Hard call for my stack...

This happend fairly late in the mtt (34 left)... this seems to happen to me often late in an mtt... what's your play?

***** Hand History for Game 2953122329 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:16991863 Level:12 Blinds (500/1000) - Sunday, October 30, 07:59:03 EDT 2005
Table SHOOTOUT(500168) Round(3) Table #3 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Ace408 ( $15205 )
Seat 2: joniecash ( $22449 )
Seat 3: bryanthebody ( $17261 )
Seat 4: GIGI1007 ( $14539 )
Seat 6: rastaman704 ( $9130 )
Seat 8: GlassC ( $5868 )
Seat 9: cuda770 ( $26869 )
Seat 10: renegaderob1 ( $12517 )
Trny:16991863 Level:12
Blinds (500/1000)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to renegaderob1 [ 7h 7c ]
renegaderob1 raises [2000].
Ace408 calls [2000].
joniecash folds.
bryanthebody folds.
GIGI1007 folds.
rastaman704 folds.
GlassC folds.
cuda770 raises [3600].
renegaderob1 calls [2600].
Ace408 calls [2600].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, Th, 9h ]
cuda770 is all-In.
???

I'm about average stack because i just came back from d/c where i lost 6,000 chips... no reads as it was a new table...

I would have thought it an easy fold.

would he reraise like that on J Q? Here, you have a lot of outs... tough call, but I might call it. He probably has AK or AQ, missed, but wants you to fold or pay for draw.

Rather tempting, but I think i would fold and wait for a better spot....if he happens to have JJ, QQ, you no longer have all your outs..And while you're ahead of AQ and AJ, they still have plenty of outs on you.

Q: What's your play?

A: I don't minraise 77 UTG, any hand I'm in I do the standard preflop raise for the table (when it's late I hope I have already shown a 2.5xBB raise with a big hand that everyone folded to so they know that's my bet). With cuda's raise to 4600 I put him on a hi pocket pair - it's a bet that wants to pump the pot. cuda easily has JJ-AA (maybe AKs?). With the butt end of this str8 draw u really only have 3 clean outs (the non-heart 6s). I fold.

{This post has been removed}

Originally Posted by chardrian

Q: What's your play?

A: I don't minraise 77 UTG, any hand I'm in I do the standard preflop raise for the table (when it's late I hope I have already shown a 2.5xBB raise with a big hand that everyone folded to so they know that's my bet). With cuda's raise to 4600 I put him on a hi pocket pair - it's a bet that wants to pump the pot. cuda easily has JJ-AA (maybe AKs?). With the butt end of this str8 draw u really only have 3 clean outs (the non-heart 6s). I fold.

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

no brainer fold

the ass end of a straight draw calling off the rest of my stack that deep in an MTT ? helllll no

enough said

I think it's an easy fold from UTG

-'rilla

Originally Posted by chardrian

A: I don't minraise 77 UTG, any hand I'm in I do the standard preflop raise for the table (when it's late I hope I have already shown a 2.5xBB raise with a big hand that everyone folded to so they know that's my bet).

Yeah, I probably should have raised to 2500 (2.5BB), but this was the very first hand of the new table, so it was as much a feeler bet as anything.

Originally Posted by chardrian

I fold.

Probably should have done this; I put him on QQ-AA, AK, AQ (or he could have been making a play against the new guy cos he was big stack?) so after a very long time I hit the call button and crossed my fingers; he turned over JJ and when I hit my set, he hit his OESD... At least I got enough cash outta this for another 8 buy-ins...

I know now this is my biggest end game leak; I seem to be getting into lots of situations where I'm calling of a large part of my stack very deep when I'm either in a coin flip situation or where I call crying; I guess I just don't like playing short stacked (this wouldv left me in last position on the table) or something... any tips (besides fold more) to plug this? Do you guys call a large prf raise with PPs in mtts deep in when you're mid-low stacked?

I also try to get more aggressive the later on it gets ala rippy style, and it often bites me in the ass; a few days ago I was BB fairly late in an MTT, 3rd in chips overall. SB completes and I raise to steal 3.5BB (my read on him was that he completed with any old junk on SB). I guess he decided to make a stand and called. Flop came out rags (I had 5,10s) but I had backdoor straight/flush opp. SB checked so I fired out a 3/4 pot bet. He called. Another rag came out on the turn, but this time SB came out firing (read; he was trying to steal. Stone cold bluff). I reraised to AI cos of my read. He thinks, calls and flips over J3s to win jack high over my 10 high...

My read was right, but for some reason he decided he would play back at me and I ended up very short stacked. Bubbled out on a coinflip (TT)...

Any end game advice here? Thanks guys

[quote="renegaderob1"]

Originally Posted by chardrian

I know now this is my biggest end game leak; I seem to be getting into lots of situations where I'm calling of a large part of my stack very deep when I'm either in a coin flip situation or where I call crying; I guess I just don't like playing short stacked (this wouldv left me in last position on the table) or something... any tips (besides fold more) to plug this? Do you guys call a large prf raise with PPs in mtts deep in when you're mid-low stacked?

I also try to get more aggressive the later on it gets ala rippy style, and it often bites me in the ass; a few days ago I was BB fairly late in an MTT, 3rd in chips overall. SB completes and I raise to steal 3.5BB (my read on him was that he completed with any old junk on SB). I guess he decided to make a stand and called. Flop came out rags (I had 5,10s) but I had backdoor straight/flush opp. SB checked so I fired out a 3/4 pot bet. He called. Another rag came out on the turn, but this time SB came out firing (read; he was trying to steal. Stone cold bluff). I reraised to AI cos of my read. He thinks, calls and flips over J3s to win jack high over my 10 high...

My read was right, but for some reason he decided he would play back at me and I ended up very short stacked. Bubbled out on a coinflip (TT)...

Any end game advice here? Thanks guys

Bump

I think a lot of players finding some success at MTTs have problems going from ITM to the FT. There are some suggestions regarding this time of a tourney (e.g. right after ITM is a time to tighten up becuase a good chunk of the low stacks who were just camping to make the money will now go balls out loose). But, unfortunately there is no general answer on how to play an "end game"... nor should there be because each tourney and each table are different. Do your best to adapt to your chip stack and your image at the table and go from there. A good guide for any player out there is to watch others, so even if you get knocked out, sticking around to see how others play should only help you in the long run as well.

never limp late in the tournament........ 77 if you have a tight image u COULD get away with raising, but you will probably have to fold if someone re-raises all in depending on there image. You shouldnt really ever have to play a flop late in the tournament actually...

i would have folded preflop personally, but on the flop u would be insane if u call... lets say he has KJ or AJ u still are 50/50, and thats probably your BEST situation.

endgame with big blinds is incredibly luck based... there are certain things you MUST do to have a chance but luck is such a huge factor.. u can't get caught on your steals, and you hope that your big hands get payed off. win your races ect... just don't try to play flops anymore. Re-raise overly aggressive players all in when u know they can't call you, and steal on tight players.

Uh...yuck! 77 UTG on a brand new table with no real reads on anyone. I would fold this. It's such a weak hand at a full table. If you had better position or had more information on your opponents, then maybe a different play would be warranted.

Next, I apologize in advance for this question, but I have to ask.

Did you fall in little bit in love with those 77's? You mentioned it was a probing type bet and then you got a call and a re-raise. To me that means I'm up against a good hand in UTG+1 and an even better one on the button. Your probe was met with resistance, let it go. You would have been at best a coinflip preflop or worse dominated by a bigger pocket pair. You still had fighting chips.

A probing bet preflop is one of the things I look for toward the end of a tournament. If I think someone has a mediocre hand and they're trying to feel out who has a real one, I represent that hand and put them to the test.

With that said, you have to fold preflop. Also, the idea that you don't like to play shortstacked is interesting: it's push or fold and you don't have many decisions to make, that's true. But pushing 77 UTG is a hell of a lot better than calling down two raisers with position on you preflop with almost ANY hand.

EDIT: That made little sense. What I'm trying to say is you have to be the aggressor to have the best chance of winning the pot, and even chasing something like a flush draw is a mistake in most situations. With a big draw, you have to semibluff or get out of there if you're not able to take it down.

What I'm saying is, don't cold-call in most cases this late in the tournament. Bet and raise, and put the other guy to the test.

Originally Posted by digitaldoc

Next, I apologize in advance for this question, but I have to ask.

Did you fall in little bit in love with those 77's?

err.. yeah...kinda...

Sometimes I just get these brain farts and completely forget why I started playing the hands... and another leak of mine (both in ring and tourny) is that I sometimes forget my position because I see fair-good cards and just get excited. I have a couple of post-it notes on my computer that both say "POSITION!" but I think I'm also going to start sitting on my hands before I make any decisions in late-stage tourny play

Originally Posted by AndyHolt"

pushing 77 UTG is a hell of a lot better than calling down two raisers with position on you preflop with almost ANY hand.

Mmm, I can see why it was a stupid move....

Does anyone limp 77 UTG with 34 left? or is it always push or fold with 12.5BB stack?

I think it might be worth calling with that much of your stack in, drawing to 10 outs...(7, J, 6)

Even if you hit those outs you could lose tho.

Originally Posted by renegaderob1

Does anyone limp 77 UTG with 34 left? or is it always push or fold with 12.5BB stack?

You have to remember that in order to achieve your goal (winning the whole MTT) you want to possess every chip in play. I would probably fold 77 UTG in this situation on a relatively loose table and push on a tighter table. It's more likely that you'll be called by someone with a better hand, obviously, but you don't really want a call here. If you were called by unpaired cards, this is one of those situations where you get lucky or are SOL, and skill doesn't play a huge part. The skill is in the decision to risk all your chips or wait for another spot... You have to evaluate the table and go from there.

I know you've heard this all before, but the reason why great MTT players keep coming up with big wins is because they know what to do based on the table and their image.

I remember soupie saying that a lot of it is luck, but you have some room to maneuver with 12.5 BB and this particular decision is one that makes or breaks the MTT for you. Forget bluffing, reading hands, bankroll management, posture etc. you have to know when to pull the trigger in a hand like this. The best thing you can do is watch the table like a Maltese Falcon and go from there.