Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
Ong, I'm pretty sure that someone smarter than I could use game theory to show that on an equal playing field with X players where Y is a majority and Q, Z, and K are all minorities, Y will come to dominate Q, Z, and K. Even if the bonds between members of all subsets of X are not particularly strong, collusion is sure to take place, and the majority will have an easier time successfully colluding.

I'd also like to point out that it is possible for all members of Y to reasonably claim that they are in no way racist. Yet their preferential actions as a whole create a racially imbalanced society.

Affirmative action, professional groups which cater to minorities, etc are all measures that seek to correct this naturally occurring imbalance. Are the the best solutions? I'm not sure.. there are probably better ones... but claiming that they are themselves the problem is just wrong.

Your argument is pretty much exactly the same as the libertarian claim, "Regulation just gets in the way of business and messes everything up!" The sad truth is that capitalism has no built in altruistic qualities.. take away regulation and we will see children in coal mines with a life expectancy around 25 years in no time. If we take away programs and organisations which set out to level the playing field, we will see the majority dominating and oppressing the minorities through collusion in no time.
This is probably the strongest argument against my position I've read in this thread. All I can say in response is that I don't see these groups themselves as the problem, they are just part of the problem. They do not succeed in bringing equality to the table, despite their intentions, they just further reinforce intolerance because they are exclusive.

I guess what I'm looking for is a playing field where there are X players and there are no majorites, because Y and Z don't consider themselves any different. Y=Z. But I know this isn't the real world. However, I feel it's important to recognise that's it's natural for humans to stick to their kind, as a rule to thumb. A lot of the Asians who come to England remain in their circle, they live in areas together and work together, meaning Y does not = Z. But people must understand, if minorities are given an advantage to counter the numbers advantage the majority have, then we are nowhere near acheiving equality.

I don't know what other solutions there are, if I knew then I'd be very famous indeed. All I know is that the way things are, there will always be inequality, and there will always be conflicting arguments about what it means to be racist, and how we should conduct ourselves.

All I can do is try not to offend people. If I do offend someone, well, I'll say sorry and leave them alone. I'll say to my friends "Why are people so fucking sensetive?", but I won't say that to the person I've upset. Will I change my behaviour? Perhaps, but it will be because I decide I am in the wrong, not because other people tell me. I'll decide for myself what's right and wrong.