These people are our future

[wufwugy]

I want to know more about this.

My references to taxation are not about any specific tax code, but about collective social and economic activity that creates different levels of effective taxation on different classes. Even without an explicit tax collection criteria (which is still unheard of in any large society) it's about power distribution and how that itself effects into economic taxation.

Policy that effects into regressive taxation consolidates power into the special, policy that effects into progressive taxation redistributes power into the general. The effects are also strongly perpetual until a massive jolt like rebellion from the general (like what happened back in 1776) or trickery from the special (like modern corporatism). When power pushes towards consolidation into the special, things like human rights and free market and all that go by the wayside due to the general being born into powerless enough positions. When power pushes towards redistribution into the general, that trend reverses, and the gap between lucky/unlucky tightens.

When it boils down to it, the reason real taxation on what people "earn" is paramount is because the deservedness "system" is imbalanced, and if we don't artificially push power towards those who don't "deserve" it, we've inadvertently created an oligarchy where the vast majority of people born into the society do so with less rights and opportunity than average

[wufwugy]

When it boils down to it, the reason real taxation on what people "earn" is paramount is because the deservedness "system" is imbalanced, and if we don't artificially push power towards those who don't "deserve" it, we've inadvertently created an oligarchy where the vast majority of people born into the society do so with less rights and opportunity than average

This point really needs to be hit. I'm not sure how many people realize that in the US, average wealth is substantially higher than median wealth. This is a regressive society where the majority of kids are born into a position below average and a handful of special kids are born into a position above average. A primary purpose of progressive taxation is to tighten the gap so it becomes fair for those who haven't even been born yet.

Puts a taint on the deservedness idea, doesn't it? When everybody gets to keep too much of what they "earned", future generations suffer

[Lyric]

This point really needs to be hit. I'm not sure how many people realize that in the US, average wealth is substantially higher than median wealth. This is a regressive society where the majority of kids are born into a position below average and a handful of special kids are born into a position above average. A primary purpose of progressive taxation is to tighten the gap so it becomes fair for those who haven't even been born yet.

Puts a taint on the deservedness idea, doesn't it? When everybody gets to keep too much of what they "earned", future generations suffer

Who decides how much is "too much," and why do you think you are entitled to any of the cheese I make with my own two hands? Why do other islanders have a right to go into my hut and take my wine and cheese that I made with my own labor?

The island would be defined as "regressive" in your view as well, because the prolific worker would skew the average wealth higher than the median wealth, even on a five man island.

[Ash256]

Who decides how much is "too much," and why do you think you are entitled to any of the cheese I make with my own two hands? Why do other islanders have a right to go into my hut and take my wine and cheese that I made with my own labor?

Wait, so the other islanders don't have the right to go into your hut and take your shit but they do have the right to throw you in jail if you commit a crime?

I don't see why you think it's abhorrent that the state has the right to take your money but cool that the state has the right to permanently take your freedom/life.

Also your foot-stomping indignation against paying taxes is completely undermined by the fact that you feel a state is necessary to "enforce laws prohibiting murder, theft, and enslavement, maintain courts of law, and maintain a military.". You either want a government or you don't. By all means advocate a small government, but realise that philosophically arguing against taxes just has you whining about your own utopia.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Wait, so the other islanders don't have the right to go into your hut and take your shit but they do have the right to throw you in jail if you commit a crime?

I don't see why you think it's abhorrent that the state has the right to take your money but cool that the state has the right to permanently take your freedom/life.

Also your foot-stomping indignation against paying taxes is completely undermined by the fact that you feel a state is necessary to "enforce laws prohibiting murder, theft, and enslavement, maintain courts of law, and maintain a military.". You either want a government or you don't. By all means advocate a small government, but realise that philosophically arguing against taxes just has you whining about your own utopia.

The government takes in, what, 10 trillion dollars a year? You think they need even 1 percent odd that to provide all these things? The only thing that would get in its way is military but i'd be astounded if anyone in this thread supports big military.

[Lyric]

Wait, so the other islanders don't have the right to go into your hut and take your shit but they do have the right to throw you in jail if you commit a crime?

I don't see why you think it's abhorrent that the state has the right to take your money but cool that the state has the right to permanently take your freedom/life.

Also your foot-stomping indignation against paying taxes is completely undermined by the fact that you feel a state is necessary to "enforce laws prohibiting murder, theft, and enslavement, maintain courts of law, and maintain a military.". You either want a government or you don't. By all means advocate a small government, but realise that philosophically arguing against taxes just has you whining about your own utopia.

Taxation and a small government are necessary. I am opposed to redistribution of wealth, not taxation or government per se.

[Lyric]

Wait, so the other islanders don't have the right to go into your hut and take your shit but they do have the right to throw you in jail if you commit a crime?

I don't see why you think it's abhorrent that the state has the right to take your money but cool that the state has the right to permanently take your freedom/life.

Also your foot-stomping indignation against paying taxes is completely undermined by the fact that you feel a state is necessary to "enforce laws prohibiting murder, theft, and enslavement, maintain courts of law, and maintain a military.". You either want a government or you don't. By all means advocate a small government, but realise that philosophically arguing against taxes just has you whining about your own utopia.

I am opposed to all the island people forming an armed gang and forcing the most productive guy on the island to give them half of his stuff. Charity should be voluntary, and a mob of islanders with sharp sticks taking his stuff is the same thing as modern government taking half of Bill Gate's income and giving it to banks and corn farmers and bomb makers.

It just backfires and we can't see the damage it does because we never see how productive the hard working guy would be without the huge amount of theft at gunpoint (redistribution of wealth).

The whole point of government is to stop armed mobs, not become the armed mob itself.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I don't see why you think it's abhorrent that the state has the right to take your money but cool that the state has the right to permanently take your freedom/life.

Both are completely abhorrent, so both should only be used when absolutely necessary. I will allow the state to collect taxes for the purpose of protecting me from the harm of other people. I'm pretty sure there was a time where there were no jails, and the majority of humans decided to get together and say we want to be protected from the harm of others, lets all band together and pay for police and jail to help.