10nl JTo on BU, TP mono-flop v. lag monkey

pfr is spazo fish , we've tangled twice directly, once he flatted my pre3b and spiked 2p w/ Q3o on MONo board, I had AA, and got it in on flop after he c/r .

Next I hit quad 7's on 377 flop, i called the flop 3-way on BU, turn was a K, and he spazzed out w. AQ and so. Ive only seen him really try bluffing ott, Evrytime he's raised OTF he's had at least 2p that I've seen. Not that I think he's honest john otf. just what I've seen

hate the fold?

Revolution Gaming Network - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $9.90 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
BB: $9.26 (VPIP: 36.07, PFR: 16.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 61)
UTG: $12.74 (VPIP: 23.26, PFR: 16.28, 3Bet Preflop: 8.77, Hands: 130)
MP: $8.01 (VPIP: 50.34, PFR: 35.37, 3Bet Preflop: 9.80, Hands: 162)
CO: $5.13 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Hero (BTN): $10.71

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has T J

fold, MP raises to $0.25, fold, Hero calls $0.25, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.65, 2 players) 3 T 4
MP checks, Hero bets $0.33, MP raises to $1.50, fold

Dont like pre. Dont like yr flop size unless yr trying to induce spazz.

I bet flop a little bigger, around $0.45 and I am probably gonna call this c/r and see another card.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

I bet flop a little bigger, around $0.45 and I am probably gonna call this c/r and see another card.

basically why i posted, hate almost everything I did here , even pre not wild bout. just wanna hear what you guys thought.

I try to avoid giving advice on 6-max, so grain of salt.

I don't see what the problem is with PRE.

I think JTo plays super-easy post-flop most of the time, and isn't really weak enough to 3-bet as a bluff or strong enough to 3-bet for value against all but the fishiest of villains.

Assuming he is a complete spazz we can play really tight here and still make loads of moniez. I dunno what your ranges are though maybe folding JTo would be too tight.

If you are going to call pre then this is just a really shitty flop. And if he is bluffing loads then we can just stack him like all the time w/flushes, nut flush draws, sets, etc etc. I don't see any problem with bet/fold, I mean maybe the sizing is a little off but I don't think making it any bigger has any real benefits.

Originally Posted by WeldPhaser

basically why i posted, hate almost everything I did here , even pre not wild bout. just wanna hear what you guys thought.

Nothing wrong with pre imo.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Nothing wrong with pre imo.

Normally this is in my ip flatting range, but v. this dude may be better to stack him ith a tighter range, kinda lke I already had been doing.

Originally Posted by WeldPhaser

Normally this is in my ip flatting range, but v. this dude may be better to stack him ith a tighter range, kinda lke I already had been doing.

Flatting this IP v a normal MP opening range has to be pure spew unless you have some kind of postflop read like they c/f way too often.

Fuck this is such an obv fold pre I wanna be sick at all this nonsense being talked

Originally Posted by kickass

Fuck this is such an obv fold pre I wanna be sick at all this nonsense being talked

Given how wide Villain is, and that Hero is IP, taking into account the 2.5x open...

Why do you think it's such an obv. fold? I don't see it.

Originally Posted by WeldPhaser

Normally this is in my ip flatting range, but v. this dude may be better to stack him ith a tighter range, kinda lke I already had been doing.

Villain is 50/35/10...JT plays well post-flop and you have position. Obviously if you tighten your range you can't really go wrong but I call pre here for sure.

Do you like hitting a pair and calling down do you like missing and folding do you like bluff raising air? Plans on how to win, not oooooh I has Broadway!

I do like all of those things, actually.

Your non-answer is not compelling.

Lol good for you. If im wrong im surprised.

Whether or not you're wrong is of far less relevance to me than whether or not you'll participate in this discussion in a meaningful way.

I'm honestly curious about your analysis, and I'm asking you nicely:
Please, Mr. Kickass, would you elaborate on why you think this is an obv. fold?

This hand doesn't have three streets of value, but is a pretty great hand to check back, given it can call twice in almost all runouts

Right im not good at explaining myself so this is all yr getting. We flopped a pair+draw (prolly as good as we are ever gonna flop)and folded to the spazzy fishes raise, how can the preflop call be profitable?
we know for certain villain is calling 3bs with all kinds of junk so why would we ever call villain with any kind of decent hand? im sure equity wise pre flop our hand is fine vs villains range but I dont see you making any money in this spot. Position on a fish is obv great but the fact that we cant flop a good pair very often means we are gonna be put in very difficult spots vs a villain willing to apply all kinds of pressure.

What draw did we really flop though? This is an awful flop for a hand like JTo, not even close to being the best flop we are ever going to get. However your overall point is very solid and I think correct and we should fold JTo here.

You should really work on explaining yourself clearly and succinctly too (bit hypocritical I'm sure) because refining your own thought process is very important.

I would rather 3b this hand pre small'ish and iso the big fish. That being said it also looks like SB is a fish. I don't hate calling this pre if you're good at playing post flop and won't get lost too much in marginal spots.

Originally Posted by kickass

We flopped a pair+draw (prolly as good as we are ever gonna flop)and folded to the spazzy fishes raise, how can the preflop call be profitable?

Flopping a pair + J-high FD is not really "as good as JTo ever flops". The real use of JTo (and other OSC) is to mine for straights. The massive power of JT is that it can make 4 straights, all of which are the nuts, and it gets paid by QQ+ a ton of the time. This should more than make up for the vast majority of the time Hero folds OTF.

Originally Posted by kickass

Position on a fish is obv great but the fact that we cant flop a good pair very often means we are gonna be put in very difficult spots vs a villain willing to apply all kinds of pressure.

If Villain is an aggro-fish, why are your standards so high to continue to their aggression? It seems like Villain's wider range gives Hero a lot more value hands pre. If Villain is going to keep firing indiscriminately post-flop then Hero can play fit-or-fold with a minimal amount of subterfuge and still make plenty of monies off this whale.

The counter argument to the implied odds of JTo is that yes it can hit a lot of straights, but when a caller does hit straights it is VERY obvious. This is part of the reason I don't hate 3b here, cause we're not expected to have JT in our range and we iso the fish with two high cards and we have position such that we can pot control.

I was just saying continuing to aggression is hard. Villain will always have tonnes better in his range but we have to console himself with the knowledge hes prolly in front of villains range. These spots are hard and given the rake are prolly not worth the variance given how easy exploiting this villain is
I agree I was over exaggerating the strength of our hand on this board by generalising it to top pair plus draw.
Better pairs in small spr pots btw are the easiest way to exploit aggro fishes.

Obv griffy is tonnes better than me at this shit. So go with his advices. My opinions are based on my experience, loosing stacks to fish is tilting to say the least.

Originally Posted by kickass

Obv griffy is tonnes better than me at this shit. So go with his advices. My opinions are based on my experience, loosing stacks to fish is tilting to say the least.

Yah again like my post said, a lot of it depends on how many mistakes you are prone to making with marginal holdings.

Also my advice should always be taken with a grain of salt given I haven't played these stakes in a v v long time, so I have no idea how these games or how these villains are playing these days.

fold pre, bigger on flop

I definitely don't mind pre. Think making a small 3-bet here is also pretty good though. I'd definitely check flop vs this spazz as our hand plays very comfortably on turns and rivers and we can happily induce spazz and call down by checking back.