTT gives the wolves a RB in this setup. One of the many interesting dynamics of this setup is that the wolves role blocking the village poisoner is not a good idea.

Seems like we dont have a strong village core then, we just have a bunch of players that are open books. Thats not necessarily the player's fault either (modding gives great info)

Solutions though...
- New players helps, fewer open books
- New playstyles could help longterm (but it may result in a lynch that game)
- Have a game where meta reads are less valuable...like anonymous or alpha ww.

What else?

p.s. for future game designers, giving the village an angel, full seer and vig vs. 3-4 wolves is overpowered. Turncoat/traitor roles also suck.

Originally Posted by baudib

Wuf:
I don't have any trouble reading you. We were V/V in Hoopy and Luco's games and you barely posted and I knew you were a villager. In your last two wolf games I led the lynch on you and correctly found your team due to your D1 shenanigans (and we would have won had Ong not hard-defended BooG all game) and then insta-called out your seer claim as B.S. and POEd your entire team 60 posts into the game. I've also won as many wolf games on FTR as you have (2).

dude you don't even remember these games correctly. you never led a lynch on me in either game and i was never wolf with ong and boog. nobody in any of the games found any member of my team due to my "shenanigans". in the first game, the other wolves won partly because of my shenanigans (but mostly their rigorous play) and the second game was locked in for village win so much that we were messing around on purpose before d2 even started.

Your reads have been hilariously bad for quite a while, your strongest most consistent "never a wolf" reads have in fact turned out to be wolves.

why is it so hard for you to understand how this game is played? i am NEVER serious that the player is "never a wolf". probabilistically even the best of the best reads by anybody are wrong a high percentage of the time.

you have total disregard for any style that is unlike your own. you can only see the first tree on the edge of an entire forest. i play off how im perceived big time. you act in such a way that shows how naive about the game you are. you denigrate villagers with stupid shit like "kami is spew cleared" when the fact is that nobody here even has any clue what she looks like when she's "spew cleared" in the first place. you completely disregard endgame construction. back when you had never even heard of this game, our villages were winning loads of games through our attention to the macro effects of lynches decisions and play style. all you do is see a villager not lynch a wolf on d1 then scream how bad he is. maybe you're better at winning games in the early game, but if we want the highest probability of winning, it needs to not focus on just trying to win early.

you lol at me for defending aubrey, but the truth is that was one of the best things i could have done in the situation. i knew that doing so would basically put her in my pocket if she's a wolf. you lol at me for my poison picks, but the truth is that it would have been disaster for the village to leave them alive since they were so untethered and hard to pin down.

You won this game because Gabe was great and a bunch of people who had never played on this site provided clear outstanding village leadership.

that was incredibly important. if i had somehow gotten nommed n1 you would have said how badly i play special and if there hadnt been a backup you would have blamed any village loss on me.

play better.

there's a mass of organic tissue between your ears. use it.

Wuf
in varcher you were a wolf with BooG and you got lynched for trying to protect him, I had the key vote in the lynch. Ong hard-defended BooG the entire game.

In the game you were wolves with Luco and Ong, I correctly POEd all three as the most likely wolves literally 60 posts into the game. Your team was in such shit all three of you fake claimed and bussed and I called B.S. on your claim.

Your assertion that I can't read you is simply ludicrous. I haven't been wrong on you for many many games.

No one understands the probabilistic nature of the game more than me, that's why my %s are always like 20%-50% instead of using absolutes.

you have total disregard for any style that is unlike your own. you can only see the first tree on the edge of an entire forest. i play off how im perceived big time. you act in such a way that shows how naive about the game you are. you denigrate villagers with stupid shit like "kami is spew cleared" when the fact is that nobody here even has any clue what she looks like when she's "spew cleared" in the first place. you completely disregard endgame construction. back when you had never even heard of this game, our villages were winning loads of games through our attention to the macro effects of lynches decisions and play style. all you do is see a villager not lynch a wolf on d1 then scream how bad he is. maybe you're better at winning games in the early game, but if we want the highest probability of winning, it needs to not focus on just trying to win early.

This is obviously not true because A. no one plays like me and I have high regard for many people B. the people I have the highest regard for are people like Tom, Gabe, Gator and I can't comprehend their play styles AT ALL.

the mechanics of this game simply provide incredible evidence that at least one of Ship/Kami was a villager, the entire wolf team spews her a villager, she had reasonably good reads and it was terrible for the village to let her die.

that was incredibly important. if i had somehow gotten nommed n1 you would have said how badly i play special and if there hadnt been a backup you would have blamed any village loss on me.

lol no. If you had gotten nommed n1 I would have said it was because you were playing well.

anyway, I take it back. never change Wuf

get in this game, needs 3 more. starts Monday. Uncle Dynamite is one of the best mods ever.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...59/index2.html

Originally Posted by baudib

Wuf
in varcher you were a wolf with BooG and you got lynched for trying to protect him, I had the key vote in the lynch. Ong hard-defended BooG the entire game.

my lynch was baked into the game from the first ten posts. it was the game after i had rallied to lynch fake angel rascal who turned out to be real angel. people wanted their revenge and it's a damn miracle that i survived d1. rilla was the main driver of my lynch. you were certainly on it. my defense of boog didnt matter whatsoever for my death. i dont even remember defending him other than a terribad vote flip to gabe d1 that saved boog. i knew it was terrible at the time but it had to be done and i was quite surprised that nobody really even much vocalized the fact that i would have never flipped to gabe like that as a villager.

In the game you were wolves with Luco and Ong, I correctly POEd all three as the most likely wolves literally 60 posts into the game.

yeah? and? that shit really does not matter. the amount of times a villager correctly identifies the wolves early yet by the end has a different idea is off the charts.

Your team was in such shit all three of you fake claimed and bussed and I called B.S. on your claim.

we were in such shit because of the mechanics.

This is obviously not true because A. no one plays like me and I have high regard for many people B. the people I have the highest regard for are people like Tom, Gabe, Gator and I can't comprehend their play styles AT ALL.

i get it, you like optical moderates.

the mechanics of this game simply provide incredible evidence that at least one of Ship/Kami was a villager, the entire wolf team spews her a villager, she had reasonably good reads and it was terrible for the village to let her die.

but not everybody knows this. that's the problem. leaving either of them alive would come back and bite the village in the ass in a late game situation where they would revert to lynching one of them due to uncertainty instead of doing what they need to be doing at that time -- boxing the last wolves into a corner they can't get out of.

i see more f3's and f5's than any player on the forum. that's not a brag because the only reason i do is because wolves always think im playing badly. ong is the only player who has actually stated it's bad for wolves to leave me alive. so just take my word for it, f3's and f5's are a total disaster if there is much of any uncertainty left.

this is where the idea that it isnt wrong to lynch villagers early as long as doing so sets up enough certainty in the endgame comes from.

lol no. If you had gotten nommed n1 I would have said it was because you were playing well.

yet that would mean definitively that i was playing badly. specials need to stay alive. i would have thought you would have LOVED my self bold and other shit i did to keep myself unlynchable and unnommable.

the main mistake i made was having very "wuf-like" poison targets. ong figured me out that way, and by the time d3 came around, i was sure my targets had revealed me. i chose to keep them that way because i thought it was better than spewing.

Originally Posted by baudib

anyway, I take it back. never change Wuf

id like to see all of the new people who played with us to return.

the impression i get from beck is that he's a sweet, stern, and unfazed grandma who sits the young un down to have an informative chat about his unruly behavior.

siu needs a new fucking avatar. kami needs to pay attention. pnaw was cool. hifi was admittedly hardly playing . tom is probably great to play with. batm was amazing. also cory should return

Wuf, vigging the low-hanging fruit is a legit strategy, in fact it was something that was not widely done but I suggested it in my first ever villager game here and has since become standard.

Most of the village had Rilla as a lock wolf off D1 and he should get poisoned all the time to give the healer an easy decision.

Endgames don't even exist at FTR anymore because we rout the wolves on D1. The last time there was an F3 I was a villager and won.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

siu needs a new fucking avatar. kami needs to pay attention. pnaw was cool. hifi was admittedly hardly playing . tom is probably great to play with. batm was amazing. also cory should return

you only got like 1/10th full BATM.

Ship is actually a GREAT villager when he has time to play. He solves the game on D1 more than any other player, and in fact did exactly that the other game he played here.

I was super excited Aubrey played incidentally.

Originally Posted by baudib

Wuf, vigging the low-hanging fruit is a legit strategy, in fact it was something that was not widely done but I suggested it in my first ever villager game here and has since become standard.

im not sure "since" is right. we've been killing low hanging fruit for a long time. our vigs usually deviate tbh.

Most of the village had Rilla as a lock wolf off D1 and he should get poisoned all the time to give the healer an easy decision.

i didn't target rilla because we would gain the least information that way. his death was coming, so it was important to get the most out of it. he was going to be my ita target and if not then lynch target. allowing it to be this way gave more information. vigs should shoot targets they think are wolves, but that isn't the only consideration. vigging low hanging fruit and lynching wolves is better than the other way around. additionally, siu was a great target. did you see how unpopular his wagon was?

Endgames don't even exist at FTR anymore because we rout the wolves on D1. The last time there was an F3 I was a villager and won.

sample size. the times we've had non-imba games and a try-hard wolf team, it hasn't been nearly this easy. that goes for recent games.

i dont think this game was imba btw

is it too late to retroactively change my avatar from irina shayk to my even hotter close personal ukranian friend name Irina? born and raised in Kazakhstan which makes her even cooler because borat?

anyway i had fun, it whet my appetite for more. i mean, i have to make up for that failpost. thank you for the invite, baud.

ong you rock, i'm super impressed with your wolfing.

gg everyone.

btw i know wuf well enough by this point to know his game is more layered than people might think. i was happy he was defending me because i knew it wasn't insincere and he probably would, at that point, have bet on me being villager, but i also knew that he was keenly aware that if i was wolf, it would be a huge boon to me, and he'd keep an eye out for that. wuf's pretty damn smart.

^^^^ALWAYS A WOLF!!

Originally Posted by baudib

Ong, would you have preferred the role blocker or role cop in this game?

rolepeek is probably stronger, so probably makes up for the village lean of ITAs. This seems well balanced to me.

Cheers Aub! Tone wise you're a demon wolf. You just need to be aware of TMI. I slip like that too, just a little more subtle. Even this game, I noticed that I was talking like I knew the game wasn't over with a gator or hifi lynch. Noone picked up on it but it might look bad when I'm analysed later. It's so easy to do.

I hope you get back into playing!

found gif of bid playing werewolf

Originally Posted by baudib

The only people who have been decent as wolves recently are Gabe, Luco, Ong, MMM, BooG, Rascal but they've still lost more than they've won.

Awww.

I've got a 100% winrate as wolf. Wolfed once, won once.

Absolutely small sample, but my calculations indicate suck it.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

found gif of bid playing werewolf

My gf teases me on a regular basis with "did you die yet? Did you accidentally commit suicide yet?", in reference to WW. She knows how often I fuck up because I tell her all the time.

On top of that, she's semi-cat crazy.

She lol'd forever when I showed her your post.

Originally Posted by lilrascal

BATM, I wish you could have participated more so that FTR could have seen the real BATM.

I hope you stay and continue to play here. What I love about playing at FTR is the attitude of the players here, in that this is a game to play for fun and I've never seen any drama here and people are actually allowed to slank here for IRL reasons and not get lynched for it.

Same goes for all the new players: Beck, TTT, Bop. (If I missed someone I apologize.)

You'll had to make a liar out of me.

we have post game drama like any regular people. it never takes precedent during game though

Actually, this is calm compared to some post games I've seen as it's mainly about wolf chat.

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

My gf teases me on a regular basis with "did you die yet? Did you accidentally commit suicide yet?", in reference to WW. She knows how often I fuck up because I tell her all the time.

On top of that, she's semi-cat crazy.

She lol'd forever when I showed her your post.

lol



how bid thinks he's going to play the next game




how bid's really going to play the next game

She lol'd

it guys!

Guys, let me know what you be thinking.

I am thinking next game should be a recruiting ww game. Starts with 1 alpha wolf, who recruits every night. There is a seer, vig, and angel. If the alpha targets them, he dies. No other night kill.

Obv, this gets out of hand and the wolves take over very quickly. But...we've been really good villagers lately, and can soul read wolves like none other. The idea here is that the village must use this ability (and the specials) to find the alpha asap.

Its been run in the way way past, and I think it'd be cool. Gimme thoughts, cuz if I get the green light then ill mod it.

Example Games

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...an-175796.html

and the one listed right before it. Also WW XII

In

Originally Posted by JKDS

Example Games

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...an-175796.html

and the one listed right before it. Also WW XII

ah threadaments game.......I'd have won that for the wolves under the no self lynch rule.

Originally Posted by JKDS

Guys, let me know what you be thinking.

I am thinking next game should be a recruiting ww game. Starts with 1 alpha wolf, who recruits every night. There is a seer, vig, and angel. If the alpha targets them, he dies. No other night kill.

Obv, this gets out of hand and the wolves take over very quickly. But...we've been really good villagers lately, and can soul read wolves like none other. The idea here is that the village must use this ability (and the specials) to find the alpha asap.

Its been run in the way way past, and I think it'd be cool. Gimme thoughts, cuz if I get the green light then ill mod it.

TLDR.

IN

Originally Posted by baudib

No one understands the probabilistic nature of the game more than me...

You're probably right here. But, there's much more to the game than problem solving.

Good luck playing a perfect wolf strategy as wolf, a perfect village strategy as villager, and maintaining balance between the two.

Originally Posted by Luco

What I don't understand is why when boog and batm were tied on D2, you tried to push for smf and when that got no traction, boog emerged and CC'd drew. Boog could have probably just talked himself out of a lynch there, he's got great villa tone and batm was totally absent.

I see you agree that this was the pivotal moment, were you guys not feeling a batm lynch at the time?

I was told to fake-claim and, given that I was unable to read the thread much that day, I went with it. It was my fault. I should have done a better job of keeping up with the game.

The fact that the wolf thread isn't shared is kind of bull, imo. Has it been shared yet? If not, I'm pretty sure most wolves are embarrassed by what went on in there. A whole lotta nothing. Apologies to wolves, I should have probably lead more this game.

Originally Posted by baudib

A similar thing is happening here. First off, several people have evolved their villager styles to be so clear and consistent (Me, Rilla, Luco, JKDS are the best examples) that it's easy to see when they're slightly different. The only people who have been decent as wolves recently are Gabe, Luco, Ong, MMM, BooG, Rascal but they've still lost more than they've won.

I thought Rilla was just being annoying honestly but I think he has a valid point. Doing things to bro out for the wolves while not upsetting game balance at all and giving some protection for their future games is worth doing.

A n0 for the wolves to strategize, a closed den for them to share all their ideas, these things prob don't move the needle more than 1% but they don't hurt.

My winrate may have been positive as a wolf until this game. I think I'm .500 now.

Also, sharing wolf den means wolves must evolve. Mistakes are shared. This makes for better future games.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

the issue is only strategic on the margins. try this: can you name the strategic things that me/boog/monstr/daven did that aided the win? there were a couple and they were important, but i would be surprised if anybody even remembers them. also the real mover of that wolf victory wasn't the strategy (even though i do like to pat myself on the back for one specific thing that paid off well), it was instead basically all about daven and boog wimming in the game thread. the guys were fighters and that's why they won

We shared all our thoughts. Everything. We posted in the wolf den before posting live. We argued about you wanting to Ong the game (gain villa cred) and watched you die trying. :P Most importantly, we circle-jerked with a whole "we can still win this, guys." I was never more invested in a game more than I was that one. I'm still unsure how we pulled off that win.

Oh wait, no, now I remember. Thanks Ong.

Originally Posted by baudib

yes, you need 2 wolves. TWO. you were talking about winning it solo while you still had 2 teammates. You didn't figure out that BooG would have been necessary until after he was dead.

I fucked up by playing Indian when I should have been more of a chief. I take the blame this game.

Also, I just realized I didn't start this game off by bolding JKDS. Y'all shoulda known I was wolf D1.

Is there a setup we can run that has no vanillagers?

We even had a brief discussion about pubic hair.

Originally Posted by SuperMonkeyFace

Is there a setup we can run that has no vanillagers?

I've done one like this before but it's really difficult getting such a game balanced, so people kinda have to accept the wild variance that comes with role madness.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

We even had a brief discussion about pubic hair.

Say no to Bush, both the politician and the hair. It must be trimmed.

Did you see Barbara's Bush in the last game?

Originally Posted by OngBonga

We even had a brief discussion about pubic hair.

I coulda done without the dick pics.

Some mom jokes cross the line. *deleted*

Originally Posted by BooG690

My winrate may have been positive as a wolf until this game. I think I'm .500 now.

Also, sharing wolf den means wolves must evolve. Mistakes are shared. This makes for better future games.

We've been sharing the den threads and this clearly hasn't happened.

Originally Posted by baudib

On POG when we had the Challenge Cup or whatever it was in July, we were playing 5-6 turbos a night. We had a very small group of players, maybe 20, with about 5-6 in every single game.

Historically turbos have run very close to 50-50, but during this time the village was winning about 75% of the time. It was pretty obvious why: Everyone was extremely attuned to everyone else's meta as well as their tricks as wolves. If you have the same village core over and over and over and several pairings of people who read each other correctly 90%+ of the time (examples were the baes, JCohen-Me, Younguns and Vagos) you basically have the game solved.

A similar thing is happening here. First off, several people have evolved their villager styles to be so clear and consistent (Me, Rilla, Luco, JKDS are the best examples) that it's easy to see when they're slightly different. The only people who have been decent as wolves recently are Gabe, Luco, Ong, MMM, BooG, Rascal but they've still lost more than they've won.

I thought Rilla was just being annoying honestly but I think he has a valid point. Doing things to bro out for the wolves while not upsetting game balance at all and giving some protection for their future games is worth doing.

A n0 for the wolves to strategize, a closed den for them to share all their ideas, these things prob don't move the needle more than 1% but they don't hurt.

Fuck yea

Originally Posted by JKDS

Guys, let me know what you be thinking.

I am thinking next game should be a recruiting ww game. Starts with 1 alpha wolf, who recruits every night. There is a seer, vig, and angel. If the alpha targets them, he dies. No other night kill.

Obv, this gets out of hand and the wolves take over very quickly. But...we've been really good villagers lately, and can soul read wolves like none other. The idea here is that the village must use this ability (and the specials) to find the alpha asap.

Its been run in the way way past, and I think it'd be cool. Gimme thoughts, cuz if I get the green light then ill mod it.

Sure, why not.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

We've been sharing the den threads and this clearly hasn't happened.

dude. do you remember the type of wolfing done before we shared game threads? like, the woooooorst. it was the absolute simplest "dont attack other wolves" and that's it.

regardless, the sharing has nothing to do with it. we already have the proof we need that wolf culture is the problem when we look at how easy it is to be mostly cleared by hard bussing just one other wolf

wolfing is not as hard as we think. ftr just plays wolf bad most of the time, probably because we're such a close group of players that we don't want to play mean by doing things like hard bussing a fellow wolf with full knowledge that the player would not die otherwise. it's also probably largely because we play infrequently and small games. when we play once a month and there are only three wolves, even i dont like hard bussing for that enormous vil cred.

that's just one example of the type of stuff ftr just doesn't do and it has nothing to do with den reveals. my typical wolf strategy was on full display in the boog/daven/monstr game, but who here can name the key point to it? even if they can, im not going to use it again (or maybe i will).

Fine it's here, now shut up about it.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/35pysB8Dy6k

Drop it. Wolves got rekt no need to embarras them by making their failed plans public.
Let's play another game.

MAJ do not post. STFU!

In for next game.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Guys we're in serious danger here of forgetting what's important...

That everyone thought I was a villager, other than Batman cuz that guy can read into your soul.
So basically that doesn't count since he's using his hero powers not available to us mere humans.

Fyp
And yes it was pretty simple to me. I was so sure I fake peeked u wolf which is a very very advance play that it's super hard to pull off on d1

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Fine it's here, now shut up about it.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/35pysB8Dy6k

Originally Posted by wufwugy

that's just one example of the type of stuff ftr just doesn't do and it has nothing to do with den reveals. my typical wolf strategy was on full display in the boog/daven/monstr game, but who here can name the key point to it? even if they can, im not going to use it again (or maybe i will).

LOL you called it a strategy.

Originally Posted by BooG690

LOL you called it a strategy.

loliknow

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Fine it's here, now shut up about it.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/35pysB8Dy6k

You made the right decision.

Once again. I was premature.

it has to be rilla to post it.

Completely separately from the actual discussion at hand:

Why is it that only rilla's opinion matters as far as the chat being hidden, whereas BID's opinion that he want's the chat shared is not equally valid? Both were wolves. Both are equally passionate. What is the missing factor which chooses which opinion dominates?

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Completely separately from the actual discussion at hand:

Why is it that only rilla's opinion matters as far as the chat being hidden, whereas BID's opinion that he want's the chat shared is not equally valid? Both were wolves. Both are equally passionate. What is the missing factor which chooses which opinion dominates?

well it shouldn't matter more. im just assessing who has more skin in the game. if somebody else posts it, rilla might actually be really upset. that would be a problem. he would likely be more upset by that than bid is upset that it's not being posted. granted i dont know how upset gabe is.

my idea for compromise that would mitigate the damage is to keep this one private but declare that all in the future will be public.