5-10 6M Hand

Realative stack sizes: Me 2k$ villain covers
I am dealt UTG+ and raise to $35 and get 3 callers. Pot is like 140 going to the flop, flop comes down I bet 100 into 140 one caller who is the villain who has me covered. Turn he checks I check back trying too not let the pot get out of hand planning on calling any reasonable bet on the river. River He shoves for 1850ish. Now usually this would be a fairly easy fold but I have seen him overbet shove huge like this a few times on rivers and he hasn't gotten a caller any of the 4 or so times he has done it so I have no idea what type of range is capable of doing it with. I folded in the hand but does anyone else think this may lean towards a call?

im still a midtsakes fish but i can see myself hero calling this a lot versu the right opponents.
At 5/10 id assume opp is a much better hand reader and with the pot being not a lot versus effective stack sizes its surely a fold for all those reasons.

Well..... hmmmm ill just give my thoughts.
Clearly he doesn't care if you have overcards, i mean obviously the shove isnt based on overcards being in ur range.
Do you ever play a set this way? Maybe if you're being tricky, but I'm thinking that's not the case. So is opp putting you squarely on a range of 22-AA that isn't a set?
Probably. Can you call an overbet with those? Probably not unless ur a thin caller. You don't have the As so it's reasonable that there is some Asx in opps range.
that would be reasoning for a call, however given information you have given us I'd fold too.
I think we need a lot more info on how you've been playing and how he's been playing.

ISF,
I have folded to turn and river aggression pretty much every time I have not bet the turn much without the goods. And pretty much every time I check turn I fold to a river bet.

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

ISF,
I have folded to turn and river aggression pretty much every time I have not bet the turn much without the goods. And pretty much every time I check turn I fold to a river bet.

How deep is he thinking? I mean it seems like he's a guy who runs over weakness, if he feels like you are folding everytime, which is completely reasonable, he'd probably push a lot of hands here.

WTF is this hand

Seriously. Very very sick spot.

Villain can't have a flush so I guess he must have 7s full or 2222 but I would really have a tough time folding this based on the shoviness of villain's play described in OP.

This reminds me of a hand versus ActionJeff someone posted.

Pretty much the exact same thing but the board was paired. Pretty much the exact same hand and ActionJeff overpushed into him. A lot of people said fold and some said call and pretty much i chimed in and said "Wait so isn't this really bad from ActionJeffs view with anything but a bluff?"

So I think if he feels like your capable of making a hero call, I'd fold. If he just thinks you a nit you may want to call.

Here's the thread.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...0#Post10237136

call.

Originally Posted by phantom_lord

call.

Please refrain from posting unless you are going to give more detailed responses and are remotely qualified to post in this forum.

Aces, if you only have $1k behind, is this a lot more of a call?

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Aces, if you only have $1k behind, is this a lot more of a call?

I'm just going to give my thoughts on this question but not trying to steal it .
I think opponent would be less likely to bluff this since he'd only have pot behind.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Aces, if you only have $1k behind, is this a lot more of a call?

I'm just going to give my thoughts on this question but not trying to steal it .
I think opponent would be less likely to bluff this since he'd only have pot behind.

hence, shouldnt we be leaning toward calling a lot here for the only reason we are deep...

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Aces, if you only have $1k behind, is this a lot more of a call?

I'm just going to give my thoughts on this question but not trying to steal it .
I think opponent would be less likely to bluff this since he'd only have pot behind.

hence, shouldnt we be leaning toward calling a lot here for the only reason we are deep...

I don't think we should call here without a really good feel for this player.
This is by no means a "standard" call, in fact it's a fold versus almost all players.
Here's what we know.
1. Opp has made an overbet frequently enough to make us believe he could be bluffing here.
2. Aces has been run over at the table and hasn't played back yet.

What we don't know that i believe we need some combination of these following to know whether to call.
3. Is opp spewy?
4. How deep is opp thinking? (Is opp the kind of person who will be like "If i shove here he cant call" or is he going "lol ive overbet the past 3 hands ill shove here with teh nuts.")

if weve only shown down sets/big overpair hands when weve called river bets then its a fold. Otherwise i lean to a call unless aces thinks opp is good enough to level us here with teh nuts

i think you should just fold...sure he could be making a huge move but he probably isn't. wait for him to give you reasons to start snapping him off instead of trying to make the hero call now

a fold's fine.

but what would make me learn towards a call is the fact there's so few hands that will look him up on this board. and he can be pretty certain you've none of them by how you've played the hand, so this looks like a good spot to pick up the pot, creating a good image for when he has the nuts or whatever and gets looked up by a lesser hand due to all his overbet shoving.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

if weve only shown down sets/big overpair hands when weve called river bets then its a fold.

That would make it more of a call.

But calling here is suicide without much tighter reads.

Fold.

It looks like the low limit "river donk bet." He's flopped a flush w/ his suited connectors or has a FH.

The most important factor is the pot is $only $140.00. I'm not making that call on that board unless I got the boat.

Yeah he may have a busted flush but I'm not comfortble paying that kind of price to find out.

the weird thing about this hand is that he knows you dont have the flush so its not a push a boat get a call from a flopped flush push, also he wouldnt push a flush here in case you turned a boat he would try and value bet.
saying this i would fold because honestly its just not worth it to find out if either of my above assumptions are true

Originally Posted by c-luvin

the weird thing about this hand is that he knows you dont have the flush so its not a push a boat get a call from a flopped flush push, also he wouldnt push a flush here in case you turned a boat he would try and value bet.
saying this i would fold because honestly its just not worth it to find out if either of my above assumptions are true

yeah this is why i m so confused and really really would want to call...

Originally Posted by c-luvin

the weird thing about this hand is that he knows you dont have the flush so its not a push a boat get a call from a flopped flush push, also he wouldnt push a flush here in case you turned a boat he would try and value bet.
saying this i would fold because honestly its just not worth it to find out if either of my above assumptions are true

I disagree that he wouldn't push a flush here fearing boat - you would not check behind a boat on the turn very often.

i disagree zenbits, i would check behind a boat here alot because on a monotone board As is such a likely holding for villain, the way the hand was played i would think the flush card hitting would induce action rather than slow it down. you wouldnt check behind trips but you would check behind a boat hoping to get 2 bets out of opp on river if flush hits.

i think it's a fold. you're unsure. wait for a better spot. wait till he gives you a reason to call that river bet. don't play the guessing game.

i usually think that massive overbet wants a call. although he may be less likely to get a caller - even if you call 1 out of 10 times, lets say, he stills make more than when he makes a proper size value bet and call 1 out of 3 times.

just fold. But betting turn seems super std for me here

Originally Posted by sauce123

just fold. But betting turn seems super std for me here

B/F or B/C ? I cant see B/C being a good line here on this board.

B/F but I think he almost never is C/R this turn

He may have:
WINNING HANDS
2 spades (36)
2 with any card (86)
2,2 (1)
T,T (3)
7,7 (3)
3,3 (3)
A,A (6)
TOTAL 138

LOOSING HANDS
As with any card (44)
Q,Q (6)
J,J (6)
9,9 (6)
8,8 (6)
5,5 (6)
4,4 (6)
any other A with a high card (A,Q A,J e.t.c.) (48)
two high cards (of K,Q,T) (32)
8,9 (16)
TOTAL 176
I think that if he had a winning hand he probably:
bet a logical amount : 75%
go all-in 25 %

if he had a loosing i think he would:
check 50 %
go all-in 20 % (he is an aggressive player)
bet a small amount 30 %
if the propability of having a winning or a loosing hand is the same (winning hands are fewer but more possible and there is also the possibility to have something else) then the fact that goes all-in tells us that we have the same possibility to win or loose.
So the bet is rather value but that is an all-in in a tournament so i think it s on the players opinion what he wants to do (i think most of the players would fold)