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 Originally Posted by JKDS
Dany eventually figures it out though, and adverts her death though right? Without any male bitches to help her. And Cersei, for all her arrogance, was being heavily manipulated by Varys into making all those follies.
I mean, its curious that a lot of characters dont have moms or grannys to get advice from (on point to what you're saying), but then we have the son-mother relationships of Robb-Cat, Bran-Oldnan, Tommand-Cersei, and I start caring less about that. Theres important male characters getting played and being stupid just as much as there are females doing it too. (Dany's brother, in addition to ppl previously mentioned).
I mean, you can compare Starks to Lanisters, and you got Sansa = Tommand, and Arya = Joffrey. These children are mirror images of each other, in their need for dependence (Sansa pair) and independence (arya pair). Theyre similar in maturity levels, knowledge of how the world works, respect for authority, moldability, etc. The only real differences are age and gender. Sure, arya had Jaquen provide plot devices for her, and shes being trained to use a sword and be an assassin...but how else does she do these things? Does 8(?)yr old arya read a book on swordsmanship and suddenly gain +5 to fighting? Or does she find the only other known female swordsman (Brienne) and beg to be taught by her (even though she isnt great)? Its a fact that men are the fighters in this universe...and theres sexism in that, sure...but within that world there isnt much Arya can do to improve if she isnt being taught by a man.
Like, if Arya were taught by a bunch of children of the Forrest girls, would you see an issue? Because if not, then i cant see how being taught by men provides an issue when theyre really the only people that can do so.
Dany didn't figure it out. She just rode off with her dragon. Maybe she retrospectively put it together in her last ADWD chapter, I don't remember, but that wouldn't change anything since it's retro
I honestly don't remember any of the manipulation Varys did to Cersei, but of course that sort of thing is expected. The point, however, is that she wasn't ever forced to think the really dumb things she did. Chapter after chapter was her loving her intellect while she was doing something that the reader already knew or suspected was myopic.
Robb-Cat: okay, and she leads him astray. So the one time we have a female mentor, she fits perfectly into the mold of being a moron? Setting Jaime free was an epic level of unreasoned thought, and it was one of the two most important pieces of her son being murdered. Count me not surprised that Zombie Cat was just as thoughtless as always when she spoke to Brienne
Bran-Oldnan: I haven't finished AGOT, but at least as far as the show is concerned, she kinda just told some stuff to him. Their relationship was nothing like Arya and any of her mentors. Osha in the show would be a better example for Bran, as that dynamic does exist, but I recall it not existing in the books, at least not as much as in the show.
Tommen-Cersei: they talk? Their relationship is something we're told is a thing that probably exists more than something we're made to see.
I agree that none of those things you listed are solutions for Arya, but my point isn't really about that. I'm not saying "why isn't Jaqen a girl?", I'm saying "yet again, the man and woman are in stereotyped positions". Not any one or even two examples can make the case though. It's more of a milieu. There isn't a problem with any of Arya's relationships, but when I look at all the relationships in the books and their key dynamics, I see the pattern I originally mentioned
Curiously, Cat was the main female in the position to be that "strong, reasonable man" who solves problems. But she turned out also to be a total nitwit, fully aligning with the stereotype. She was so obsessed with her own emotions that she couldn't see the great foolishness of her actions. I feel like this is the kind of device a writer who doesn't have empathic understanding of women would use. That's not a knock on GRRM, I'm the same way, and he is doing a great job of writing women like regular people. I only mentioned it because I think it's ironic that he gets so much credit for writing women so well when it seems to me that people making those claims aren't seeing the same old male perspective in the writing that they do with others.
Or maybe I'm way off, and chicks think it's super great seeing all the central females make super irrational/emotional decisions and needing the reasoned, calm, stalwart men at their sides
I don't have a comment about Viserys since I'm not into the AGOT meat. Dude still a relatively small, unfleshed-out character though.
FWIW, a lot of this is good normal stuff. The more I try to argue my point, the more I will make iffy correlations and seem like I'm claiming there's some stark theme. If it even exists, it's subtle and unintentional.
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