Fairly common spot

You get J3o in the BB at the 100/200 level, you have say 6000 in chips. There are 4 limpers in front of you. Assume all unknown/haven't seen anyone do anything too retarded yet.

Flop comes J72o 5-way.

Half-pot for 'protection'??? Less? Check? How does it change on JT2 with two of a suit?

Just interested if there is a consensus here.

In this spot I don't want to build a huge pot. Having a 5 way flop makes it less likely the opponents will bluff. In this spot I lead 2/3 and mostly fold to a reraise. If I get called I might check fold the turn most of the time, and bet a Q K or A.

J72o b/f 1/2 pot

JT2ss c/f flop bet brick turns

dr's lines are fine/maybe optimal.

checking both flops can't be horribad.

Originally Posted by drmcboy

J72o b/f 1/2 pot

JT2ss c/f flop bet brick turns

I don't get why the second is a c/f?

Is it because we're in a tough spot if we get a caller or two and a draw hits and we'd just rather avoid that situation?

If we're a little shallower, say 20bb, can we even c/r this flop, since there are so many draws that will probably continue?

How does having 20 bb affect either? 15?

JTx 2-tone hits the range of ... uh.. everyone. Expecting to win/take it down with 4 limpers in is extremely optimistic.

statistically we still have the best hand though, don't we, against their probable ranges of scs, low pairs, random crap?

Are we that much more afraid that someone has JT to make this a c/f?

The problem is JTx hits middle connectors as well as big cards like QJ/KJ/KQ. People limp all sorts of Jx, Q9, 98 type hands and we're never going to be way ahead of 4 on that board.

Originally Posted by baudib

The problem is JTx hits middle connectors as well as big cards like QJ/KJ/KQ. People limp all sorts of Jx, Q9, 98 type hands and we're never going to be way ahead of 4 on that board.

I guess I was just trying to ascertain HOW MUCH of a difference there is between the two textures. QJ and KJ hits the first flop too. Do people not want to get it in against KQ, assuming random villains will spazz out with their draws too? Re the limpers with Jx, there's no difference to the first texture.

As you might imagine I've never used software, so maybe it's just a trivial spot that noone really bothers analysing, but I think it's interesting and I would like to learn how plays should differ according to texture and stack sizes, and also in relation to how many fewer limpers there have to be.

Another thing is, how many people just make assumptions about players minus a read at this stage in the tournament? EG, if the flop was J45 2 tone, are we more likely to want to get it in with J3 against flush and straight draws? Or do we just fold because people are more likely to have 2pr than those hands?