Corruption Werewolf

Originally Posted by GatorJH

It's called blind ass luck. I was away from my computer when I got the pm and since night two was still pretty random tried to think of someone who had posted a minimal bit and came up with Hoopy. It really was that random.

lol

geez

holy fuck close to 900 posts in the wolf thread. gonna take me a year to read that

Originally Posted by eugmac

<3. but yeah reference the dead thread and what I wrote there about my reading way too deep into stuff and start chasing ghosts all the time.

I still think Gator is a wolf nearly every game I play with him, regardless of what he's done that seemed villagery. I manage to attribute all kinds of crazy levelling strategies to him, even though he actually plays pretty straight forward most of the time.

This was Supa in the wolf thread on night 2 when I said we should leave Gator & JV alive for kicks and kill Hoopy instead:

I'd be pretty fucking pissed off if gator beat us because we were stupid and let ego's get in the way. But yeah, whatever, I'm down with letting him and JV hang around for a little while. Jyms is obv confirmed villager and never getting lynched but I don't see him as a threat either so dunno yet.

It is clear that a handful of players are pissed at how I played, and I think we should have a discussion about that. I'm not a rigid person and I do things wrong all the time, so I need to dig into those things and make changes where necessary.

The PM thing: wherever there is a loophole through the rules, the players will go. This has always been the case on FTR, especially with PMs. JKDS has a liberal modding style, which I think is good, but you can't put the blame exclusively on the players for doing something that isn't against the rules. Many players were talking about PMs in this game, not just me, and I went out of my way to be vague until after JKDS said it was okay to discuss. I think the solution here is to send out villager PMs en masse, then send additional PMs to the specials and wolves. This is actually easier on the mod since he ends up sending out fewer PMs, and it solves all the PM discussion problems. It also allows for clever use of PMs like in the way JKDS fake outed as the wufinator in that one game.


The complaining about game structure thing: what I did technically isn't against the rules, so don't kid yourself if you think I should be banned from playing other games because of it. However, the idea that it's against the heart of the game is legit, and those concerns may be right.

On a personal level, I get really into this game and get super emotional when it comes to things like being tricked or being ignored. Remember the game that I got Gator lynched on Day 2, that was really all just because other players were ignoring the logic of my arguments and bolding me based on whatever they felt. That made me go insane and I created some elaborate conspiracy in my mind because of it. It's a personal problem, and I've gotten a lot better about it with each game because I've recognized the problem and have taken efforts to mitigate it. It's probably true that the same should be done when it comes to things like opining about the game structure itself

However, some of the points I made had merit, and you can know this by considering how everybody else would react if one of those deterministic things happened. For example, if the Godfather had been lynched and showed up as a regular villager, and the village then lost because they made lynch choices based on the idea that that player was a villager when he was actually a wolf. A lot of people here would have been pissed about that. What I did was sorta just a preemption to that. However, I can recognize that what I did can be akin to Captain America in Generation Kill, and everybody hated him, for good reason.

Another point in how we needed to change gameplay because we didn't know who the convicts were was also accurate. They weren't only vanilla villagers, we didn't know what exactly they were, and the margin of error was big enough that we had little information to play with as long as the mislabeling remained. I don't really know what to say about how I reacted to this. I think what I did was in the best strategic interests of the village

But the most important thing here is that FTR games have always had an unspoken rule that the dead roles are always accurate because if they're not then there is no real information to use for future gameplay. Doing it the way JKDS did may not be a problem and may be quite fun, but I think it's the unexpectedness of it caught me off guard. My reaction was sorta similar to TLR's reaction to the fingering of the last game. He hated that dynamic because he felt it wasn't proper WW, and he basically got himself killed because of it. What I did was instead of getting killed, I just bitched. Maybe I shouldn't have, but it should be recognized that there is a reason for that dissatisfaction that isn't unique to me.


Also my comment about comparing roulette and poker isn't what you may think it was. I meant that in poker the information is structured in a way that you can affect your outcomes; in roulette it's not



To JKDS, Supa, Rong, and everybody else that I irritated: I'm sorry. I love this game and I will never knowingly hurt its integrity. But I do make mistakes and I do learn from them. Funny to note, in probably about 75% of the games I play, there is some controversy because of me doing something batshit, but I still fix the problem and don't do it in future games.

Also thanks a lot to JKDS for modding. The game was very fun and I didn't mean to insult you. Your experimental style is a good thing. Furthermore, you and I seem to be the only ones who mod anymore. I think other players should try it out. It's only as hard as you make it. For example, it's super easy to mod a vanilla game without any narration. In many ways, modding is more enjoyable than playing

Wuf, we were probably a bit hard on you in the wolf thread so don't take that to heart. As wolves it felt like we were getting fucked around every corner and like you we get a little emotional too. I know the PM thing wasn't just you and you're right in the fact that it was allowed but it seemed so underhanded at the time. I don't know that I accept the "well everybody else was doing it" excuse cuz my kids do that but whatever, I'm over it. JKDS did give us some help by posting the villager pm in the wolf thread, which I tried to use to counter act the damage, but apparently I was too subtle or it was too late.

As far as your complaining goes I thought I could make it work in our favor but never had enough time to balance my attacks against you. It sucks trying to play this game when you don't have time. Like I said, I wouldn't have even played had I known. It's the reason I don't really play anymore. Both the game and my irl suffer. So I doubt I'll be playing again. Anyway, apology accepted and please accept mine if I was too harsh on you.

I browsed through the wolf chat. Impressive. Rong what you said about going hard on gator but had to calm down because I'd get suspicious, that was spot on. It indeed made me suspicious, and part of the reason i went for your kill. It's also a good example of the many small things that were wolfy that added up for me, even though nothing stood out so I couldn't make much of a case. And i got a bit crazy at end there due to sleep deprivation and exam stress.

And like I said in the villager chat thread, I outed myself as I thought I had already placed in my call to superman when I sent JKDS the pm. I didn't expect a roleblocker, but I just thought I had already fired my one shot regardless so was really surprising I died there.

All in all good play and good communication from the wolves, luco seems pro already, lotsa emotion in your thread too as the game progressed. Strong village too,

Let's start the next one! Have to find out who the big bad is

And wuf, I wouldn't worry about it. For me, everything that is said in the game, unless I'd get personally attacked for no reason, I easily forget after the game is over. I enjoy a competitive game best when everyone is trying their best, and that can lead to some heated emotions.

Also, I can mod one too if needed. I could cook something up. Mostly standard, maybe a small surprise.

I could start a 5 series, storyline about the 5 demon princes. They're what my favorite book series is about, written by jack vance, hence my username.

I need to be quick, but ill give you a better response later wuf.

1) I was harsher in the dead thread than I should have been, mostly because I didnt know how to respond to you directly without accidentally outing you as a villager. Even PM-ing is something dangerous to do, so I took out my frustrations in their.

2) For my games, I give a short disclaimer in the sign up thread. Like this one said "Mostly" WW. So when something happens that makes this less than a standard ww game, I feel like people cant be annoyed that this isnt a 100% typical normal ww. Comments like "This isnt ww, etc" just irked the shit outta me. If people want standard, and dont want new roles/ideas/etc, then dont sign up. The game wont start, and a standard game will likely take its place.

Loads of fun guys. Really interesting to see how the other half live.

It sucks a bit that irl caught me at the end. Pascal, jkds and daven all had afk moments too, would be awesome if we could pause the real world for a while and just get down to bidness.

Eug, seriously good first game. Chip, I hope you play again man. Aubrey, GG and perfect lookups but don't give yourself away like that again if you flop special, the next wolf den may not be so forgiving (again, sorry supa).

Wuf, its easy to forget that ww is just a game until it ends. It's all cool

Like supa I'm not sure about future ww right now. My evenings have always been busy and with ftr now blocked at work I'm in a bit of a spot. Maybe with a better phone and new contract I can hang better but Idk.

Gator, lol @ the hoopy block, did you see our reactions to it? GG man and mwa ha ha ha thoughts on daven today

I have my thoughts on why the village won this one but it doesn't matter, I really enjoyed playing with all of you and that's what counts. Thanks all, especially rong - it's inspiring stuff seeing you work.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

Nice try and it may have worked if I were a regular villager, but I am not.

I am BATMAN.

sweet! got this read when you responded to my post about you making it deep into the game.
nh all
and cheers for the game jkds!

Good job everyone, very fun game. I'm glad I got the perfect lookups, but that's only one reason we won. The village played very well, especially at the end, and the wolves were a challenge too. It was a surprise to suspect Rong in the end game for me.

Luco - when you say I gave myself away, do you mean that I was too obvious before my outing? I'm guessing it's when I said that thing about them being "dangerously" off about me.

lol aubrey, either that or the "if I told you you'd know why I can't tell you" post. You have know idea how close you were to dying the night before you outed. There was literally never a seer that came that close to dying and didn't... in any game, ever.

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

Good job everyone, very fun game. I'm glad I got the perfect lookups, but that's only one reason we won. The village played very well, especially at the end, and the wolves were a challenge too. It was a surprise to suspect Rong in the end game for me.

Luco - when you say I gave myself away, do you mean that I was too obvious before my outing? I'm guessing it's when I said that thing about them being "dangerously" off about me.

this plus the 'if i tell you' etc posts, unplanned outing is normally bad as a special. I was trying to rep the batman so they'd nightkill me and not gator, but obviously i suck at repping being a special
no idea why they didn't night kill you and block the batman, but worked out great for us!

Originally Posted by wufwugy

It is clear that a handful of players are pissed at how I played, and I think we should have a discussion about that. I'm not a rigid person and I do things wrong all the time, so I need to dig into those things and make changes where necessary.

The PM thing: wherever there is a loophole through the rules, the players will go. This has always been the case on FTR, especially with PMs. JKDS has a liberal modding style, which I think is good, but you can't put the blame exclusively on the players for doing something that isn't against the rules. Many players were talking about PMs in this game, not just me, and I went out of my way to be vague until after JKDS said it was okay to discuss. I think the solution here is to send out villager PMs en masse, then send additional PMs to the specials and wolves. This is actually easier on the mod since he ends up sending out fewer PMs, and it solves all the PM discussion problems. It also allows for clever use of PMs like in the way JKDS fake outed as the wufinator in that one game.


The complaining about game structure thing: what I did technically isn't against the rules, so don't kid yourself if you think I should be banned from playing other games because of it. However, the idea that it's against the heart of the game is legit, and those concerns may be right.

On a personal level, I get really into this game and get super emotional when it comes to things like being tricked or being ignored. Remember the game that I got Gator lynched on Day 2, that was really all just because other players were ignoring the logic of my arguments and bolding me based on whatever they felt. That made me go insane and I created some elaborate conspiracy in my mind because of it. It's a personal problem, and I've gotten a lot better about it with each game because I've recognized the problem and have taken efforts to mitigate it. It's probably true that the same should be done when it comes to things like opining about the game structure itself

However, some of the points I made had merit, and you can know this by considering how everybody else would react if one of those deterministic things happened. For example, if the Godfather had been lynched and showed up as a regular villager, and the village then lost because they made lynch choices based on the idea that that player was a villager when he was actually a wolf. A lot of people here would have been pissed about that. What I did was sorta just a preemption to that. However, I can recognize that what I did can be akin to Captain America in Generation Kill, and everybody hated him, for good reason.

Another point in how we needed to change gameplay because we didn't know who the convicts were was also accurate. They weren't only vanilla villagers, we didn't know what exactly they were, and the margin of error was big enough that we had little information to play with as long as the mislabeling remained. I don't really know what to say about how I reacted to this. I think what I did was in the best strategic interests of the village

But the most important thing here is that FTR games have always had an unspoken rule that the dead roles are always accurate because if they're not then there is no real information to use for future gameplay. Doing it the way JKDS did may not be a problem and may be quite fun, but I think it's the unexpectedness of it caught me off guard. My reaction was sorta similar to TLR's reaction to the fingering of the last game. He hated that dynamic because he felt it wasn't proper WW, and he basically got himself killed because of it. What I did was instead of getting killed, I just bitched. Maybe I shouldn't have, but it should be recognized that there is a reason for that dissatisfaction that isn't unique to me.


Also my comment about comparing roulette and poker isn't what you may think it was. I meant that in poker the information is structured in a way that you can affect your outcomes; in roulette it's not



To JKDS, Supa, Rong, and everybody else that I irritated: I'm sorry. I love this game and I will never knowingly hurt its integrity. But I do make mistakes and I do learn from them. Funny to note, in probably about 75% of the games I play, there is some controversy because of me doing something batshit, but I still fix the problem and don't do it in future games.

The only thing I got pissed about was the complaining and saying things along the lines of "if I was a wolf here I'd quit because it's shit" and similar stuff. It is such a shit way of proving you are a villager, which is what it's an attempt to do. I mean really I think it's scraping the barrel in terms of strategy, in a similar way to paraphrasing your PM.

Just because those things aren't expressly forbidden doesn't mean it's ok. They are ethically wrong and very much against the spirit of the game.

What's worse, you had a clear argument that was blatantly better than mine (it being true really helped), but rather than running with that and having that battle, you just went down the road I talked about above, which really pissed me off. You of all people shouldn't feel the need to use that kind of argument.

I'm not pissed off now. I also get very emotionally involved in the games and at the time I was extremely pissed off. I certainly don't think you should be banned in any shape or form and hope you play the next game. That said, I certainly hope you don't use that strategy again.

I don't think you really went about it in such an intentional way. I imagine you just ran with what you felt at the time and expressed it in the clearest way you could to explain to everyone else what you knew. And you were right, both in terms of your general argument against me, and in terms of the fact that you wouldn't ever act the way you were if you were a villager, and that's what pissed me off so much. My argument, amongst other things, had to involve the fact that you could be the godfather wolf, and your comment that if you were you'd quit because of how you felt about it's power, was both true and proof of your role. There was no real counter-argument to that other than making the same claim myself, but I was that role. So not only did you take a cheap shot to prove your role, but you undermined all of the effort I and my team had put in, just because at that time you felt the game was unfair. And that's what was so shitty about it. I genuinely felt like giving up at that point, because it would have taken a hell of a lot of effort to win, and if I managed it, you had just pissed all over it and the main way for me to counter you was to piss all over it myself.

I think we should have new rules about this, I just don't know how to succinctly sum it up in a short sentence to make it a simple rule. Maybe "don't do a wuf" or something, and no PM discussions whatsoever at any point. Not about your own PM or about what someone else has said which from your own PM makes you know their role. Now it's fine to realise someones role on the strength of their posts and your own PM knowledge, but you shouldn't publicly state it or even subtly flirt with the rule of no PM discussion.

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

Good job everyone, very fun game. I'm glad I got the perfect lookups, but that's only one reason we won.

It's a pretty major one. Those lookups were a game changer. Bud kudos for getting it right, you effectively won the game for your team.

Good point about complaining about the rules, it's a very villagery thing to do. So it *can* be used by wolves (same as mentioning PMs) but they generally won't because it's unethical. However, talking about the rules, especially when they're very unclear, is normal too. It's a fine line. Maybe a rule like, you can mention your thoughts about the rules of the game, but don't be judgmental about until after the game is over.

Originally Posted by rong

I still think Gator is a wolf nearly every game I play with him, regardless of what he's done that seemed villagery. I manage to attribute all kinds of crazy levelling strategies to him, even though he actually plays pretty straight forward most of the time.

This post makes me smile.

Originally Posted by rong

The only thing I got pissed about was the complaining and saying things along the lines of "if I was a wolf here I'd quit because it's shit" and similar stuff. It is such a shit way of proving you are a villager, which is what it's an attempt to do. I mean really I think it's scraping the barrel in terms of strategy, in a similar way to paraphrasing your PM.

Just because those things aren't expressly forbidden doesn't mean it's ok. They are ethically wrong and very much against the spirit of the game.

What's worse, you had a clear argument that was blatantly better than mine (it being true really helped), but rather than running with that and having that battle, you just went down the road I talked about above, which really pissed me off. You of all people shouldn't feel the need to use that kind of argument.

I'm not pissed off now. I also get very emotionally involved in the games and at the time I was extremely pissed off. I certainly don't think you should be banned in any shape or form and hope you play the next game. That said, I certainly hope you don't use that strategy again.

I don't think you really went about it in such an intentional way. I imagine you just ran with what you felt at the time and expressed it in the clearest way you could to explain to everyone else what you knew. And you were right, both in terms of your general argument against me, and in terms of the fact that you wouldn't ever act the way you were if you were a villager, and that's what pissed me off so much. My argument, amongst other things, had to involve the fact that you could be the godfather wolf, and your comment that if you were you'd quit because of how you felt about it's power, was both true and proof of your role. There was no real counter-argument to that other than making the same claim myself, but I was that role. So not only did you take a cheap shot to prove your role, but you undermined all of the effort I and my team had put in, just because at that time you felt the game was unfair. And that's what was so shitty about it. I genuinely felt like giving up at that point, because it would have taken a hell of a lot of effort to win, and if I managed it, you had just pissed all over it and the main way for me to counter you was to piss all over it myself.

I think we should have new rules about this, I just don't know how to succinctly sum it up in a short sentence to make it a simple rule. Maybe "don't do a wuf" or something, and no PM discussions whatsoever at any point. Not about your own PM or about what someone else has said which from your own PM makes you know their role. Now it's fine to realise someones role on the strength of their posts and your own PM knowledge, but you shouldn't publicly state it or even subtly flirt with the rule of no PM discussion.

You're right. I should have kept it to myself. I think the role is unfortunate, but that view should have been relegated to the post-game. IIRC, many players have done that sort of thing in game, but this time it got out of hand. Fortunately, this reveals a fixable flaw that can make future games better

I think a "no bitching about game dynamics rule" would suffice. First time is a warning, second is a modkill, that sorta thing. We need a comprehensive rules sticky.

Yea, no bitching about dynamics, rules, roles, potential roles or theoretical outcomes.

And no discussing PMs.

Originally Posted by Luco

Aubrey, GG and perfect lookups but don't give yourself away like that again if you flop special, the next wolf den may not be so forgiving (again, sorry supa).

ABSOLUTELY!!! IMO the wolves lost this game, not by letting myself and JV live, but by letting YOU live. In the future be VERY careful about dropping hints, especially if it is just one person going after you.

Originally Posted by Luco

Wuf, its easy to forget that ww is just a game until it ends. It's all cool

Agreed for sure. Personally I think you played one of your best games and I couldn't have put the pieces together without some of your insight.

Originally Posted by Luco

Gator, lol @ the hoopy block, did you see our reactions to it? GG man and mwa ha ha ha thoughts on daven today

I have my thoughts on why the village won this one but it doesn't matter, I really enjoyed playing with all of you and that's what counts. Thanks all, especially rong - it's inspiring stuff seeing you work.

That was the first thing I looked for in the wolf chat just to lulz at it.

As a final note I REALLY liked the new dimension of not knowing the dynamics of the roles. It was weird at first because we are new to that, but I honestly think it will make everyone a better player. Great job JKDS!!!

Hrm, I might do a poll next time that requires 3:1 in favor of hidden roles to keep it...but Im liking that a few people enjoyed the mystery. I have a few roles that werent "activated" this game, and some others i've been thinking of so we'll see.

Ive heard a lot on the Godfather role, but what about the role-blocker and LoisLane type character? The idea of a 1-shot "stop any kill" really appealed to me, and (for this game) i didnt think allowing the mafia to role block any role was overpowering.

RE PM discussion: Some discussion seems to necessarily be allowed. For instance, "I am Commissioner Gordon, and theres apparently a godfather." The mechanics of your power role have always been an aspect of proving you are what you say you are, and that is pm discussion.

Further, a warning system fails when the mod isnt watching the thread. It is very easy for someone to spark a pm discussion that balloons out of control before the mod checks the thread and sees what happened (say, because of sleep). In that scenario, its hard to really decide what to do.



One question I guess is, do you guys WANT a hard-ass mod? I think most of you have figured out that I will very rarely modkill, but I can certainly use it more frequently if desired.

What I think happens is the mod only has to claim to be hard-ass because once the rules are known, everybody plays within them.

I honestly have no idea if Mafiascum people tend to like or dislike roleblockers, and I have a hard time evaluating them because I have little experience with them. Roleblockers could work sometimes, but I think that the specials need to know if they can be blocked. I think the goal is to avoid something like JV outing because he thought his power worked 100% of the time. Something like saying this in PM would work "Holla J to the Vizzle, youse teh Lois Laney, youse can call Suparmans wan time and block a nom. But bewares! Teh baddies may or may not be ables to distract Suparmans".

I don't like general "thwart action" powers, but I love "something happens when you target a specific somebody" powers because that makes it more skill based. I know I've mentioned it several times, but I think my Sorcerer is the coolest special power there is. It forces the wolves to get tricky with their noms and allows the special to only kill a wolf if he's able to accurately predict who that nom target is. This all requires the role being "known" though, instead of hidden


I think hidden roles are fantastic and I might use some too, but hidden wolf powers is not something FTR is used to, and I think when those exist, people need to be aware of it. The first spectacularrrrrrr game worked like dynamite because every player knew some whack shit was gonna go down and baddies could get the powers too

I encourage specials that kill more wolves because it allows for additional wolves in the first place

yeah I'll admit, I was a little goofy with the hints I dropped. For some reason I had a false sense of security about it (as though the wolves were just magically not analyzing my posts). No idea. Anyway, I was aware of it at the time, which means I can prevent it in the future, so lesson learned.

Thanks for letting me live through the derp. :P

Just curious, if I announced that I was going to look up rong near the end there, would you wolves have still night-killed me?

I was thinking of doing that (while looking up wuf instead, since I suspected him less) because I figured if rong was the immune wolf, then I would certainly not get nommed, and I was fairly convinced rong was the wolf anyway. Kinda bummed I didn't - just wondering if it would have made a difference.

just finished the wolf thread and literally laughed out loud at rong's last posts, especially when I noticed he had changed his name.

Aubrey, nah, you was getting got as I'd not have believed you.

Anyway this was a really fun first game for me, I'm really looking forward to the next.

Originally Posted by rong

Aubrey, nah, you was getting got as I'd not have believed you.

oh sure, like you'd admit otherwise now...

Just got through the crazy long wolf thread after reading the rest of this thread. Been very busy the past 2 weeks.

Crazy game overall, I was interested why Bman protected me on night 2, but it ended up being pure chance trolling the wolves.

Having all the mechanics hidden at the start was great imo, kept things interesting when wolf hunting is difficult.

I don't quite understand how the game got wrapped up so quick at the end, maybe we could start a new thread to discuss the mechanics if people feel they are off?

Continuing the story next game sounds awesome.

Big thanks to JKDS.

I think I like the idea of a target blocker better than a role blocker i.e. the wolves couldn't block a seer just by knowing the seer, but could block the seer's lookup if they target the same player the seer does. This would force all parties to play smarter and would allow for a higher number of allowed block attempts and even more initial village special powers since some could be expected to be blocked

The trouble with things like that, and with this game, is it takes time to work out good strategies and we play so few games. We just need to play more.

I'm willing to mod more games. It just seems that FTR player pool is small enough that we only get like one game every 6 weeks or whatever

But yeah, modding is easy as fuck if you just go straight vanilla. For all I care, you guys can choose the format, roles, etc and I'll mod it

If you're looking for more players for your next game I'm quite interested in playing.

The more the merrier.

I wanna mod one too. I have a few ideas to keep it interesting. Won't spoil them, but I think they could be interesting.

In fact, I'd be quite keen to mod one. Having been a wolf twice in a row and made it to end game both times I'm quite drained on the werewolf front, so modding would be a nice way of staying involved without having to think about strategy.

we're always looking for more players. unless you're crazzvette

Originally Posted by aubreymcfate

oh sure, like you'd admit otherwise now...

I'd have been more inclined to let you live if you'd said you intended to look up Wuf in the hope that it was a bluff.

Originally Posted by rong

In fact, I'd be quite keen to mod one. Having been a wolf twice in a row and made it to end game both times I'm quite drained on the werewolf front, so modding would be a nice way of staying involved without having to think about strategy.

You should mod the next one then. It'll be easier and more enjoyable than you think. Just make sure the rules and roles are clear in your mind, then it falls together. Imba tends to not bug people around here that much. The two main WWs I modded were pretty imba, but nobody cared because they felt enjoyable

If you wanna throw ideas at me in PM, you can

I'd quite like to discuss a few ideas, but I don't wanna spoil them and you'd like them, so it would be a shame to tell them to you.

Actually fuck it, I have a few concepts I can share that I haven't thought through yet.

For instance an Angel who has to protect someone every night, can't protect himself, can't pick the same person twice and if picks a wolf would protect the wolf from the seer/vig.

Or a Vig chooser. So a special who picks a vig every other night who has to shoot, could be a wolf and same person can;t be picked twice.

I guess my ideas involve sharing around the powers in some way or other.

I'm also a big fan of a bit of a blood bath of a game where people die fast but can also be revived.

I just thought of those two ideas now so haven't thought them through and they aren't the ideas that I definitely want to use, but they touch on the concept I like of spreading the wealth of power.

I love the bloodbath and revive powers as well. If we get a large enough pool, I'd like to do a third installment of Werewolves vs Vampires with possible tweaks. WvsV2 was pretty awesome even though some of the best specials died early

The Vig Chooser is a pretty great idea. He'd have to pick the targets he thinks will make the best shots, but also the targets he thinks are the least likely wolves. Honestly, I think he would be a statistical benefit to the wolves, but still a really fun role to have. Everybody loves being the vig

That angel is similar to how I'd do it. Either that or one with a limited number of protect attempts or successes. When it comes to specials, I think the only thing FTRers really care about is that the endgame can't be cinched by a seer/angel combo.

Revives are really tough to do. I think the Necromancer in WvV2 was OP. The Reanimator was OP too. That was when TLR could only post and I could only bold, and we would have won had it not been for BID going wacko

I made up a game that's so ambitious that it might not be proper werewolf. Would require 25-some-odd players and there would be a legislator that would be voting on laws that would change the game in ways they can't quite predict. I think it's pretty awesome and have thought through the logistics pretty thoroughly and would love to do it some time, but it's very ambitious and I would have to talk it over with a seasoned mod.

just read through the wolf thread
my goal with my posts about specials etc in endgame was to make the wolves think i was special/batman and nk me, saving the real batman.

Luco
06-21-2013
01:41 PM ET (US)
Sorry guys my gut says daven is
supa
06-21-2013
06:43 PM ET (US)
"everyone agree that aubrey is the obvious player to protect tonight?"

Daven is batman.

Yeah you got me Daven, I think there was a post where you called yourself an ldo vanilla villager that caught my eye plus some other things.

If someone else mods that's great, prefer playing over modding. But please don't get too creative with the rules, we mostly want to play a familiar game not face potential imbalances. Only JKDS is really qualified to mix things up because he spends so much time at it imo.

The games at mafiascum where I've been playing, they're assessed by admin before they're started to ensure balance. The large games apparently undergo quite some analysis before being given the go ahead, sometimes it takes longer to analyse the format than it takes to play the game.

You guys should let me mod one. I might not be as creative as JKDS, but I'll find a balanced game to steal.

I don't see how its that hard to create a reasonably balanced game. I mean you need to think it through of course but I think its relatively easy to keep our small games reasonably balanced.

Yeah I thought that too. But the standard seer/angel/vig format is horribly imbalanced towards the village in smaller games and where the village is competent, as we see when benny gets the seer role. Granted, it should be easier to balance small game than large games (our games are relatively small), but it's far from easy, as we see this game.

I think they determine if a game is balanced by "playing" the game by making random decisions, and they're looking for no more than a 55% winrate for either team over a large sample. I think I read that somewhere, anyway. Obviously a moderator cannot account for content and individual skill, so these factors are disregarded when trying to balance a game. Balancing is a fine art, it seems.

I got that impression too. I haven't played on mafiascum or any of those sites, but I played this one mafia game on another forum I used to frequent. After the game was over the mod showed us a formula to ilustrate that the game was balanced (was 2 bad guy teams, and everyone had a power).

Originally Posted by OngBonga

The games at mafiascum where I've been playing, they're assessed by admin before they're started to ensure balance. The large games apparently undergo quite some analysis before being given the go ahead, sometimes it takes longer to analyse the format than it takes to play the game.

You guys should let me mod one. I might not be as creative as JKDS, but I'll find a balanced game to steal.

Whoever starts the signup thread is the one doing the modding. We don't have to come to a consensus on who we're okay with modding. If you or JV or Rong or any other regs want to mod, everybody is okay with it

The next one I mod will probably be co-mod with Aubrey; however, if nobody else steps up by the time a new game is wanted, I'll mod that, but it will be either vanilla or whatever other setup somebody else gives me

(was 2 bad guy teams, and everyone had a power)

That's as difficult to balance as it gets!

To be fair to JKDS, I think all that is required to balance this game is to assign the special roles earlier so the wolves have a reasonable chance of killing off at least one special in the first couple of nights. Having three specials around in endgame is too much for the wolves, JKDS was totally right in that a massclaim at the right time would've fucked them, and had I been around I would have suggested it. But then no-one listens to me, I remember in another game suggesting everyone post fake seer look ups so the real seer could post his look ups for us to look back on if he was killed, but no-one wanted to know.

As for the next one, let's see who wants to play and who wants to mod in a couple of weeks.

i'm going to be in greece in august and would love to co-mod with wuf before then. also, to be clear, when we say co-mod it means wuf will be in charge of everything game related while i do his bidding and have my way with the narrative.

I don't think posting seer look-ups is such a good idea. The wolves can scrap everyone who calls one of them a villager off of their seer hunting list. And there are more problems. The wolves can also tell a fake seer by calling a villager a wolf. To counteract this, villagers will have to mostly name other people villagers. But if the seer has found a wolf, he has to name that person. To balance this out villagers need to name some wolves too. And there are more potential tells, such as in the choice of names. I think posting your opinion on everyone is better. The seer can fit in his lookups in a subtle way. Something can be said for not doing that either though.

Would love to get another one of these going soon - especially as I missed so much of the last one. Wuf and aubrey, would you both be up for co-modding one? I can give you both mod powers to look after the thread and I'll be much more active too...

I really enjoyed this game, even when I was dead I kept coming to read the thread. Sorry to flog a dead horse but I did find your complaining about the rules a bit tedious wuf - I was looking forward to coming in to read strategy discussion and stuff and just kept seeing stuff about how the game sucked in different ways. Think that's been mentioned to death and there was no rules against it, and can move on

Sorry again for being so useless in the game!

Would love to get another one of these going soon - especially as I missed so much of the last one. Wuf and aubrey, would you both be up for co-modding one? I can give you both mod powers to look after the thread and I'll be much more active too...

I really enjoyed this game, even when I was dead I kept coming to read the thread. Sorry to flog a dead horse but I did find your complaining about the rules a bit tedious wuf - I was looking forward to coming in to read strategy discussion and stuff and just kept seeing stuff about how the game sucked in different ways. Think that's been mentioned to death and there was no rules against it, and can move on

Sorry again for being so useless in the game!

Yeah let's get started. Pascal even double-posted because he's so enthousiastic!

I really wanna mod this one.

I wanna create a pretty vanilla game with a few subtle changes that should keep it interesting.

If there's interest I'm willing to do it now. But if I'm not modding then I'm sitting this one out.

Get fighting as to who's gonna mod boys and girls

tbh i'm more interested in narrative than modding so wug and rong, you guys will need to duke it out. you've had decent practice already, shouldn't be too hard.

i'm itching to do it soon too though 'cause like i said, i'll be on a tiny ass rock in the aegean come august. i actually wouldn't mind participating in a game while i'm there either, but i wouldn't want to be in charge of anything mod-related.

of course that's assuming anyone other than wug wants to co-mod with me, which is kind of a big assumption. i can just wait for whatever game wug mods and jump on board with him.

Start the sign-up thread and you're the mod.

Aubrey, you seem keen so I'd just throw out a 3 way PM and have a discussion with both

i'm just keen to stick y'all into my post-apocalyptic playground and do sadistic things, that's all. cannibals vs. survivors.

Originally Posted by rong

I really wanna mod this one.

I wanna create a pretty vanilla game with a few subtle changes that should keep it interesting.

If there's interest I'm willing to do it now. But if I'm not modding then I'm sitting this one out.

u should mod this one. start the thread

ok since wufwugy is being a booger, rong you mod the next one and wugy and i will do our thing whenever it makes sense.

Coolio. If there's interest so soon and down with it. It will be a drug smuggling gang infiltrated by the A

... TF.