DON - Fold or call a shove with trips?

Unlike most other post-flop DON hands, this is a genuinely tough spot. Slowing down with trips is hard and harder still with 3 Queens and an Ace kicker when there's only two hands we're behind. We have to weigh that against the natural instinct to fold to aggression in DONs.

Fold or call?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 10.8 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (10 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+2 (t1500)
MP1 (t1490)
MP2 (t1460)
MP3 (t1470)
CO (t1500)
Button (t1470)
Hero (SB) (t1510)
BB (t1570)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1530)

Hero's M: 50.33

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t20, 3 folds, CO calls t20, 1 fold, Hero calls t10, BB checks

Flop: (t80) Q, Q, 2 (4 players)
Hero bets t60, BB calls t60, UTG+2 calls t60, CO raises to t220, Hero raises to t480, 2 folds, CO raises to t1480 (All-In), Hero calls t1000

Turn: (t3160) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t3160) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t3160

This will probably sound weird but I tend to just fold AQo PF here in a DON. If you aren't comfortable getting it AI with the 3rd nuts then this hand is very likely winning you a small pot and not winning too many big ones (most likely losing big ones!). But it's AQ! .... I know but I've learned that in DONs this is a small winner, big loser type hand.

As played, I don't play the non-turbos but I am never folding here. I see enough crazy re-raises with Qx, slow-played AA or KK, PPs or FDs to pretty much never fold in these spots.

I'm not a huge fan of your raise size. I prefer to just shove over his reraise, since the money is going in anyway if he has Q2 or 22 and if he has Qx another flush card may just spook him and you won't end up stacking him. This guy is almost never folding Qx to a shove here.

If your question is whether to fold after he shoves, I certainly don't think you can fold after you 3-bet getting 2.5:1 given his betting range.

The alternative way to play the hand is to call the flop bet, giving him the opportunity to bluff or bet weaker hands on the turn/river, while giving him the opportunity not to extract the maximum with a FH. Players often tend to get tricky in these spots and put in smaller bets instead of hand ranging you properly and getting it AI by the river. I tend not to like this line since we are OOP and we allow him to get away with checking the turn/river with weaker Qx hands.

In a limped pot, I take my shot for half a bb with AQo. And, when I flop trips, I may kick myself when there is aggression. But, I am not laying this down, especially in a $10.80. What other flop were we looking for? I don't see this as being a "tough spot" at all.

Originally Posted by Nakamura

This will probably sound weird but I tend to just fold AQo PF here in a DON.

It doesn't sound weird - it's what I do too in the early stages ordinarily. I'm definitely rusty having taken a break at the end of last year.

Originally Posted by Nakamura

As played, I don't play the non-turbos but I am never folding here. I see enough crazy re-raises with Qx, slow-played AA or KK, PPs or FDs to pretty much never fold in these spots.

I'm not a huge fan of your raise size. I prefer to just shove over his reraise, since the money is going in anyway if he has Q2 or 22 and if he has Qx another flush card may just spook him and you won't end up stacking him. This guy is almost never folding Qx to a shove here.

If your question is whether to fold after he shoves, I certainly don't think you can fold after you 3-bet getting 2.5:1 given his betting range.

The alternative way to play the hand is to call the flop bet, giving him the opportunity to bluff or bet weaker hands on the turn/river, while giving him the opportunity not to extract the maximum with a FH. Players often tend to get tricky in these spots and put in smaller bets instead of hand ranging you properly and getting it AI by the river. I tend not to like this line since we are OOP and we allow him to get away with checking the turn/river with weaker Qx hands.

It's hard to argue with any of this and I agree with Chopper too. In DONs though, there's definitely a point where folding (or checking) - submitting to aggression - stops being our default play and becoming the aggressor takes over. I think the line is somewhere between 2 pair on certain boards and trips on certain boards.

It's a potentially interesting discussion though this isn't the best example.

i also think there is a "stage" at which we become more aggro.....both in the tourney and in a hand. in tourneys, typically 50/100 levels. in hands, typically the turn when our equity is strongest should we still have any playability with stack sizes.

most important point is what nak said about flop raise, this size doesn't make sense vs anything. It's easy for non Qs to fold, but makes the price very good for a FD since you clearly have Qx and you're never going to fold so it's ~2500 to him to try and win what is out there now plus the rest of your stack. If the plan was to fold to a turn spade instead you're giving worse Qx a chance to "bluff" you out if they don't care about the spade, or semi bluff you out if the have something like KsQh. Or they don't do that but then find a fold on the river after you shove into the world's spookiest board.

Originally Posted by drmcboy

most important point is what nak said about flop raise, this size doesn't make sense vs anything. It's easy for non Qs to fold, but makes the price very good for a FD since you clearly have Qx and you're never going to fold so it's ~2500 to him to try and win what is out there now plus the rest of your stack. If the plan was to fold to a turn spade instead you're giving worse Qx a chance to "bluff" you out if they don't care about the spade, or semi bluff you out if the have something like KsQh. Or they don't do that but then find a fold on the river after you shove into the world's spookiest board.

Totally agree. The raise plain sucked and I can't explain it other than the fact that I'm a little rusty.

I agree. I fold A-Q PF early in a DON. But I would just fold this. With that many limpers and the level of play I could definitely see someone with q-2 or 2-2. And there also a flush draw out there. I would just bite my tongue and fold and wait for a more opportune moment. Although if you do call and win it'll be easy sailing into the money.

But I'm for sure folding here. There will be way better times to make that money back. Just my 2 cents though. A very tough position right there.