A possible spot for a very loose preflop call.

Reraiser is 24/19 reg who i have tons of reads on. The big one for this guy in this hand is he doesn't cbet without a hand. Hijack is 18/12 and not tricky. Pretty much I'm playing a flop I hit big and also pushing on flops they both check (besides junk ones since a pp probably will call me).

PokerStars Game #8174904085: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/29 - 00:08:26 (ET)
Table 'Themis V' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: redgrape ($101.55 in chips)
Seat 2: DougieG20 ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: FGators26 ($92 in chips)


Seat 4: ftnillini ($117.80 in chips)
Seat 5: HijackTheBox ($174.85 in chips)
DougieG20: posts small blind $0.50
FGators26: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Td 9d]
ftnillini: folds
HijackTheBox: raises $3 to $4
redgrape: calls $4
DougieG20: folds
FGators26: raises $14 to $18
HijackTheBox: calls $14
redgrape: calls $14????








I'm pretty confident my flop play was good but if you want to comment go ahead.

*** FLOP *** [9c Ad Js]
FGators26: checks
HijackTheBox: checks
redgrape: bets $83.55 and is all-in

Well first off you should probably switch tables here. Fgators is like a god over at 2p2... and Dougie G is a lite 3bettor, and they both have position on you. This is a standard call for me PF. Your 3 way and you have a strong multi way/implied odds hand.

I really don't like PF, not sure about how good flop is either.

Originally Posted by Jager

Well first off you should probably switch tables here. Fgators is like a god over at 2p2... and Dougie G is a lite 3bettor, and they both have position on you. This is a standard call for me PF. Your 3 way and you have a strong multi way/implied odds hand.

The flop is good right too? I'd like to hear more on PF because you're normally on the loose side Jager.

like i told you... i hate preflop but the flop is good.

It's very close, you can put Cgators on a very narrow range, say JJ+/AK (if that). Your position is only good if they both check, as any cbet by Cgators pot commits him (with, at a minium, TPTK). Also, given that you only called a raise and a reraise, that puts you on a very narrow range too (either a low/mid pp, or a sc, sc+1). Finally, if Hijacks has a hand like AJ+, the only decision is on the flop. (If it's A high Hijacks will get it all in, if not Cgator gets it all in). You'll have no folding equity on a reraise on the flop since they'll be pot committed (baring mono or straight flops).

I don't think you'll have the odds to call (push over) a cbet with a draw or a pair. With deeper stacks, I think it's a great call.

The push is strictly a judgement call. Can Cgator lay down KK/QQ on an A high flop? Would CGAtor check a flop like this with AA/JJ? Would Hijack check this flop with AK/AQ?

Finally, is there any way that Hijack folds AK/AQ if Cgator folds.

Then again, you're the one with the reads. I'm curious how it turned out.

I think that if you hit preflop or if they have a bad flop SOME players have a tendancy to give up. I am sure Fgators would fold...not sure about Hijack though. I would not have pushed, maybe bet like 40ish.

I don't think If i'm in a situation where it may or may not be +EV, but if I hit I am almost assurd of getting a stack, I play. I would also call this PF with any pair, SC, or any good implied odds hand. Also Gators is probably squeezing here with anything from a SC to QTo. I don't think he has anything. As played you are repping 99, which is why I think a more value type flop bet in position might be better.

preflop is standard for me but postflop sucks

preflop is marginal at 100bb but seems o.k. based on your reads

I think betting 45$ on the flop reps more strength (of course with intention of calling a push).

betting any amount on this flop seems bad (maybe im thinking too first level)

Originally Posted by Jager

Well first off you should probably switch tables here. Fgators is like a god over at 2p2...

if by 'god' you mean one of the most hated posters there, and one that had a 100? buyin 'downswing' because he is so bad, then I'd agree.

Originally Posted by Lukie

Originally Posted by Jager

Well first off you should probably switch tables here. Fgators is like a god over at 2p2...

if by 'god' you mean one of the most hated posters there, and one that had a 100? buyin 'downswing' because he is so bad, then I'd agree.

Rofl. I got 400 hands on each and I'd say they're nothing special. DougieD is a 15/10 nit and the other guy is spewy in spots he shouldnt be (overvalues blind defense and cbets a bit much, counter to what OP's original read is).

That being said, folding preflop in Hand 1 is fairly standard. What the hell are you trying to rep here postflop? Strength???

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Originally Posted by Lukie

Originally Posted by Jager

Well first off you should probably switch tables here. Fgators is like a god over at 2p2...

if by 'god' you mean one of the most hated posters there, and one that had a 100? buyin 'downswing' because he is so bad, then I'd agree.

Rofl. I got 400 hands on each and I'd say they're nothing special. DougieD is a 15/10 nit and the other guy is spewy in spots he shouldnt be (overvalues blind defense and cbets a bit much, counter to what OP's original read is).

That being said, folding preflop in Hand 1 is fairly standard. What the hell are you trying to rep here postflop? Strength???

weakness?

I have 700 hands on DougieG20 18/14/6<---
I don't think Fgators is that great, but every time one of the $100nl players at 2p2 get in a hand against him the headline is 'BIG HAND vs FGators HOW'D I DO??????'

With an $80 stack in a $50 pot, it's pretty standard for me to just push with any hand I'm betting.
What exactly are opponents checking the flop with that is calling the push/a $40 bet?

Probably more importantly what kind of flop is anyone betting? Is there one?

one that makes me at least 40% against an overpair usually

Originally Posted by gabe

one that makes me at least 40% against an overpair usually

I think an overpair is calling against my image.... Acutally, maybe they could convince themselves of a fold.

a 28/19 who never bets the flop without a hand? Are you sure?

PF is OK, but high variance. Flop... I just think one of them has a big ace and doesn't fold. Also, 1 low card would be better because at least then you could have a set. All you can have here is 2 pair/draw... and they might not believe AJ/A9.

Finally, you have lots of redraw outs, so I kind of like a free card. Danger there is that one of them bets the turn and you will have to fold.

I'm interested to know what player 3bets preflop then doesnt lead the flop? I think there is strong chance you're getting taken for a ride.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

I'm interested to know what player 3bets preflop then doesnt lead the flop? I think there is strong chance you're getting taken for a ride.

In a multiway pot with A high and you have KK/QQ, your a nit, and you don't cbet when you dont hit. That's what.

I'd also like to say that they both instafolded, but im not going to be result oriented.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

I'm interested to know what player 3bets preflop then doesnt lead the flop? I think there is strong chance you're getting taken for a ride.

In a multiway pot with A high and you have KK/QQ, your a nit, and you don't cbet when you dont hit. That's what.

What would the non-nits at FTR do? Checking an A high flop with KK/QQ to induce a bluff was the hot shit round here.

About the results orientedness...

Code:

Board: 9c Ad Js 

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	20.821%  	20.82% 	00.00% 	         44523 	        0.00   { T9s, T9o }
Hand 1: 	79.179%  	79.18% 	00.00% 	        169317 	        0.00   { KK-QQ, AQs+ }

p = prob they fold
we want ev > 0
prob fold * pot + prob don't fold( equity*pot - villain's equity*bet) > 0
p * 54 + (1-p) (0.21*137 - .79*85) > 0
54p + (1-p)(-38) > 0
92p > 38
p > 40% for zero eV

So if hero gets called, his expectation is -38, if he doesn't get called it's +54. If villain folds 50% of the time this has an expectation of +$8. I can't say if 50% is reasonable. (and I hope my maths are right)

It also wouldn't kill you to start using the hand converter

Postflop sucks

Well given your EV calc swigg i guess postflop is bad. Except everyone here seems to not care about my read on Fgators that he doesn't cbet if he doesn't have a hand (he's also straightforward) and No reads on Hijack the box but they both almost insta checked I really think I may take this down >50% of the time.

Like I said Gators is squeezing this hand, he has very little and won't stack off with the Axx flop. Hijack has probably got a smaller PP maybe even TT, and he isn't stacking off on the Axx flop either.

Originally Posted by gabe

preflop is standard for me but postflop sucks

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Probably more importantly what kind of flop is anyone betting? Is there one?

Originally Posted by gabe

one that makes me at least 40% against an overpair usually

gabe, do you ever bluff this flop?

no, i never ever ever ever would pure bluff in this spot

If you're going to bet push is bad, you could bet 3/4 the pot and have it work out the same way and you'd save your stack. I'd be more likely to do that than push FWIW. Also, this isn't complete bluff. He has bottom pair and 2 backdoor draws; thats the nuts.

yea i check and hope to pick up alot more outs before trying to bluff

I think that checking this flop is bad. The reraiser was the first to check this flop, and the PF cold caller also checked. You have been given an opportunity to take this pot down, why not bet?

Originally Posted by Jager

I think that checking this flop is bad. The reraiser was the first to check this flop, and the PF cold caller also checked. You have been given an opportunity to take this pot down, why not bet?

because villans checks don't really mean weakness in this spot

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Jager

I think that checking this flop is bad. The reraiser was the first to check this flop, and the PF cold caller also checked. You have been given an opportunity to take this pot down, why not bet?

because villans checks don't really mean weakness in this spot

Well one villan is straight forward, so your half wrong.