Stars WSOP steps sng's

I played a few of these today.

Step 1: $7.50 turbo.

These play like freerolls, of the 70 fpp 100k satellites. Very loose, most players have no concept of raise sizes, bubbles, etc. Should be easy to beat, but swingy because of it. Top 2 get a ticket to step 2, 3rd gets a ticket back into a step 1. Played 4 of these, won 1. Expected to do better, but ahh well. They're over pretty quickly.


Step 2: $27 turbo

Played my one of these. Standard was probably around that of a $6.50. People care somewhat about their money, but most have no idea about how to play a STT correctly. These should be fairly easy to get through, and only require a couple of adjustments. Top 2 get a ticket to step 3, next 2 get a ticket back into step 2 and 5th gets a ticket into step 1. So you really want to make 4th, but theres a mini-bubble for 5th I guess. Really it plays about the equivalent of making the bubble of a $6.50, with perhaps a little less incentive to go for 1st. I won the one of these I played without any real hassles, although I had some nice cards at the right times.

Step 3: $82 turbo

Havnt played this one yet, but railed a couple and things are getting serious. I expected standard of around $16 but I suspect its better. People just dont throw themselves out early in these, so you probably wont fold your way into a ticket. They pay top 2 tickets into step 4 and next 3 all get a ticket into step 3 which is nice payouts. Play your A game and hopefully you'll at least get to top 5 and go from there.

Thats all I've played/watched, would expect standard to keep improving, payouts to be about the same. There are 6 steps, winning step 6 wins you entry to the WSOP (actually, it sounds like it wins you $12,500 which you can then spend on that or not).


Thoughts

2 bubbles. I tend to treat the first one the most seriously, then we're playing to win. The payout structure means the ICM changes I think. I made some folds that I would normally push or call. Theres a lot of value to letting other folks knock each other out if you're wondering whether to p/f at some point and you think its a toss each way.

Anyone else played these? Any thoughts/advice?

Oh, one thing to bare in mind is you cant trade in for T$. You make it to step 5 which is a $700 normal and you gotta play to get to step 6. No taking that $700. What this means for BR management I dont know, but I guess make sure its $'s you can afford to spend without much expectation of getting it back.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Any thoughts/advice?

Yeah, I'd stay away unless it's your idea of good bankroll management to play a couple of super high-stakes SnG's against some of the best SnG players in the world. Guys like Jorj95 and stevie444 pretty much multi-table the Step 5 and Step 6 all day to take advantage of the fish who win their way up from Step 1. Oh, and even if you manage to beat those guys, you still have to play in the main event and get nothing back for your money the vast majority of the time.

Like I say, the way it reads it sounds like the prize is actually a cash prize to the value of a wsop package, but we're getting confirmation of that.

Whilst I dont disagree, lets assume we've decided to use a small percentage of our BR to have a shot and have some fun. Any thoughts/advice on getting the best out of our money?

For instance, once we're playing competent players, will they call tighter on the bubble when short than they may in a normal sng? Will big stacks call looser?

I'm almost positive they don't pay you $12.5K. By US law they're not allowed to register you for the main event, but my guess is they do something like have you meet them in a random hotel room in Vegas and write you a check for $12.5K after you prove to them that you registered for the main event. And you're right, when there's three people left, good players will obviously be pushing more and calling less. Can you adjust SnG WIZ for changes in payout structure?

Just a note that some of the bubbles change in importance as you move up and down the steps.

Step 3 has the most important bubble at 5th, the top five get their seat back in step 3, 6th gets zero and top two go through to step 4.

Dunno, someone posted this quote, but I havnt found it myself:

The first time that a player wins a Qualifier, the prize which that player wins is the entry fee to the Event (US$10,000) plus US$2,500 spending money for the Event. The prize will be deposited into the player’s PokerStars account. If a player wins additional Qualifiers, that player's PokerStars account will be credited with W$10,000 and that player will receive US$2,500 in cash.

He was going to email support to confirm.

Or a

Originally Posted by mcatdog

I'm almost positive they don't pay you $12.5K. By US law they're not allowed to register you for the main event, but my guess is they do something like have you meet them in a random hotel room in Vegas and write you a check for $12.5K after you prove to them that you registered for the main event. And you're right, when there's three people left, good players will obviously be pushing more and calling less. Can you adjust SnG WIZ for changes in payout structure?

Yes, you can adjust SnGWIZ. You must make custom tourney. Then, put the value of tickets as a prizes for according places. (As you can't change tickets back for T$, you may value them differently - value to you, not entry in step). I made a custom tourneys in SnGWIZ for all my local Brick and Mortar tourneys (blinds, payout structure). Just be careful - if you ever make custom tourney for MTT (2-3 table SnG), if analyzing situations before final table, switch away from ICM (it works only in final table).

Of course, you will not be able to analyze all tournament as review (assuming, WIZ doesn't import it from Stars with correct payout structure). But, you will be able to analyze most troublesome push/fold hands, by spotting them in your HH replayer and then modeling into WIZ.

For more info visit SnGWIZ official forum, really helpful.

Good luck at the tables

The problem is, I think you'd want to put 100% in first and 100% in second to really calculate your ICM correctly, since calling them 50% each undervalues the equity each has. Not sure if you can setup a custom payout structer of > 100%.

I played 2 of them using FPP, got to step 2 and busted out ni the 2nd try , I have also played some of the EPT steps, got to step 4 I think.

Once over step 1 I play it really tight in the beginning, my initial goal is to get to the point where I can retry the tournament or at worse drop a step, at least in level 2 and to an extent also in level 3 it is not that hard, and then playing really agressive.

Played my step 3, lost AA to JTs when he flopped a straight.

Gotta revise my thoughts on step 3s though, it was really fishy, lots of min-bets/min-raises/etc, calling down with 2nd pair. I guess its luck of the draw.

I just wanted to give my experience on the steps.

I bought into one earlier this week for 500 FPPs. I ended up stuck at step 3 9 straight times, then stuck at step 4 3 times I ended up back down at step 2 then back up to step three for a couple of rounds. I ended up making 2k FPPs in the process.

I haven't tried again since, but might early next week. They are really mentally draining.

Here is how I approach step 3 and above. (I don't bother with step 2 because they fill so fast and are super fishy. You can practically fold to at least a 4th place)

I watch the room as it slowly fills and look up each player on OPR. If more than 3 "sharks" enter the room, I don't play. I wait for the next room. I consider a shark any winning player or someone with at 90%+ rating. If they have no rating on there I assume they never played at PS or are a cash gameplayer and I assume they are weak players. This may seem like a bad assumption but so far, its been true 90% of the time.

I made it to step 6 one time a couple of months ago using this strategy and finished 5th when my KK lost to QQ. You'll never find a room with less than 6 "sharks" here, so its really tough to qualify.

So far I have invested $15 and 500 FPPs and have come out ahead, and gained a ton of experience played some fine players. I would recommend this method to you guys. I will win a seat sometime this year, I am sure of it. (not bad for a guy with a $500 bankroll)

I hope this helps you all!

O

Originally Posted by mcatdog

I'm almost positive they don't pay you $12.5K. By US law they're not allowed to register you for the main event, but my guess is they do something like have you meet them in a random hotel room in Vegas and write you a check for $12.5K after you prove to them that you registered for the main event. And you're right, when there's three people left, good players will obviously be pushing more and calling less. Can you adjust SnG WIZ for changes in payout structure?

Hello Christopher, Thanks for the email. If you win a package we will credit your account with the funds, you willhave to buy-in yourself at the event. If there is anything else we can help you with, please don't hesitate tocontact us. Regards, Michael SPokerStars Support Team ----- Original Message -----From: [email protected]ent: 2008/03/04 02:59:31To: [email protected]ubject: Quick question >>when somebody wins a WSOP package, do you credit their account with the$12,500, or do you actually buy them into the 10k event, then credit themwith $2,500?>__________________________________________ _______________________


I am not sure if they give you 12.5k in the account, or 2.5k in the account and 10k in the form of a check. I'll let you all know when I win my seat this weekend.

I've been grinding the step 3's, not sure how i like it yet, but thx to the horrble stars satellites, i am up about 2k W$ so far, lookin for 2-3 seats this year to build the bankroll up. Only if I win 5-6 seats will I play the event.

-Chris

I think if you're a good player with a decent BR they should be +EV. You're probably going to be playing much weaker competition than usual for the buyins because of lots of people 'taking a shot'.

Like me.

If I had FPPs I'd play a bunch with them, but I think I've put enough of my roll into them so far. Was fun, hoped I'd get to freeroll more like Outlaw but wasnt to be.

Ive started playing these as well as I to have visions of my self, negranu, hellmuth, ferguson, greenstein, and the likes all playing together I decided that I was not going to invest any money in these whatsoever and that I would just play with FPP's. Im a goldstar on Pstars, and 8 table 25NL 4 hours a day so I get them fairly quickly.

All I have invested so far is 500 FPP's. I played Step 1, bubbled out and got a seat back to step 1, then played again and got my seat to step 2. I had to play that on once and now Im on to step 3. I was going to go ahead and play this one tonight but instead I decided to watch a few of the step 3 tables and come to FTR for advice.

With the level of players in step 3 does tight is right still apply in early stages?

Do I still open my range up in late postion early in the tourney or keep to group 1 and some of 2?

My thought process so far is that I can play well enough to least win myself a seat back into step 3. Ive watched the players and I still see a lot of people still shoving early with AQ, AJ, KQ type hands. Survival is something Im generally pretty good at in a tourney.

Other than my thoughts so far anyone else have any suggestions for step 3 or adjustments I should make?

I'd be playing so fucking scared by step 4.

Originally Posted by jasons0147

Other than my thoughts so far anyone else have any suggestions for step 3 or adjustments I should make?

In my experience, step 3 has been a cakewalk. Most that play in it are steps qualifiers that started at step 1, or so it seems. I have played in 21 step 3s now and have only failed to get in the top 5 twice. That includes 6 tickets and 8 thirds.

Although I got stuck once at this level 9 straight times, on the worst run imaginable, I still got to step 4 without investing a dime extra beyond my initial step 1 buyin.

Tight is definately right early, play some suited connectors in the last 4 seats and try to get in cheap.. don't bother raising a lot until the blinds are 50-100... Then pick on the weak passives relentlessly. Raise HBLs(high blind limpers) in position and build a decent stack for the ICM phase. You typically like to have around at least 4k going into a 4-way.. but it doesn't matter all that much. I've had an M of 3 going into this phase three times and still got a ticket.

Avoid playing too many pots with the strong players. (they are easy to spot) I've noticed most really strong players in this phase are super agressive post flop as they (just like you) realize most step 3 players are weak/passive. Don't be afraid to shove on them if they screw with your blinds or get cute postflop. They will realize you are a good player and avoid you as well. They will also work with you implicitly during the ICM phase to attack weak players. This is very important!

Usually there are 3-4 players gone super fast. Usually just maintaining your initial 1,500 will walk you into 5th. The best time to open up your game is when there are 6 left and the blinds hit 75-150/100-200. The tables become so weak/passive at this point its ridiculous. Watch out for the short stacks with an M of 5 or less, don't raise into them unless you are willing to call a shove.

Attack weak passives in the blinds relentlessly. Don't attack pre-flop agressives in the blinds as often, rather set them up with a couple of raises (that they shove or raise on). Then wait for a big hand to trap with. People at this stage simply don't recognize plays and are very easy to trap.

I hope this helps, let me know if you need help and let us know how you do.

I am playing in a step 3 today or tommorow as well. I'll let you know how I do.

O

Thanks for all the advice Outlaw, seems like a lot of what I have noticed in step 1 and step 2 with maybe a few more solid players. Sounds like I shouldnt be to worried the solid players as I have no problem sharing first place with them. I only have one really dumb question....what is M?

Read Harrington on Hold'em 1+2.. best books out there by far for any tournament player.

M= The total number of times around the table you can survive before being blinded out. It is, in my opinion, the single most important thing to keep track of for any tournament player. Anyone can play a big stack. Orange and red zone play is what separates the good players from the great players.

M in a nutshell:
M of 20+ = The Green Zone- Here you can play freely, opening with suited connectors etc, all facits of your game are in full throttle.
M of 10-20= The Yellow Zone- Here you are more limited in playing weaker hands in earlier positions. You are now in premium hands mode; in position. You don't want your play to be spewy as you don't have the luxury of a massive chip stack. Although you're not by any means desparate, you are definately looking to make a move to get back into the green zone.
M of 5-10= The Orange Zone- Now you are basically looking for a good spot to double up. You want to make strong moves here against HBLs (high blind limpers) when the opportunity presents itself. Be care that your move over the top does not pot commit your opponent.. unless you want a call. A good move in this zone can be the stop and go.. bet 1/4 your stack and then push regardless of the flop. If you go card dead and the opportunity doesn't arise to make moves, don't work because you still have....
M of 1-5= The Red Zone- This is where you never want to be but likely will be at some point in 95% of tournaments.. if only late. As a rule of thumb, when your M hits 3 its desparation time. You HAVE to push before the BB hits you again. With an M of 3, people can still fold to your pushes as it is significant enough to generally warrant a premium hand to call. Due to fold equity, pushing any 2 cards is +ev with an M of 3-4. I personally like to push in the cutoff or on the button every single time once my M is below 5. Unless of course there is a maniac just to my left, then I wait for an M of 3.
M of less than 1= The dead zone- Here you are done. You will get multiple callers to your all in who will cooperate to boot you. The only time you should ever get here is when losing an all-in race where you had the guy slightly covered. Otherwise, never let yourself be blinded to this point except in extreme conditions. (there is an even shorter stack who will catch the BB first on the bubble of a qualifier)

In my opinion, by knowing the above info about M and playing position poker, cards don't really matter too much. I played a 45 turbo last week with my cards covered by a sticky note.. I got 2nd (although I did take the note off once I got to the final 7 which is in the money) Try it sometime, it'll really open your eyes, no pun intended!

Again, I hope this helps. And remember, no question is dumb!

O

Hate to dig a topic out of the grave, but I wanted to share some of my experiences.

I waited quite a while to play step 3 simply because I knew that it was going to be a tougher tourney and I wanted to make sure that I was focused for it. So out of all time I decided to play it at like 2 a.m., which I felt like was really a great idea. I think I played great this whole tourney, but made one huge mistake and didnt give a player enough credit and got lucky which basically put me on auto pilot for the rest of the tourney. Im going to include the tournament trimmer for this step because I am going to be playing step 4 and I would like to get some advice on what i could have done different, or what I need to prepare myself for. Please ignore the A9s hand (first hand I played), as I already realize Im a donkey and understand that I sucked out

http://www.flopturnriver.com/Online-...ment-3173.html

Hand 1: Terrible. Fold PF. TPTK doesnt count in a 3-way pot when the TP is a 9...

Hand 7: I hate calling for set value here, but you took it on the flop without a set, so fine I guess.

Hand 9: I'd prefer to fold, but fair enough.

Hand 10: Obv fine, but wow.

Hand 12: I probably raise this PF, call is fine with odds.

From then on it was good. You want to be putting pressure on those other two on the bubble like that.

Ive been watching step 4 tourneys for about two hours now, and the thing im noticing is the aggression is really ramped up. Ive breifly watched some steps 5's and 6's and all I can is wow. I also noticed that probably about half maybe even more of the players in step 5 and 6 already have seats to the WSOP, I cant say I really feel comfortable playing against so many champions. Can anyone with experience in the High BI tourney's give me any advice that would help me. I think I will be ok in step 4, but will study the play a little bit more before I dive into my next step.