Thread to end all threads.

[jyms]

Ok, I have found myself in the unenviable position of most likely having to move sites since getting real comfortable at iPoker (NoIQ to be exact) almost 6 months ago. It had everything I needed.

Datamining
HEM support
Rakeback (or equivalent to about 30-35%)
other bonus's and some minor points for cash but nothing to write home about.

They are now moving networks as stated on their site and in this thread on 2+2 hereI have removed all of my BR except about $1200 to play some $100NL until I decide to switch, and play out my months race. (in 10th for $1K with 4 days to go)I have been averaging with all incentives about 55%RB when all is added up including points bonus, races and playerloyalty (RB). It was easy to deposit and withdrawal with moneybookers for me in Canada, and had a decent amount of tables during my daytime and euro evenings.

So here's what I want to do. I want to make a "where should I play?" thread for the sticky. Tell us why we should play where you play, or where you would go if you could and why. It doesn't need to be just for me at $100NL and $200NL plus RB, but why should micro players come, what's the benefits?

Do not spam this thread, I will remove anything off topic or considered spam for affiliate links, or RB deals from outsiders. Regular members have the gloves off if you stay on topic.

Here is what I know.

Full Tilt: has datamining and huge table selection, 27% RB and a good bonus for Noobs that clears slowly at the micros but I have already burned that bridge so no bonus for me.

Stars:: has great software and support, but beginners or new players to the site lose out on rewards until they accumulate a ton of points. Tons of table selection but no datamining

Ongame: Shit software, no datamining decent bonus and RB schemes. (loyalty programs)

iPoker: A ton of skins, lots of options to choose from for RB and bonus's, datamining and decent table selection

Cryptologic:Sites are dying. Tons of RB whores because of the system they have paying dealt hands and not contributed rake. Still easy to beat but it's like pulling teeth. They used to have some of the best RB and bonus's including monthly no reloads on some of the skins. No Datamining as far as I know.

Party:Used to be king. Great RB and bonuses are no more. Tons of tables and datamining but very little incentive to play. They have some point programs and bonus structures but I haven't heard anyone getting anything extraordinary. Tons of tables and fish that may make up for no RB??

others I haven't played in a bit
Everest
Boss:
Cereus: UB and AP (non starters)
Prima:
Merge:

and what about the new Entraction Network? Rumours are that NoIQ may go there so would it be ok to stay?

Ok so that's where we start. I will edit this thread as I see fit to give the general info and maybe even make it more info based in the future. Tell us about the Network you are playing and particularily about the skin you are on, since all sites have different offers and bonus's. include things like:

Datamining
Bonus
Rakeback
Traffic (times)
support and cashier benifits or troubles.

Also this is not just a benefits thread, tell us your dislikes and feel free to refute what others say.

[kmind]

Just so you know, datamining at FT is illegal now.

[jyms]

good to know. I tend to think of datamining alot because I think it helps for both being new to the site and moving up in stakes. I typically only datamine for those two reasons.

I do use Spadeeye for iPoker too, and would definitly purchase it for other sites as well to table select.

[Da GOAT]

just pick anotyher skin jyms, check out wot the rakeback affiliate is offering on other ipokwer sites

[jyms]

Well NoIQ just has stated they are joining ht eentraction network. No HM support and few players. I'm out.

[BigPapi]

I have been playing a bit at the Cereus Network at 100NL(or actually it's more 200NL with 0.50/1 blinds), but not too much for now.

The upsides are

-a bigger playerbase and more tables running then when it just was UB (normal euro evenings twice as much 100NL tables for sure, but I have seen other times when it was still a bit slow).

-New layout you can choose from, which has kind of the Stars and new Party look.

-Rakeback of 30% and still 1000 bonus dollars left. They have reload bonuses all the time

-buyin for 200bb directly which makes every table which starts a deepstack table basically

-HEM support yes, don't know about mining

Downsides:

-Still not the same playerbase/tables running as the bigger sites at the higher stakes

-the former sites had a bad name in the industrie for perfectly good reasons

-software has still shown some bugs, most notable the Phil Helmuth hand where he mucked the losing hand and won the pot

-Balance/Bonus/Details etc are recovered through your browser instead of inside the Cereus program (it bugs me, so probably some others as well)

-Almost all action is on the BBJ-tables which is basically just sponsoring some lucky bastard a part of your winnings

[jjbish]

Agree with BigPapi on Cereus. I think it's a very loose site too. Even more so since the merge.

Also IMO:

Non BBJ tables are usually much nittier than BBJ tables.

You can datamine (need AHK asolutesolution)(not sure if I'm allowed to put that here. Sorry if not)

Site sponsered Rake races are usually easy to get $ with normal play as they are based on points.

[BigPapi]

yes, it seems more loose then before, but havent played too many hands this month because of vacation (+/- 5k) and was hoping it was because of my great table selecting skills haha Will have a look at the datamining, thanks!

[jyms]

Won't play the cereus network as stated above. There was just too much neglect with first the AP scandal, then the UB scandal and now the Phil Helmuth scandal. I will never put money on a site like that. Just the fact that they are single handidly ruining online pokers reputation means they should be eliminated.

[bode]

Just so you know, datamining at FT is illegal now.

when the fuck did this happen? i've been out of the loop for 3-4 days, but damn.

[OhBollocks]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...nt-log-365575/

[lolzzz_321]

You used to play on prima, right? You have a eurolinx account?

[spoonitnow]

For what it's worth, if you aren't already Supernova on Stars then Full Tilt is a better choice for rakeback imo, though it's a tradeoff for timely cash outs and decent support.

[bode]

For what it's worth, if you aren't already Supernova on Stars then Full Tilt is a better choice for rakeback imo, though it's a tradeoff for timely cash outs and decent support.

i was just wondering about this today. Im playing around 15k hands of 200nl a month, and was wondering how long it would take and what my overall RB would be like if i switched back to stars and got supernova. i may make a thread on this and get some opinions.

[jyms]

You used to play on prima, right? You have a eurolinx account?

no, you asked me before

Thread kinda sucks, not sticky worthy.

[Chopper]

i'll nominate cake/sportsbook. juiciest RB for players (33% dealt, not contributed). and, the players are beyond awful.

sure, no HUD/HEM/PT support and the traffic is low. but, to me, that's not so bad once you note up the regs and learn them. the fact there is no HUD support keeps the ultra-tight nitty massive multi-tablers off the site anyway, which increases the fish:shark ratio a good bit.

i know you guys need that to make the rent (the ability to massively multi-table, but i've seen 3/6 LHE games as juicy as stars' 25/50c games...no lie.) the rakeback alone would support most expenses, i imagine. NL is fairly soft, too. of course, other games suffer tremendously from volume issues and availability. (for NL, rb at 200NL would have to be better than FT and/or stars on a table for table basis just on the structure of the rb deal alone.)

take that for what it's worth. i dont expect to see any of you suddenly show up, but i thought i'd throw in my fave anyway. well, if no one shows, thats good for me, so whatevs...lol.

[I Like Pie]

Good thread. I just learned that Carlos Poker will be leaving iPoker soon and my back up plan was NoIQPoker but apparently they are jumping ship too.
I might have to find a new home.

[jyms]

Well NoIQ has claimed they are officially done as of the 5th. I made $1K in the final Rakerace and have already received my last rakeback payment. All my money is on route to moneybookers and I now need to find a new room for my regular play. Checking Pokersitescout.com and bonuswhores has cleared up only minor details. As it stands, Stars and Full Tilt are far and away the big rooms with iPoker still ranked 3rd. Party is a decent 4th and if they do merge with Crypto (casino has already ) I would look at that if my RB stays intact with the Crypto skins. Lastly, Everest is 5th. I had some good success on Everest, and the reloads are ok.

So here is my options. Stars is out, it would take too long to earn enough Vpp's to get to a point of earning anything that would resemble RB, although playing some of the Sat's can add up.

Full Tilt is viable since I have RB and Table selecting would be profitable after getting some stats on players. No bonus available though.

Everest. I told them I would never come back and had a huge dispute with support. I have a way to reregister as someone else and get some decent rewards. The bonus and new reward programs are not clear yet what they are worth.

iPoker. they are easily my second choice behind whatever I choose to be #1, since I know the site, have tons of stats and it pays the bills.

Party, still very profitable without RB and tons of tables to table select. They have shit bonus and point deals and nobody has ever told me anything else. Not sure it's worth playing without any extras.

Ok, I still have the option to resign up with most sites, because I am evil that way, so treating any site like I am a first timer and getting first deposit bonus's are an option too. If I don't have the option then others can benifit as well from any knowledge you guys might have. So fill me in, what would you do if you could?

What's Everest's new points and rewards system like?
Is it worth it to play Full Tilt if you don't have too?
Does party have anything that would make it worthwhile?
Which iPoker skin has the best options?

Go.

[XTR1000]

I´m hoping that I can carry my RB to Party when they merge with Crypto. Until then I´m on Ongame/Tower. Loads of Bonus, hand and rake races, decent player base and soft games and 5max puts you closer to the fish. All of that makes up for the shitty sw imo.

For iPoker my first choice is Cd. They are giving out awesome deals, I´m not sure how to get them tho. Chili is pretty good as well, once you clear the sign up bonus they´ll offer a $/1k points deal, ranging from $12 - $20, depending on how fast the sign up bonus was cleared. For the time waiting for Party it´s not a bad choice.

[lolzzz_321]

Sorry, I forgot about this.

Um, Eurolinx, on Microgaming, they have a welcome bonus either $500 or $1000 that you have to clear @ 14x raked hands.

They have 40% RB using the contributed method that is paid daily.

Also a points store.

Also rake races, but you would need decent volume to compete.

Also cool that point store, rake races, and bonuses don't count against your RB .

[BigPapi]

how are the tables there? and are there a lot of them at 100nl?

[lolzzz_321]

Right now @ ~7pm london time there are ~20-25 tables going at .5/1 (about 40% of the tables going @ 100nl are in euros)

I found the 100nl tables to be soft but I have only played ~3k hands there recently in an effort to clear a bonus quicker.

[BigPapi]

sounds good, thanks!

[OhBollocks]

Nothing to contribute unfortunately but I'll be watching this thread with interest. I had been planning on hitting NOIQ next. Ah well.

Eurolinx sounds good. Would RTR be the best to sign through?

[lolzzz_321]

Yeah you guys can PM me for RTR invite, this means you too Jyms !

In addition to the Eurolinx races, RTR has races for eurolinx as well that are not hard to place in

[lolzzz_321]

like here:

https://www.eurolinx.com/en/2008-rak...der_boards.asp

[bjsaust]

Any way of comparing rakeback on contributed hands v's rakeback on...whatever its called when its your portion of all hands?

[dev]

At the rate my bankroll is going, I will outgrow my current site within the next 2 months. I play 8-10 tables at a time with 33% rakeback at cake. Cake is so small that there aren't enough tables at the next limit up. The rakeback setup is great, it updates daily and it's built into the software. I tried UB, and the rakeback I made was less than half of what I make at Cake. I tried bodog, but they only let you play 4 tables so my rakeback was about 1/6th of what I make at cake. I need to move soon, where can I go to still have the variance reduction and extra earn I get from RB?

I have an account at FT and it is not set up for RB.

I can definately make platinum or supernova on stars, but the RB equivalent is still significantly less.

I'm in the 'states, do I have any other options?

[lolzzz_321]

I'd email full tilt now and try to get yourself on the waiting list to tag your account for rakeback.

[dev]

I'd email full tilt now and try to get yourself on the waiting list to tag your account for rakeback.

Should I get a rakeback provider first or deal with that later? Do they all still offer the same amount? (27% last i checked)

[OhBollocks]

Everest. I told them I would never come back and had a huge dispute with support. I have a way to reregister as someone else and get some decent rewards. The bonus and new reward programs are not clear yet what they are worth.

Everest current first deposit bonus is $1000 and equates to >70% RB or so I am told (I havent worked it out myself), and it pays out instantly. For comparison, Ive cleared $215 in under 10k hands at $50NL FR. I'd imagine at $100NL 6max, and the amount you play, you'd pocket the $1k in a very short amount of time.

Plus Everest is soo much fishier than Ipoker (@$50NL anyway).

I know you've got some shit going on with your op. Maybe this might give your 'roll a quick boost.

[lolzzz_321]

I'd email full tilt now and try to get yourself on the waiting list to tag your account for rakeback.

Should I get a rakeback provider first or deal with that later? Do they all still offer the same amount? (27% last i checked)

They will make you go through an affiliate of theirs called rake back pros.

[Flups]

What about the Boss media network for the non-States guys? Anyone with full-ring experience there?

Also: Prima/microgaming seems fine for 6-maxers, but for full-ringers there's hardly any action, even when combined with Ladbrokes...

I-poker: played there a month at the micro's (20nl and 50nl FR) and will not play there again anytime soon . Hated the enormous amounts of shortstackers.

[Miffed22001]

Boss fr games are ok - you will probably be able get 6 tables going nearly always - but for volume its meh vs somewhere like stars/tilt

Games are ok - but you are just hoping you an get a seat where the fish is sat otherwise you end up playing a table of 9/7 life-freaks

5max games are pretty good on there - but you have to practise table selection well IMO

I play HU on ladbrokes/prima but even a fair 6max played can beat prima up to 100nl - then you just get 20 tables of 15/10 regs who are lame and never going t get to 1/2 or 2/4

tbh - and ill get hated for saying this - some of the best 6max games are on the Ub/AP merger network (fr games suck) but ive only played there when they have given free shit - and i wouldnt put 10k on there sites - but they cant be doing bad as there are 15k+ people on there

fwiw, i think everest is highly underrated for euro's who can play during the day - my only problem being the balance between volume and software vs game selection - there is no way i could play 10 never mind 15 tables on everest unless someone has written a starsplanner-esq program

[dev]

Cake rocks.

Seriously, the players are bad and the rakeback is the best there is. Everything is handled by them, so you can see your rakeback updated daily inside the client software.

There are 2 issues. One is that the HH lack certain bits of info and don't work with any tracking software. The other is that the software crashes once in a while. The crashes are a recent thing.

I sent cake an email detailing issues with their software and features that other sites have that are missing in their software. They sent me a link to a new beta client to check out and $50 in my account. The beta client has a few new features I really like (filters and searches for the ring and tourney games) and hasn't crashed. It's too bad I can't use database software with their site, because with service like that and 33% RB, I really don't want to leave.

[lolzzz_321]

yeah 33% dealt rb is so nice

[kingnat]

So I tried scanning through that 2p2 thread... and it doesn't appear that there are definitive answers about whether or not ftp can be datamined or not. Any one know 100 pro-cent?

[lockpull]

So I tried scanning through that 2p2 thread... and it doesn't appear that there are definitive answers about whether or not ftp can be datamined or not. Any one know 100 pro-cent?

1. The following types of programs are not acceptable under any circumstances:

* Shared hand history databases, including subscription services, and the exchange of personal databases

3. The following types of programs may not be allowed during play, depending on their specific use:

* Subscription services that provide extra information about opponents, such as tournament histories and statistics

4. Notwithstanding the above, the following types of programs are currently permitted:

* Database programs for the analysis of personal hand histories (i.e. hands in which the player is dealt cards)
* Programs that display statistical information taken from the player's personal hand histories
* Programs that assist in learning the skills of poker, provided that they are not used during play


I think it is saying that if you are dealt in the hand it is fine but if you are not then it is not ok. Is that what everyone else gets out of this?

[bjsaust]

I'm getting really sick of Everest. Half the time I take 4-5 attempts to login. Sometimes after logging in it can take minutes for my details to come up (i.e., shows me as having $0 balance). Offpeak times are REALLY quiet, generally with only nit/regs passing blinds and hoping to cooler each other.

On the other hand, during busier times you get some super fish.

I got a $75 bonus in March which required 3k points to clear. Thats pretty steep. Apparantly I only earnt 2.5k. It started March 9 and expired March 30, so I really only got 20 days, that pissed me off. I played 9.5k hands of 50nl 6-max in that time.

[bjsaust]

Hmm, maybe I need to take some of it back, looks like I got the $75 bonus paid even without finishing clearing it. Weird.

[Miffed22001]

Update on ladbrokes for the euro micro players

-Moved to microgaming (prima for the old-skool) recently

-6 max games up to 100nl are really quite good - few good players. 100nl is infested with nits but the game selection is tolerable

-FR has grown big style. For anyone who wants to play 20nl or 50nl FR there are regualrly 7-15 games running all with 30%+ seeing the flop (think pre-AIGEA type games where limping 22 UTG is +ev)

-Rakeback seems to have been removed - no incentive to play (not sure ifi saw affiliates with it though)