5/10: cold 4bet with blockers

Villain is unknown, I joined the table one orbit back, no reads. I guess my line looks a little fos here but we can't just give up either? Easy flop cbet?

CO: $1,074.50
BTN: $3,259.30
Hero (SB): $1,055.50
BB: $2,400.00
UTG: $1,641.25

Hero posts SB $5.00, BB posts BB $10.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero has K J
fold, CO raises to $30.00, BTN raises to $75.00, Hero raises to $175.00, fold, fold, BTN calls $100.00

Flop: ($390.00, 2 players) Q 5 9
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($390.00, 2 players) 3
Hero bets $180.00, BTN calls $180.00

River: ($750.00, 2 players) A
Hero bets $700.50 and is all-in

Looks great yet again.

i like it if you are c/shipping flop

Ben I was checkfolding the flop because I generally expect villain not to steal this pot before the turn. I also don't expect him to bet top pair here against a cold 4bettor.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Ben I was checkfolding the flop because I generally expect villain not to steal this pot before the turn. I also don't expect him to bet top pair here against a cold 4bettor.

whaaaaaaat?

Rich I made two assumptions, do you disagree with both of them?

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Ben I was checkfolding the flop because I generally expect villain not to steal this pot before the turn. I also don't expect him to bet top pair here against a cold 4bettor.

so bet the flop

Originally Posted by sauce123

so bet the flop

I suppose it depends on villain, but I feel like villains range is often hands like TT-QQ.

I'd imagine most of his range is calling flop. Are you shoving turn?

If flop is checked through then we can drop AA/QQ and discount KK from his range, but if my reads are correct then he still has all his air in his range. By checkfolding flop and betting turn and river we would therefore seem to have more fold equity.

Is there some flaw in this logic or a flaw in my reads like Rich seems to suggest? If he doesn't fold TT/JJ to turn+river bets but would fold it to flop+turn bets, then I guess betting flop is better.

I think your equity on this flop is extremely low vs an unknown 4b flat range. I would check the flop and probably not put another $ into the pot.

Yeah I feel like strongest line to take is just bet flop/ship turn....I don't think this is that great a spot to c/shove for value because they're checking back so much trying to get to showdown and/or tarping. Bet turn/ship river is also pretty strong - but people might be suspicious of the flop check thinking you're now uber polarized since you wouldn't want to give a free card with KK/AA.

Maybe its just me, and maybe I'm wrong in this thinking.

But I'm super paranoid in spots like this, or vdeep 3bet pots, on Q high boards.

Feel like Q high boards are one of the worst to continue on from my experience.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Maybe its just me, and maybe I'm wrong in this thinking.

But I'm super paranoid in spots like this, or vdeep 3bet pots, on Q high boards.

Feel like Q high boards are one of the worst to continue on from my experience.

motherfuckers always got dat Queen

well, kqs is the single most likely hand to flat a 4b.

Originally Posted by Renton

well, kqs is the single most likely hand to flat a 4b.

depending on stacks, I've seen a fair bit of AQ, and even QQ too

I wouldn't do this vs an unknown, I'd at least like some idea of his btn 3 betting frequencies. Once called I'd just c/f this particular flop.

Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101

I wouldn't do this vs an unknown, I'd at least like some idea of his btn 3 betting frequencies. Once called I'd just c/f this particular flop.

I did c/(f) the flop. Not firing turn/river?

Probably not as your line looks a bit fos and once he checks flop I feel he has decent sd value nearly every time so he's folding the turn close to never, once you bet turn and get this nutted river I'd definitely jam but I think turn is -ev.

Yeah, I don't disagree. Besides as alexos said they always got dat queen. You guys should have told me before

Wow that is really scary with that kind of money. I personally would've folded. But I'm a nit so there's that. So did he call?

seems like he would bet the flop if he had a monster as its likely you will c/shove here after he flat calls 4bet? He will only bet if he wants to call your (probable?)shove??!!
Personally, I prefer the bet turn shove river to the bet flop shove turn move as we get a lot of info on the flop if he checks back. If he bets the flop I think you should fold.
Played the hand perfectly.

i think cold 4betting without a particular reason to is why we're lost on the flop

we're lost on the flop because we didn't plan on getting called. the reason we 4bet pre is because we thought he'd fold enough.

yeah i guess but without any read on their 3betting frequencies, i wasnt sure a unknown would fold enough

risking 175 to win pot of 280 so it needs to work 62.5%
actually is probably fine

so we assume his continuing range is pretty strong. i probably bet 1/3 pot on the flop since he'll fold some combos of AK TT JJ suitedstuff and we have decent equity vs flop calling range for a good price.

our range looks nutted since we're an unknown and we;re betting a pretty scary board