Randomness thread, part two.

[rong]

Highest rated comment on a BBC article about US debt borrowing crisis


"So let me get this right . The whole world goes into meltdown because some selfish Americans don't want poor people to get healthcare.Or am I missing something."

[Savy]

Big Japanese pop star goes out on the town. Same age as Miley and the Bieb. Compare and contrast.

Wow, how fucking gay. Why on earth would you go out and not be coked up?

[abelardx]

Highest rated comment on a BBC article about US debt borrowing crisis


"So let me get this right . The whole world goes into meltdown because some selfish Americans don't want poor people to get healthcare.Or am I missing something."

Many Americans don't want the government to be in control of everything and tell us what we have to do especially with something as important as healthcare. It's amazing how libs think that the only good that is ever accomplished in the world must be done by the government.

[abelardx]

.

[d0zer]

Many Americans don't want the government to be in control of everything and tell us what we have to do especially with something as important as healthcare. It's amazing how libs think that the only good that is ever accomplished in the world must be done by the government.

I love the stereotypical republican image: The government shouldn't control anything, except for waging wars in foreign countries and executing people they're pretty sure are bad. How dare the government have a hand in healing people, but putting them to death? But of course!

[wufwugy]

Many Americans don't want the government to be in control of everything and tell us what we have to do especially with something as important as healthcare. It's amazing how libs think that the only good that is ever accomplished in the world must be done by the government.

So, you don't know anything about the ACA, do you?

[abelardx]

So, you don't know anything about the ACA, do you?

I know it should have been found unconstitutional and only got by on a technicality.

[wufwugy]

I know it should have been found unconstitutional and only got by on a technicality.

So, you don't know anything about the Constitution, do you?

[abelardx]

So, you don't know anything about the Constitution, do you?

I know that ad hominem attacks really aren't very clever.

[wufwugy]

So, you don't know what an ad hominen attack is, do you?

[abelardx]

So, you don't know what an ad hominen attack is, do you?

I know you're an asshole.

[jackvance]

All very good points but that's still not an ad hominem let's be clear about that.

[rong]

Lol x 3

[rong]

Actually 4, jv deserves one too.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Gotta love it when someone engages in a political conversation knowing that their end-game argument is, "You're an asshole."

[abelardx]

Gotta love it when someone engages in a political conversation knowing that their end-game argument is, "You're an asshole."

You're an asshole too.

[abelardx]

[wufwugy]

[MadMojoMonkey]

[Chelle]

Big Japanese pop star goes out on the town. Same age as Miley and the Bieb. Compare and contrast.

she seems nice. i'd be her frand.

also - is her hair lavender? if so 100% would be her frand

[wufwugy]

Japan looks kinda awesome, would love to go. Not a fan of squeaky women though

[NightGizmo]

I know it should have been found unconstitutional and only got by on a technicality.

What's the technicality? That it was ratified by the House, Senate, signed into law by the president, and upheld by the Supreme Court when challenged? Those bastard libs and their tricks!

[wufwugy]

inb4 he realizes that technicalities are essential to laws in the first place

[Chelle]

fuck. i couldn't find ricotta and the other cheese i want to make stuffed pasta shells. so, i got mozzarella and cream cheese. i'm not gonna make 'em til i know it won't taste like poop.

[boost]

It will be pretty awful. Don't do it.


Also, lol@ abel getting roflstomped by wuf.

[Chelle]

It will be pretty awful. Don't do it.

What would be the best type of cheese to use? I will be going out later to pick up a couple of things, so I'll probably drop by Whole Foods or Fresh Market, because the other grocery stores I can't fucking find ricotta in, and from all the recipes I've looked at, all of them call for ricotta.

Btw, thank you. I was actually hoping you'd reply, 'cause you know your shit when it comes to making foods.

[wufwugy]

rosetti cheese

[boost]

Ricotta is traditionally what's used. They'll have some for sure at whole foods. For stuffing, you don't want ricotta salata, it is a hard and drier-- good for salads.

Also, fresh goat cheese is great for pasta filling. You can mix it with the ricotta if you want. Buffalo ricotta is great too.

[abelardx]

What's the technicality? That it was ratified by the House, Senate, signed into law by the president, and upheld by the Supreme Court when challenged? Those bastard libs and their tricks!

The technicality is that it was a tax when it is not a tax. Chief Roberts alongwith the four dissenters all agreed that the federal government does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to force you to buy something they think you should have simply because you are alive. However Roberts then aligned himself with the four liberal justices in upholding the law saying that it was legal under Congress' powers of taxation even though the President and Congress never called it a tax.

[wufwugy]

The technicality is that it was a tax when it is not a tax. Chief Roberts alongwith the four dissenters all agreed that the federal government does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to force you to buy something they think you should have simply because you are alive. However Roberts then aligned himself with the four liberal justices in upholding the law saying that it was legal under Congress' powers of taxation even though the President and Congress never called it a tax.

It operates as a tax exactly the same was as all other taxes operate. Stop listening to idiots

[wufwugy]

And there is no forcing anybody to buy insurance. If people don't have insurance, they get taxed. Just like if people make an income of such n such, they get taxed

[wufwugy]

The Constitution is full nuances that mean all sorts of things. You'd do better to learn something about its history and application than to know nothing and claim foul

[Chelle]

Ricotta is traditionally what's used. They'll have some for sure at whole foods. For stuffing, you don't want ricotta salata, it is a hard and drier-- good for salads.

Also, fresh goat cheese is great for pasta filling. You can mix it with the ricotta if you want. Buffalo ricotta is great too.

Yeh, I was able to find it, as well as some asiago. Pretty sure it's the soft ricotta cause it's in a little tub thing, and the tub is a little bit squishy. I also looked at their sake, which I will most defiantly be trying some of.


I was looking at their bakery stuff, and I'd previously wanted to try to make some macaroons, and now my want to make them have increased. I've made eclairs before with custard filling, that shit was delish.

[bikes]

i really really like the new avicii album.

dear boy and dancing in my head and just delightful tunes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMScU2bRORE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktP--p6T-3c

[supa]

The technicality is that it was a tax when it is not a tax. Chief Roberts alongwith the four dissenters all agreed that the federal government does not have the power under the Commerce Clause to force you to buy something they think you should have simply because you are alive. However Roberts then aligned himself with the four liberal justices in upholding the law saying that it was legal under Congress' powers of taxation even though the President and Congress never called it a tax.

So, do you believe healthcare should be free?

[abelardx]

So, do you believe healthcare should be free?

Hospitals are required to give everyone stabilizing emergency room treatment. After that no one has to give you treatment if you can't pay. And people are routinely denied treatment they can't afford.

What's more ER treatment is not free, and if you're uninsured it is very expensive, at least $1000, and usually many times more expensive than what insured people pay. Of course you could default on your bill, but you don't have to be poor or uninsured to default on uncovered medical expenses.

If you're saying that people need to pay for something they already get, especially to avoid excessive rates for the 'good' people who are insured, that's not the issue. Poor people get significantly less health care than the insured and it is not free.

The fat in the system is with the lawyers and insurance companies. Want to bring down rates? Look at tort reform and ways to increase competition. Getting the federal govt involved is the least efficient way of addressing these problems.

But what I truly hate about Obamacare is that it creates a whole new class of criminals out of people who have done nothing at all. It criminalizes poverty. There are going to be many people who do not get covered no matter what the rates, because they cannot afford it or because they can't deal with the paperwork (like the mentally ill). Now they're criminals and that's bullshit.

[Savy]

Hey Canadians how's that free health care service you have over there? Ours is pretty awesome in the UK.

[d0zer]

Hey Canadians how's that free health care service you have over there? Ours is pretty awesome in the UK.

Still awesome! hi5 brits.

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

[boost]

Hospitals are required to give everyone stabilizing emergency room treatment. After that no one has to give you treatment if you can't pay. And people are routinely denied treatment they can't afford.

What's more ER treatment is not free, and if you're uninsured it is very expensive, at least $1000, and usually many times more expensive than what insured people pay. Of course you could default on your bill, but you don't have to be poor or uninsured to default on uncovered medical expenses.

If you're saying that people need to pay for something they already get, especially to avoid excessive rates for the 'good' people who are insured, that's not the issue. Poor people get significantly less health care than the insured and it is not free.

The fat in the system is with the lawyers and insurance companies. Want to bring down rates? Look at tort reform and ways to increase competition. Getting the federal govt involved is the least efficient way of addressing these problems.

But what I truly hate about Obamacare is that it creates a whole new class of criminals out of people who have done nothing at all. It criminalizes poverty. There are going to be many people who do not get covered no matter what the rates, because they cannot afford it or because they can't deal with the paperwork (like the mentally ill). Now they're criminals and that's bullshit.

that's funny, because the people you likely voted for are doing all they can to stop the ACA, including putting severe limits on the outreach groups tasked with helping those who need help with paperwork and explaining things like the fact that there are subsidies for various levels of income, some of them covering 100% of the insurance. These same obstructionist are then filling your head with talking points about how the mentally ill won't know how to sign up. They're fabricating the fear, then fanning the flames once the fire is lit, all the while successfully convincing you that the other guy is the arsonist.

If you stepped out of your bubble, you wouldn't make it so painfully obvious that you haven't the first clue about the ACA.

[abelardx]

And for those of you in Europe who don't understand Obamacare, this is not a taxpayer-funded universal health care system like you have in the UK or Canada. This is a law requiring everyone to buy health insurance. It does a lot of stuff Dems believe will make that insurance more affordable, maybe, maybe not. But that's what it is: a government edict telling you that you must buy something.

[abelardx]

that's funny, because the people you likely voted for are doing all they can to stop the ACA, including putting severe limits on the outreach groups tasked with helping those who need help with paperwork and explaining things like the fact that there are subsidies for various levels of income, some of them covering 100% of the insurance.

If you stepped out of your bubble, you wouldn't make it so painfully obvious that you haven't the first clue about the ACA.

I'm not the one in the bubble buddy.

[rong]

America seems like such a selfish country. It must be great if you earn say 200k+ but shite to be less than 80k.

[boost]

I'm not the one in the bubble buddy.

Good job addressing the point I made.

Also, care to explain how every legitimate forecast shows that this will save money.. even more than the original predictions?

What are you so afraid of? It passed congress, was signed into law, then made it through the supreme court. Time to sit back and give it a try. If it's doomed to failure as you seem to think, then stop trying to stop it, let it flop, and the right wins a huge victory without having to lift a finger. Yet here you are, paroting disproven talking points and surely supporting every obstructionist tactic employed by the GOP.

[boost]

And for those of you in Europe who don't understand Obamacare, this is not a taxpayer-funded universal health care system like you have in the UK or Canada. This is a law requiring everyone to buy health insurance. It does a lot of stuff Dems believe will make that insurance more affordable, maybe, maybe not. But that's what it is: a government edict telling you that you must buy something.

No, it's not what they have up and over there. As you seem to imply, that would have been a better system. However, the GOP fought tooth and nail to stop a single payer system from passing. So we compromised. We compromised. Met in the middle. We settled it. Yet...

[Savy]

America seems like such a selfish country. It must be great if you earn say 200k+ but shite to be less than 80k.

People are selfish dicks full stop. There's just a complete lack of empathy towards others and everyone is so obsessed with trying to look that little bit better than they actual are to others.

The fact that they'd rather pay that little bit less tax so they can go on that 5* holiday for a fortnight rather than the 4* is all that's important to them, not the fact that the lack of public funds available can cripple services that allow that person who is house ridden with no family and money to get to go outside once in a blue moon. Who cares, we made sure we had enough money so we could move away to somewhere that isn't visible so we can pretend it doesn't exist.

[abelardx]

America seems like such a selfish country. It must be great if you earn say 200k+ but shite to be less than 80k.

It's not so bad.

[Luco]

People are selfish dicks full stop. There's just a complete lack of empathy towards others and everyone is so obsessed with trying to look that little bit better than they actual are to others.

The fact that they'd rather pay that little bit less tax so they can go on that 5* holiday for a fortnight rather than the 4* is all that's important to them, not the fact that the lack of public funds available can cripple services that allow that person who is house ridden with no family and money to get to go outside once in a blue moon. Who cares, we made sure we had enough money so we could move away to somewhere that isn't visible so we can pretend it doesn't exist.

[abelardx]

People are selfish dicks full stop. There's just a complete lack of empathy towards others and everyone is so obsessed with trying to look that little bit better than they actual are to others.

The fact that they'd rather pay that little bit less tax so they can go on that 5* holiday for a fortnight rather than the 4* is all that's important to them, not the fact that the lack of public funds available can cripple services that allow that person who is house ridden with no family and money to get to go outside once in a blue moon. Who cares, we made sure we had enough money so we could move away to somewhere that isn't visible so we can pretend it doesn't exist.

This is wrong. It's not that Americans don't want to care for the poor. We are the most charitable nation in the history of the world. But we want to do it privately and locally through families, churches, and synagogues, not leaving it in the hands of an uncaring inefficient bureaucracy.

[abelardx]

And we don't like the government telling us what to do. Yes, that is a real concern. It's not the big tit you seem to think it is.

[Pascal]

i honestly don't know what life would be like without the NHS. free health care for people who need it seems to me to be an essential human right. if you get injured, you should be looked after. you definitely shouldn't go bankrupt because you got ill. ah well

[abelardx]

Not to get off topic because I'm having loads of fun. But the game theory mooc starts today. Anybody else taking this?

[rong]

Yeah Pascal, I agree. I don't understand how a civilized country can accept that some people don't have access to basic healthcare. I gladly pay the part of ny taxes that goes towards the nhs in spite of it's imperfections.

Question for you yanks, do kids get free healthcare? Or are there lots of poor kids dying because daddy can't afford insurance?

[Pascal]

and if there are lots of poor dying kids/adults/the mentally ill is that not proof that your private system of healthcare charity isnt working? or is that ok because at least its more efficient.

[sam1FTR]

Freakiest clown picture I ever saw, no kidding..

Haha yeah definitely a weird clown picture...

[abelardx]

Yeah Pascal, I agree. I don't understand how a civilized country can accept that some people don't have access to basic healthcare. I gladly pay the part of ny taxes that goes towards the nhs in spite of it's imperfections.

Question for you yanks, do kids get free healthcare? Or are there lots of poor kids dying because daddy can't afford insurance?

and if there are lots of poor dying kids/adults/the mentally ill is that not proof that your private system of healthcare charity isnt working? or is that ok because at least its more efficient.

I'm pretty sure sick children are ground up and made into McDonald's hamburger meat.

[abelardx]

You're looking at it as a single big issue that can have only one big solution and of course the only actor big enough to 'solve' the problem is the government. So you like putting it in the hands of the government. But that's not how it is at all. It is millions of individual cases with unique characteristics. There is no one size fits all solution except for the lawyers and insurance companies who love the idea of forcing everyone to be their customer. I'm sure that sick kids in America are no worse off than anywhere else but I admit that I am not a sick kid outcome expert.

[MadMojoMonkey]

[America is] the most charitable nation in the history of the world.

That's just silly. Even if it's true, it's no argument. You've implicitly stated that providing healthcare is a charitable act, and that charitable acts are good. You've explicitly stated that America values doing good, charitable things.

Even more striking is your argument that gov't should have no place in healthcare, when Medicare is one of the most beloved programs in US history. It was brought up in the debate surrounding the ACA and it was anathema to both sides to suggest repealing Medicare.

So there's clearly a place for the provision of healthcare in American Gov't, which transcends party lines. It's just a matter of how much gov't involvement is the most efficient amount.

[rong]

It also depends on your measure of efficiency.

[d0zer]

I'm sure that sick kids in America are no worse off than anywhere else but I admit that I am not a sick kid outcome expert.

Infant mortality and life expectancy are worse in america than virtually all other developed nations. You have people going bankrupt regularly for unexpected medical bills. I can't imagine how anyone can defend the status quo, it is obviously broken.

[Chelle]

America seems like such a selfish country. It must be great if you earn say 200k+ but shite to be less than 80k.

Greed is a strong thing in 'murica.

So is McDonalds, and a fuckton of terrible shit that needs to be completely destroyed. So many people have sold their humanity to further themselves, and don't seem to look past OHGAWDMUNEY, they don't see how it will impact fucktons of people.

Healthcare should be free. People that need help should be able to get it. People need to chill the fuck out with so much god damn fucking negative bullshit, and be responsible adults that get shit done.

Knowing there are people out there that are considered an adult, and they're able mind and able bodied, and they can't fucking cook themselves a meal, or don't know how to do laundry, and act like a god damn child - they should be forced to go to a fucking class that lasts over a 6 week period of time, that's paid for by their parents [just that persons' parents], to be taught how to do some simple ass fucking shit you should know how to do anyway. It would make parents start being parents and teaching their kids how to do shit that you fucking need to know how to do, and stop relying on TV to raise their kids. ...

I just ranted. sorry about that.

tl;dr - rawr rawr titties rawr adults not being adults rawr PMS rawr

[NightGizmo]

The ultimate problem is that healthcare is not something that can be handled by market forces or private competitive insurance companies. In order to compete, a company would have to start squeezing out the unhealthy (unprofitable) patients (which is exactly what we have seen in the past).

So if the free market cannot solve this problem in an equitable fashion -- who is left?

This isn't a perfect analogy, but... do you think it would be better to put the military in the hands of private companies instead of the government? Do you think that market competition is a better alternative than letting the government "solve" that problem?

[rong]

What's the income tax percentages over there? And do you have an equivalent of vat here in the UK? I'd look this up myself but I'm busy.

[abelardx]

I really like my new avatar. This could be a keeper.

[Pascal]

You're looking at it as a single big issue that can have only one big solution and of course the only actor big enough to 'solve' the problem is the government. So you like putting it in the hands of the government. But that's not how it is at all. It is millions of individual cases with unique characteristics. There is no one size fits all solution except for the lawyers and insurance companies who love the idea of forcing everyone to be their customer. I'm sure that sick kids in America are no worse off than anywhere else but I admit that I am not a sick kid outcome expert.

ive never dealt with a lawyer or an insurance company. i like the way your logic is "lawyers shouldnt be allowed to exploit the system so i would rather people die than let the system be exploited". fun

[abelardx]

The ultimate problem is that healthcare is not something that can be handled by market forces or private competitive insurance companies. In order to compete, a company would have to start squeezing out the unhealthy (unprofitable) patients (which is exactly what we have seen in the past).

So if the free market cannot solve this problem in an equitable fashion -- who is left?

This isn't a perfect analogy, but... do you think it would be better to put the military in the hands of private companies instead of the government? Do you think that market competition is a better alternative than letting the government "solve" that problem?

This is the one argument I find reasonably persuasive. Government is best at some things. Is healthcare one of them? Possibly.

As we learned in game theory today, the one nash equilibrium solution to the prisoner's dilemma is the only non-pareto optimal solution. In other words, consistent rational self-interest will sometimes produce the worst overall outcome, kinduva dilemma of the commons thing.

[abelardx]

ive never dealt with a lawyer or an insurance company. i like the way your logic is "lawyers shouldnt be allowed to exploit the system so i would rather people die than let the system be exploited". fun

Nobody's talking about letting people die. That's ridiculous.

[abelardx]

Do you libtards recognize my avatar?

[abelardx]

Love you!

[bikes]

So is McDonalds, and a fuckton of terrible shit that needs to be completely destroyed.

Don't you fucking take my Mcnuggets from me. Don't you goddamm dare.

[bikes]

[MadMojoMonkey]

Do you libtards recognize my avatar?

To consider someone liberal or conservative based on their stance on a single issue is a misuse of the terms.

I have liberal views on some issues, and conservative views on other issues. Everyone does. There is no direct link to a liberal or conservative view on one issue to another, unrelated issue.

I'm conservative when it comes to crime and punishment, and military spending. I'm liberal when it comes to healthcare and education. I'm libertarian when it comes to drug and helmet/seatbelt laws.

So there's a whole political spectrum present in a human, and any attempt to reduce one to a single conglomerate viewpoint is a mischaracterization.

P.S. I don't recognize your pic.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah Pascal, I agree. I don't understand how a civilized country can accept that some people don't have access to basic healthcare. I gladly pay the part of ny taxes that goes towards the nhs in spite of it's imperfections.

Question for you yanks, do kids get free healthcare? Or are there lots of poor kids dying because daddy can't afford insurance?

and if there are lots of poor dying kids/adults/the mentally ill is that not proof that your private system of healthcare charity isnt working? or is that ok because at least its more efficient.

In America, there is a deep belief in the free market which sometimes pops up as a belief against government. Both marks are easy to understand - there's compelling reason to believe in the value and power of the free market to allocate resources and yield incredible gains in goods and services well above and beyond what anyone could reasonably expect as a need - and there's a compelling narrative which describes the interface between the free market and gov't as a zero sum trade off between antithetical actors. My personal belief is that the gov't is necessary to smooth off the rough edges of the free market and I find this to be a rather popular position held by many. Unfortunately, a freer free market seems to be seductive a thought to just about anyone in America, and I think it has to do with its history or popularly understood history.

Europe has a rich history of powerful monarchies which have slowly evolved to empower the people. When the central power has always stood and is now bowing to your demands, its easy to see how certain 'basic' or 'administrative' or 'public' services should run by way of that central authority. America enjoys a different mythos - we were the biggest economy in the world pretty quickly. We didn't need a huge central power that had enjoyed centuries of boat-loads of new world preciousies to hold it down, we built it our damnselves.

Economics is important to everyone and at the same time stupendously difficult to understand in the manner people tend to understand things. When it seems the time tested method of being the best damn country (economy) on Earth is having less than little gov't and a freer than free market, it's easy to believe gov't should get out. As Ironman said, "That's how daddy did it. That's how America does it. And it's worked out well so far."

[Chelle]

Don't you fucking take my Mcnuggets from me. Don't you goddamm dare.

siiiiiiiiiiighhhhhh! fiiiiinnnne i won't. but lately they did some research on 'em, and they found these weird hair things in the meat, but it's not hair. mcdonalds scares me. ;/

[rong]

SO I've been doing some research into US debt and considering their ability to ever repay it as opposed to it simply being a giant bubble that works until it bursts. It was easy enough to find debt and GDP figures, especially as I just want a broad idea of the figures. I went to look for balance of payments figures and ended up looking at this, which doesn't bode well.

[bikes]

and the world spins madly on