a c/r thread

[meeloche]

I don't feel like I c/r enough on the flop and the river. Basically I don't have a range that I would c/r the flop or the river with. So I'm looking for good spots to do this with. Can you guys post some examples in this thread of situations where its good to be c/r with a certain range against a certain type of opponent.

I realize this is a pretty broad question but I'm hoping for some discussion on c/ring and hopefully some spots where I can add them to my game.

[EzDuzIt]

for the flop you can just c/r bluff a lot of flops vs opponets who cbet too much.

what do you do if you have a set oop?

river is basically if its a spot where they will vb thinly and you can rep something that they will have to fold often enough.

[dalecooper]

I tend to CR three hands vs. a preflop raiser (or an aggro player who always bets when checked to, even if he didn't raise PF):

- top two pair
- set
- combo draw (OESD + flush, gutshot + flush, pair + flush)

Not that I always do this - I sometimes lead or just check/call with these depending on the villain's tendencies and the board texture. But very often it's a checkraise.

Option 4 that you can add to that pile is a bluff. If you aren't doing 1-3 you definitely shouldn't be doing 4 though.

[AnTman_69]

Option 4 that you can add to that pile is a bluff. If you aren't doing 1-3 you definitely shouldn't be doing 4 though.

I dont quite understand this...elaborate?

[MuddyWicket]

if you never do something with a made hand an observant player will realise its always a bluff when you do it.

Which is why I like to keep cbets roughly the same regardless of whether i have a hand or not.

[thizzSantaCruz]

I c/r the flop a lot, draws, made hands, air when im feeling like doing something stupid.


Check-raising draws is never bad.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($274.05)
CO ($44.00)
BTN ($194.85)
SB ($68.80)
Hero ($117.10)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 5 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, BTN calls $1, SB calls $0.5, Hero checks

Flop: ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $3, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, BTN folds

Final Pot: $15

Hero wins $14.05 ( won +$4.05 )
BTN lost -$4.00
SB lost -$1.00



When maniacs auto bet when checked to I start check-raising a ton. If they call those too I do it with nut hands.

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
2 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
SB ($211.65)
Hero ($117.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 2 players) Hero is BB
SB calls $0.5, Hero checks

Flop: ($2, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets $1, Hero raises to $5, SB raises to $9, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($20, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets $20, Hero raises to $40, SB folds

Final Pot: $80

Hero wins $79 ( won +$29 )
SB lost -$30.00



I will also do it with sets, especially on boards villain is likely to cbet.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($100.00)
UTG+1 ($134.35)
CO ($101.30)
BTN ($193.50)
Hero ($100.00)
BB ($266.15)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 6 players) Hero is SB
2 folds, CO raises to $2, BTN raises to $7.5, Hero calls $7, BB calls $6.5, CO folds

Flop: ($24.5, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $26, BB folds

Final Pot: $58.5

Hero wins $56 ( won +$22.5 )
CO lost -$2.00
BTN lost -$7.50
BB lost -$15.50

[meeloche]

So right now I either b/3bet oop on wet boards with felting made hands/bluffs or c/c c/r turn on dry boards. (these lines are with a polarized range)

I feel like a c/r on a dry board blows out way too many hands that they may want to bluff the turn with and on wet boards you risk people checking behind draws or hands with showdown value that would call a donk bet.

What do you think of this and how to I incorporate c/r's into my game without changing these lines if they are infact good in your opinions.

[Deanglow]

I rarely if ever donkbet the flop anymore. I mostly just c/c or c/raise. What you simply have to do is unpolarize your range. Here are some hands from a session today.
This is against a 24 tabling (yes in 6-max) good regular. If he calls I probably have outs and backdoor draws are always a plus. I would always checkraise draws, a boat, a 10, random overs, and an overpair.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($400)
MP ($567.85)
CO ($250.40)
Button ($428)
SB ($629.70)
Hero ($438.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
3 folds, Button raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($26) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero raises to $64, Button folds

This one is against a good LAG player. I have backdoor draws. I also have a balanced range here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP ($110.80)
Button ($435.40)
SB ($835.40)
Hero ($406.70)
UTG ($400)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
2 folds, Button raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($26) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero raises to $64, Button folds

Guy here is a good TAG. I would be checkraising a huge part of my calling range preflop. Generally K high boards like this are good to craise.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($539.35)
MP ($501.50)
Button ($179.80)
Hero ($428.70)
BB ($449.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
UTG raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero calls $12, 1 fold.

Flop: ($32) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $22, Hero raises to $74, UTG folds

[meeloche]

couple of questions:

What was the reason you took out the donk bet?

How often are your flop c/r getting raised with air?

[Deanglow]

couple of questions:

What was the reason you took out the donk bet?

How often are your flop c/r getting raised with air?

I should say that I donkbet sometimes when there are more than 2 in the pot, but it isn't that often. Something like 77 on an 842r board into three people.

I think donkbets allow my opponent, in several scenarios where many think donking is standard, to play more perfect than if I c/c or c/r. If I bet out my 88 on a dry 1072 board and get raised then what? I pot my 88 on an 8d7d6x board because I am afraid of draws and he folds because it is so strong and transparent.

I'm not saying donkbetting is bad at all. I know renton and a lot of other guys around here do it with a very wide and are successful. I just think my style is better for me because I'm more comfortable with it. Experiment with different hands and scenarios and find what is best for you.

[meeloche]

Thanks.

I agree with above. I don't donk in situations where my hand has showdown value and I can't continue if raised.