Good fold on the turn or bad played on the flop? :/

Hello all

I am new to this forum website despite being a regular player since last year or so.

I would like to gather your opinions on this hand. I was already ITM on a micro MTT from iPoker yesterday. I was between me and the newly arrived to the table chipleader of the MTT.

I was dealt KJo and the action is as follows

Stacks:
UTG 29k 12bb
PedSukata (UTG+1) 117k 49bb
MP1 25k 11bb
MP2 97k 41bb
MP3 99k 41bb
CO 58k 24bb
BTN 177k 74bb
SB 157k 66bb
BB 13k 6bb

Blinds: 1.2k/2.4k Ante 240

Pre-Flop: (5.8k, 9 players) PedSukata is UTG+1 Jc Ks
1 fold, PedSukata raises to 7.2k, 4 folds, BTN calls 7.2k, 2 folds

Flop: 5s Jh 2d (20k, 2 players)
PedSukata bets 9.6k, BTN raises to 34k, PedSukata calls 25k

Turn: 5h (89k, 2 players)
PedSukata checks, BTN bets 62k, PedSukata folds


My doubts here is if a shove pos-flop makes absolute sense and if the fold on the turn makes sense too. I think my cbet could be more higher too.

I folded thinking that i was up against an overpair but....would like to hear from.

I only have 5 hands from the villain so not much of a help :/

My stats for this MTT: 20/16/ 3bet-8/AggF 3.3

Many thanks in advance

Raise size seems a little big, I'd go for 2.5bb.

When you call the flop reraise what range do you put villain on? Imo his range otf and his range ott aren't a huge amount different. So if you are calling his reraise otf you should surely think you are ahead of his continuing range. If not then why are you continuing? Another bet for you is always going to be an all in.

I think we either call flop and then call a shove on a blank or we fold the flop to the reraise.

Fold pre.
Generally, you don't want to mess around with mediocre hands against really big stacks and really small stacks. BU and SB are huge and BB is tiny.

A standard raise pre at this point would be something like 5500. On the flop, betting less than half the pot looks like a probe. Maybe sometimes that's what you want, but in this spot you have to fold to the raise so it's kinda bad. Definitely fold turn.

Probably best to shove over his reraise - or fold - I think calling is not good here. Do you not think if he had an overpair he would have re-raised pre? Chances are he raised to get you to fold but it is a tough spot so either fold or play back at him if you think he is throwing his weight around.

I like the shove to re-raise on the flop. There is a good chance he's got a medium pair with that flop and if not you have 2 streets to catch good.

he basicley scared u off the pot, his thoughts are u missed the flop, your bet after the flop not big enought, so he scared u off

Originally Posted by rabbieburns

Probably best to shove over his reraise - or fold - I think calling is not good here. Do you not think if he had an overpair he would have re-raised pre? Chances are he raised to get you to fold but it is a tough spot so either fold or play back at him if you think he is throwing his weight around.

A shove makes sense in this spot only if we think a worse hand will call us or if we think we can get a better hand to fold. If we really think that he is "throwing his weight around" then calling is the best choice by far because we want him to bluff off the rest of his chips.

Er... he did call - and then folded the turn. Agreed, calling to let him barrel off if he puts him on a bluff is ok but call/fold is not so great - so either shove over the re-raise or fold to it is a better play than call/fold; fact is, he's going to be allin on the river if he calls down anyway - so he should either commit to the hand on the flop or muck when btn re - raises.

KJo UTG+1 vs the chip leader on the button ??? fold KJo pre-flop ! your out of position with a marginal hand for your entire stack ! people will say i am not folding KJo UTG+1 there !!!! BUT I AM !

Originally Posted by rabbieburns

Er... he did call - and then folded the turn. Agreed, calling to let him barrel off if he puts him on a bluff is ok but call/fold is not so great - so either shove over the re-raise or fold to it is a better play than call/fold; fact is, he's going to be allin on the river if he calls down anyway - so he should either commit to the hand on the flop or muck when btn re - raises.

I think we are sort of agreeing. I agree that if he is going to call he should call down here. I also agree he should have just folded flop if he is going to fold this turn. Where we disagree is that it seems you are still saying a shove over the re-raise makes sense here and it just does not - a shove gets bluffs to fold and hands better than ours will just call.

Well reasoned - I suppose I was responding to his question only rather than offering a logical solution as you have, also I was making the assumption that we are dealing with an aggro bigstack when PedSukata states he doesn't have a clue about his opponent because he has only just arrived at his table.Thanks for the instruction - it may help me to take less fishy lines in my own games.

Go easy on me guys. live U.S player here trying to learn online stats and how they correspond to player types, am i correct in understanding that 20/16 is fairly tag? seeing that from the button by utg +1; i gotta put you on AK/ AQ when no 4bet response pre-flop. please help me understand 3 bet 8/ aggF 3.3 ; if it means highly aggressive im going to throw weight (from the button speaking) if no A or K or Q on the flop. if it's passive than im going for the steal on your seemingly continuation bet on the flop.

As played i would of called down as it appears you disguised your hand well from that position. However if my assumption of 20/16 as tag is off than my whole reasoning is out the window and am lost.... but i do agree that checkfolding here was bad strategy and should of just folded pre to the aggression considering the stack size and position.

question*** as you do not have stats on him from entering new, does that mean he doesn't have any on you as well? cause that obvisously changes the dynamic....

I think it's close between call/fold turn, I don't see how you can fold flop.

the idea 'if we call flop raise we must call turn' doesn't make any sense to me, his range to bet the turn seems way ahead of his range to raise the flop.