Interesting riv decision versus good player

siralos as far as I know is one of the better regs at this level. He's been tagg so far, i've been tagg also, not out of line at all. I think flop and turn are standard but riv?
I feel like it's hard really to put him on a hand, I'd like to put him on a draw but idk which one, I'd like to put him on a big hand but it's likely he puts in a raise somewhere. At the time the best read i could put on him is something like QJs but i didn't really know.

Surely, there's not much value in betting no? My hand is very well hidden so idk what the hell he's going to put me on either.

POKERSTARS GAME #9503595296: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2007/04/19 - 15:03:52 (ET)
Table 'Hyakutake IV' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: eighdy ($347.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Gogol's Nose ($431.40 in chips)
Seat 3: jeffdamack ($476.85 in chips)
Seat 4: nittle ($614.90 in chips)
Seat 5: redgrape ($370 in chips)
Seat 6: siralos ($374 in chips)
Gogol's Nose: posts small blind $2
jeffdamack: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [4s 5s]
nittle: folds
redgrape: raises $12 to $16
siralos: calls $16
eighdy: folds
Gogol's Nose: folds
jeffdamack: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 7h 3c]
redgrape: bets $24
siralos: calls $24
*** TURN *** [Js 7h 3c] [Qs]
redgrape: bets $60
siralos: calls $60
*** RIVER *** [Js 7h 3c Qs] [As]
redgrape: ?????

pot = 200

you have 270 behind

I'd b/f about 100?

b/f???

if you both just made backdoor flushes then so be it. Make another standard bet and call a shove. $110-120 to go.

I assuming he means Bet/Fold. I think bet folding sucks when you runner runner a flush.

i would bet 100ish, maybe more

if the card wasnt an ace but was a spade i would push though

$130-40ish, make your line appear to be 2 pair...

so NO ONE checks here?

no checking is bad, he checks behind with too many hands that he was planning to call you down with

Let's say his range is AJ/JQ/10sJx/JK/JKs

JKs & 10sJ both callable here as played.

I don't think he is ever showing up with J9/J8 or M/Pocket pair here.

I think the reason why betting the river is best here is to take away the chance of villain turning his hand into a bluff and pushing.

If the above happens, do you call? That would make an interesting discussion

Originally Posted by n3wbs

I think the reason why betting the river is best here is to take away the chance of villain turning his hand into a bluff and pushing.

wtf? that would be super sweet. insta-call.

the reason we bet is that he'll call with a lot of hands he'd simply check behind with.

id open push or bet 100-120.

I highly doubt villain is floating two streets and then bluffing the river.
Anything villain will bet with on the river he will call with.
So just bet the river yourself.

im not scared of the backdoor flush.
Huh, I actually checked and he almost tanked and then checked behind with QJ.
I should have bet but at the time I really thought the only value was opp turning his weak J into a bluff, which would've been stupid.
I should've realized that hands like AJ/QJ that are in his range, probably make up most of it. I don't think a shove is good here because opp is going to put me on a hand like AQ, KT, a possible backdoor flush, or a set. The only thing opp would really be beating is a bluff, which on this board im perfectly capable of doing, but opp doesn't know this yet.

So yeah I like around $100.
Sucks the card wasn't a lower spade or else a shove would've been sexy.

Originally Posted by phantom_lord

Originally Posted by n3wbs

I think the reason why betting the river is best here is to take away the chance of villain turning his hand into a bluff and pushing.

wtf? that would be super sweet. insta-call.

the reason we bet is that he'll call with a lot of hands he'd simply check behind with.

Hi phantom, thanks for response.

Of course I bet for the same reason you are describing...

I actually didn't come across very well on my post, like I said this is all new to me so I apologise. I was trying to give an alternative route against a good player by checking and allowing him to turn his hand into a bluff.

Against the right player, I think you certainly could maximise your return here.

I really like a weak lead

We like a shove on a lower spade river card, b/c the ace is a scary card for him?

I like bet 100 on river too.

ISF- you just said obviously twice in one post

editing

Originally Posted by JL

I highly doubt villain is floating two streets and then bluffing the river.
Anything villain will bet with on the river he will call with.
So just bet the river yourself.

QFT

Originally Posted by Massimo

Originally Posted by JL

I highly doubt villain is floating two streets and then bluffing the river.
Anything villain will bet with on the river he will call with.
So just bet the river yourself.

QFT

That's horrible logic, is opp is betting everything he's calling with then we should check, unless he's calling with a wider range than he is betting with.

I usually either overbet AI or CR AI vs unknowns.

Usually he has something like KJs here so he's unlikely to value-bet river light on this board (very likely you're C/C w a hand like KK in his eyes I feel).

I just shove after thinking for like 20 secs.

I am thinking if you play 45s like this, you must maximize and somehow get a/i on river.

The only hands he bets on the river (that you beat) are sets, aces up, or nut straight.
He is probalby never raising w/out a (better) backdoor flush or KT - so shove.

I don't understand why the A is so much worse than say, T of spades. It makes (in his eyes) less likely we have a flush, and MORE likely that he makes 2 pair.

I guess if he never makes crying call with 2 pair, then just value bet. But you have < PSB behind, so isn't a push a value bet?

What subtle thing am I missing?

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

he's calling with a wider range than he is betting with.

I thought that was kind of implied with the first statement. Also, your bet is probably going to be bigger than his bet in most cases.

the A sux cuz now all his "LOL I'M CALLING YOU DOWN BITCH" hands feel scared and pwned.

AJ is usually the VERY top of villain's range here based on preflop/flop.

Originally Posted by n3wbs

Originally Posted by phantom_lord

Originally Posted by n3wbs

I think the reason why betting the river is best here is to take away the chance of villain turning his hand into a bluff and pushing.

wtf? that would be super sweet. insta-call.

the reason we bet is that he'll call with a lot of hands he'd simply check behind with.

Hi phantom, thanks for response.

Of course I bet for the same reason you are describing...

I actually didn't come across very well on my post, like I said this is all new to me so I apologise. I was trying to give an alternative route against a good player by checking and allowing him to turn his hand into a bluff.

Against the right player, I think you certainly could maximise your return here.

sorry, I was a bit crude in my reply.