Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
Violence is quite rare among civilized people who aren't empowered by a state, and there's nothing in the NAP that says one can't use violence in self-defense. I fail to see how it is naive to hold civilization up to this standard, since it seems to form the basis of law and order in all cases of non-state-sanctioned violence. All the NAP is saying is that initiating force is wrong. If you think this is a naive stance, it must be because you believe it is not wrong to initiate force for certain non-defensive reasons. Your argument isn't addressing these specifics, but merely stating that violence is an inevitable consequence of interpersonal interaction and therefore it is naive to take a moral stance against it.
Because of the state, not because of the people. This should be obvious.