Quote Originally Posted by daven
I played a very much 'target the uber-fish for big pots' style to start with, and it worked well. I then read about red lines and started bluffing at pots where there wasn't a successful bluff to be had - or maybe bet-sizing played a role? Anyway, i got called a lot and lost far more big pots than previously, and although the redline was less steep it was still on the way down. However, now the blue line didn't compensate for this effectively. I also noticed that I started to win less big pots at showdown, and i'm not really sure how this happened. I think it's because I started winning pots on earlier streets when I should have been trying to squeeze out multi-street value.
I think a lot of what you say here, in terms of relating the red line to bluffing is a problem most people have. Certainly going for more thin value also influences it a lot, though this could be a stakes dependent thing. I feel like people at higher stakes have more of a propensity for hero calling than lower stakes (I could be mistaken), and so there's more value in going for a much thinner shove etc.

In terms of bluffing, its easy to just say "i'm gonna start bluffing more", but bluffing is definitely a skill that comes from a ton of practice/hand reading. If you're good at it, your red line goes up a lot and if you're bad at it, your blue line goes down a lot. I'd like to think that my hand reading is pretty good, and that's likely what is keeping my winnings positive despite my deathly blue line.

Quote Originally Posted by daven
Reading through your posts though, I think this is only part of the equation. You talked a bunch of getting into 20-80 spots far too often = obviously screwing your blue line. This likely also means that you're trying to get the chips in too early/aggressively when you're the 80% end of the bargain - allowing villains to too easily fold. This will also accelerate your red line, while not allowing the big pot showdowns that would leave your blue line looking a lot healthier.
In terms of 80/20's, this is just a matter of my adjustments to more aggressive pre-flop games. My adjustment was to stop 4bet bluffing as much and instead to 4bet/call with more pairs and 3bet more pairs and jam over 4bets (in spots I thought their 4bet bluffing freq was high).

When I say 80/20's I'm specifically referring to preflop spots with pairs where I'm hoping for preflop fold equity and decent equity when all in but end up getting into pair vs overpair spots.