Unluckiest Sit and go I have had yet

Ok so heres a couple hands from this, if even one went my way I think I could have won aside from when i was down to 400. I know I wasnt the favorite before the flop but after the flop I was a huge favorite in every one.

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Hand #3235739-81 at Botzingen (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 09/Nov/04 23:01:36

SALLYSEESAW is at seat 1 with 685.
Agro is at seat 3 with 1330.
toml_8 is at seat 4 with 1915.
DirtRockADub is at seat 5 with 2200.
Jack Straw is at seat 9 with 3870.
The button is at seat 1.

Agro posts the small blind of 100.
toml_8 posts the big blind of 200.

SALLYSEESAW: -- --
Agro: -- --
toml_8: Qs Kc
DirtRockADub: -- --
Jack Straw: -- --

Pre-flop:

DirtRockADub folds. Jack Straw folds. SALLYSEESAW
goes all-in for 685. Agro folds. toml_8 calls.

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

SALLYSEESAW shows Jc Jd.
toml_8 shows Qs Kc.


Flop (board: 6c 9s Qh):

(no action in this round)


Turn (board: 6c 9s Qh 6d):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 6c 9s Qh 6d Jh):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

SALLYSEESAW has Jc Jd 6c 6d Jh: full house, jacks full of sixes.
toml_8 has Qs Kc 6c Qh 6d: two pair, queens and sixes.


Hand #3235739-81 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
SALLYSEESAW wins 1470 with full house, jacks full of sixes.

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Hand #3235739-96 at Botzingen (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 09/Nov/04 23:07:02

SALLYSEESAW is at seat 1 with 870.
Agro is at seat 3 with 460.
toml_8 is at seat 4 with 900.
DirtRockADub is at seat 5 with 3300.
Jack Straw is at seat 9 with 4470.
The button is at seat 1.

Agro posts the small blind of 100.
toml_8 posts the big blind of 200.

SALLYSEESAW: -- --
Agro: -- --
toml_8: Qs 8h
DirtRockADub: -- --
Jack Straw: -- --

Pre-flop:

DirtRockADub folds. Jack Straw folds. SALLYSEESAW
folds. Agro goes all-in for 460. toml_8 calls.

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

Agro shows Kd As.
toml_8 shows Qs 8h.


Flop (board: 2d Qd 3s):

(no action in this round)


Turn (board: 2d Qd 3s 5d):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 2d Qd 3s 5d 4c):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

Agro has As 2d 3s 5d 4c: straight, five high.
toml_8 has Qs 8h Qd 5d 4c: a pair of queens.


Hand #3235739-96 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
Agro wins 920 with straight, five high.
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Hand #3235739-92 at Botzingen (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 09/Nov/04 23:05:10

SALLYSEESAW is at seat 1 with 870.
Agro is at seat 3 with 330.
toml_8 is at seat 4 with 930.
DirtRockADub is at seat 5 with 3300.
Jack Straw is at seat 9 with 4570.
The button is at seat 3.

toml_8 posts the small blind of 100.
DirtRockADub posts the big blind of 200.

SALLYSEESAW: -- --
Agro: -- --
toml_8: 4d 4c
DirtRockADub: -- --
Jack Straw: -- --

Pre-flop:

Jack Straw folds. SALLYSEESAW folds. Agro calls.
toml_8 goes all-in for 930. DirtRockADub folds.
Agro goes all-in for 330. toml_8 is returned 600
(uncalled).

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

Agro shows Jd Qs.
toml_8 shows 4d 4c.


Flop (board: Ad 5h 8s):

(no action in this round)


Turn (board: Ad 5h 8s Qd):

(no action in this round)


River (board: Ad 5h 8s Qd 5s):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

Agro has Qs Ad 5h Qd 5s: two pair, queens and fives.
toml_8 has 4d 4c Ad 5h 5s: two pair, fives and fours.


Hand #3235739-92 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
Agro wins 860 with two pair, queens and fives.

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Hand #3235739-97 at Botzingen (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 09/Nov/04 23:07:23

SALLYSEESAW is at seat 1 with 870.
Agro is at seat 3 with 920.
toml_8 is at seat 4 with 440.
DirtRockADub is at seat 5 with 3300.
Jack Straw is at seat 9 with 4470.
The button is at seat 3.

toml_8 posts the small blind of 100.
DirtRockADub posts the big blind of 200.

SALLYSEESAW: -- --
Agro: -- --
toml_8: Ah As
DirtRockADub: -- --
Jack Straw: -- --

Pre-flop:

Jack Straw folds. SALLYSEESAW folds. Agro folds.
toml_8 goes all-in for 440. DirtRockADub calls.

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

toml_8 shows Ah As.
DirtRockADub shows Jc Td.


Flop (board: Jh Js 9h):

(no action in this round)


Turn (board: Jh Js 9h 8c):

(no action in this round)


River (board: Jh Js 9h 8c Ts):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

toml_8 has Ah As Jh Js Ts: two pair, aces and jacks.
DirtRockADub has Jc Td Jh Js Ts: full house, jacks full of tens.


Hand #3235739-97 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
DirtRockADub wins 880 with full house, jacks full of tens.

lost on Aces... Brutal. Looks like you just took a few kicks. That'll happen from time to time. Keep on truckin

The first three arnt bad beats. Or even bad luck. You pushed preflop as an underdog in each of them (4s a slight favorite but still similiar) and they sort of panned out in a "bad beat"-ish sort of way. I mean, calling an allin with Q8o? What was your reasoning for tossing up half your stack on that one? The aces, you were short stacked and it was an easy call for someone else with 3300 in chips. Aces arn't a sure thing. Just ask mike4066 who's running with 40-ish% winning rate with aces this month at .5/1.

-'rilla

Boy do I hate it when my Q8o gets cracked...

Yes well i was in 4th at the time and wanting to finish ITM blinds were 1/4 of my stack and Argo had gone AI about 4 of the last 5 hands PF and was called a few times with bad hands like 5-6 and stuff. So i figured With the Q-8 I probably had him beat about 50% of the time and I also knew that I couldnt keep giving my blinds away. I decided to take a coin toss and try to get in third. I already said that I knew I was the underdog from the start but with those flops you would think I could take at least 1 or 2 hands.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Aces arn't a sure thing. Just ask mike4066 who's running with 40-ish% winning rate with aces this month at .5/1.
-'rilla

$%@(CA)*@ @#($!&@#$%)* !E%$#$@% &@#*)$ low limit holdem bullshit!


Staple, AVOID COINFLIPS!
Holdem is a game of domination. Getting into conflips constanly you are turning it into a game of luck. Sure you may win a large series of coinflips and think your doing well, but it will have a negative affect on your game in the long run. Loose calls for 1/4th of your stack? Let someone else do it.

Think dominate, not get lucky. Make THEM get luck. pushing 44 if your not a very small stack is just asking for trouble.

you had enough chips in most of those hands where you didn't have to get all-in preflop.

If your shortstacked 5xbb's or less your going to have to try and find coinflips. With any luck you get AKo and the guys calls you with Q8o.

Calling the all-in with Q8o IS acceptable under the right circumstance. Lets say you have a BIG FAT STACK, and its 5-7% of yoru stack to call, or maybe your in the BB and its 1Bet more to call. Sure go ahead make the loose call, but not for that much of your stack.
Your job there isn't to play table sheriff, its to win. Let someone else try and pick off the bluffs, and if your going to call a bluff, try to find a better hand to do it with.

I do understand your calling with Q8o with a short stack, he could be trying to steal your blinds with rags. But if i need to make a short-stack push I try to do it with AJ or better. KQ if I must, but I hate being an underdog to a single Ace. I'd rather push with A5s than KQ.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I'd argue that even when your aces got cracked, it was not a bad beat.

My reasoning: Look at DirtRock's chip count. He has you dominated. He's already posted big blind for 200, and it is only a little over one more BB to call your all in and have a chance at knocking you out. It was not a bad move for him to call with a marginal heads up hand like JT. Maybe he thought you had a lower pocket pair and it was cheap for him to try the coinflip.

Boy do I hate it when my Q8o gets cracked...

:P

Originally Posted by LeFou

Boy do I hate it when my Q8o gets cracked...

lol

Yeah aces arent a sure thing, ask radashack, he cracked them down with KTs, none of these were BAD beats. If you want to see a bad beat search for the one Micheal posted, the guy had a 0.02% chance of winning and he did. (runner runner jacks)


-anto

Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I'd argue that even when your aces got cracked, it was not a bad beat.

Pretty much anytime that AA is all-in preflop and loses it is a bad beat. The other guy made a marginal call and got lucky, tough luck, it happens; however, it IS a bad beat...

More importantly however, is that fact that you placed yourself in several coinflip situations, this should be avoided unless you are the dominant stack or pitiful shortstack. I'm with mike on this one.

Just tighten up a bit and remember that there's no point in betting your whole stack when you don't have to.

Originally Posted by Aceofone

Pretty much anytime that AA is all-in preflop and loses it is a bad beat. The other guy made a marginal call and got lucky, tough luck, it happens; however, it IS a bad beat...

Maybe my definition of a bad beat is different then. To me a bad beat comes as a result of bad play made by an opponent who gets lucky. Sure, he got lucky, but his call was understandable and not necessarily bad play.

The guy who called the all in is thinking to himself: "I'm big blind, this guy is extremely short stacked compared to the blinds, he's got to be getting desperate. Probably has a marginal hand and wants to steal. Winning the blinds for him will increase his stack almost 70%. He's made some questionable moves earlier in the tourney. It's only 240 more for me to call, at a chance of winning 540. 240 is like, only 6% of my stack."

All I'm saying is that it wasn't necessarily bad play to call his all in, therefore in my mind it was not a bad beat. Granted, by Sklansky's Fund Theorm of poker it was the wrong move, but this is not a game of complete information. You have to figure that maybe he's going all in with Ax, or Kxs, or maybe a low pocket pair. Pretty much a whole slew to groups 5-7 hands he could have pushed with, since he was desperate. There's no way to put him on aces just because he goes all in at this stage in the tourney.

I completely agree with what your saying, perhaps my wording was bad.

He got all in preflop with AA, should be golden. Big stack says not much for me to call, so he does.

Unlucky fellow takes a bad beat when his AA gets cracked, but the big stack didn't dole out a bad beat, he made a marginal call and got lucky.

The Definition for bad beat that I remember most clearly: Anytime you get your stack in the middle as a significant favorite and lose.

Got ya.... Yea, I kind of thought we were working with different definitions. I see exactly what you mean.

I just think of bad beats in terms of "did the guy make a dumb ass move and end up winning anyway?"

Think about it this way aces versus any pocket pair is basically 7 to one. so if the pot is offering greater than 7 to 1 than you should call even if you know he has aces.

Yup. Then in this case, if you knew he had aces, you should fold. No question. The pot odds are not good enough for AA against JT.

The problem is that you don't know he has aces. In fact it is far more likely that he has one of the many crappier hands, perhaps even crappier than the JT that the big stack called with. You can do a lot worse heads up than with JT. So factoring all of these unknowns in, you come up with a guesstimate that there's a 50% chance he is trying to steal with a hand much weaker than yours. This increases the expected value to call. So call.

Originally Posted by !Luck

Think about it this way aces versus any pocket pair is basically 7 to one. so if the pot is offering greater than 7 to 1 than you should call even if you know he has aces.

4:1 actually

it cant be 4:1 ffs! =)

it's 4:1 for all 5 cards. if the flop comes with 2 suited, and you have AA, and someone raises you all in, you're in trouble because they have a 35% of knocking you out now. you'll lose 1 in 3 times.

or you can have AA, and raise someone else all in, which they call and show you quads.

I thought we where talking about AA going all-in versus a lower pocket pair preflop... You actually have 4:1 here? Thats better than I thought!

ohh ...checked it up! Its true, a little less than 4:1 , got me! =)