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I was referring to smoking indoors within the walls owned by non-governmental officials within business. I hardly see how posting a link to a picture that depicts owners of vehicles on roads of public property that is outdoors that might contribute to this thread.
The point was supposed to be this-- business owners (we're not just talking about bars but all businesses, e.g. grocery stores, family restaurants, malls, etc) are going to do whatever they can to maximize profit. This is understandable and the cornerstone of a capitalist economy. I do not have a problem with this.
How does this relate? Euphorism made a point that I absolutely agree with, it's NOT the government's job to protect you from yourself. It *is* however, the government's job, to some extent, to protect you from other people. Hence, laws dealing with murder, rape, assault, drunk driving, mass polution, and yes, even second-hand smoke (I'm not trying to put the last one on the same level as any of the others; I'm just making the point that I don't think the government is completely out of place here, despite being a libertarian myself).
Nobody is ever going to accuse me of being a left-wing, tree hugging liberal, believe me. Here's the thing though, I can control the food I eat, what I drink, what I do with my body, etc. What I can't control is air quality, which is why I tried to correlate pollution with the current topic. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have. I like clean air.
If you were me, you might instead reply with the following (a happy smoker n a train):
[img][image edited out]
Take that ! YAY for no relation !
I'm a smoker and I do not approve of the indoor smoking ban of bars and restaurants, etc. I do not feel this way because I am a smoker, I feel this way because rights were taken away from more people than just the smokers - the owners of the establishments. Your rights and my rights should not increase just because we walked into a place with walls surrounding us. The decision of smoking/non-smoking should have continued to be under the approval of the people who own those walls. Maybe their business will suffer, maybe it won't.
Were I the owner of an establishment (e.g. a bar) who's profit declined because of this new law, no doubt I would be upset. In my eyes, this is far and away the best argument you have. Maybe they will find happiness in that their patrons are likely now healthier people, but I doubt it.
Although your point is an unrelated one (I think your point was that: well, look at what happens when we let owners of things decide for themselves), I'll address it partially anyways... If you had your way, the following would take place:
Without even reading past this yet, I can guarantee you that you are going to jump to a bunch of asanine conclusions about me or about what I think just because you don't agree with me on one issue. Remember, I'm a libertarian and this is one of the only issues I'll cross the line on!
1) You would no longer be allowed to drink alcohol outside of your own home because I am annoyed and stressed out when people who drink turn obnoxious and loud.
a. http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4418/smokersb3.jpg (unrelated)
b. I would not like to see this happen.
2) Country music and Disco would be illegal.
a. http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4418/smokersb3.jpg (unrelated)
b. I would not like to see this happen. (not that you'll ever find me listening to disco)
3) No more cup holders or cell phones in cars - cup holders hold drinks that hinder the quality of drivers when used, while cell phones are obvious.
a. http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4418/smokersb3.jpg (unrelated)
b. I would not like to see this happen. (random tidbit-- driving under the influence is a crime based upon the increased probability of getting into an accident. However statistics have shown that driving just over the legal limit is about as dangerous as driving while sober and talking on a cell phone. I'm not trying to make any point, just thought I'd add).
4) The elimination of publicly owned mass transit.
What are you talking about? Have you ever read any of my posts outside this thread? Do you realize how much I think government ownership and government intervention generally sucks? I"d like to keep the absolute most stuff possible in the private sector. Remember when I predicted something about asanine conclusions? That was legit, fwiw.
5) No more airplanes owned by those other than the government, actually, we might as well throw in every form of transportation in there.
*queue up your own stupid photo here*
that's enough for now
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