Randomness thread, part two.

[Poopadoop]

Your logic is that if I disapprove of Brexit I should find a job in another country, presumably Canada since that's where I sprouted? Is that correct?

That seems very simple-minded to me.

First, moving to another country is expensive. I assume you've never tried it, but it's hardly trivial. Economically, it might be better to sit tight and see what happens before making any such decision.

Second, there are people here in the UK I'm attached to personally. This adds another level of complexity beyond simply 'go back you ungrateful swine.'

Third, I like it here. That's why I live here. I don't casually assert the various benefits of living here for my sensibilities because they're almost as banal as your arguments for why I shoulnd't live here. But there is more to a choice of residence than whether or not you are aligned with a vote that took place three years ago.

Fourth, or 3a if you like, I have a very good job here.

Fifth, I'm frankly annoyed that someone who doesn't pay taxes, and whose benefits I otherwise uncomplainingly contribute to, feels superior to me to the point they can suggest gtfo out of 'their' country.

Sixth and finally, I'm not impressed by arguments of possession when it comes to a particular piece of land that has declared itself a nation state without my consent or input, however long ago that occurred. This is perhaps out of your realm of experience, but I have a very good understanding of historical events that led to certain claims of possession without moral backing. An example of this would be the N. American conquest of the plains Indians. My own sensibility of this leads me to question any dogmatic views of sovereignty.

[OngBonga]

Your logic is that if I disapprove of Brexit I should find a job in another country, presumably Canada since that's where I sprouted? Is that correct?

Not "disapprove", more "object to, to the point we should vote again". And not that you "should" find another job, just that it would be a logical avenue to explore, since you know so much about how fucked the economy will suffer. So much so that you know how much worse off you'll be.

And Canada because, I assume, you hold a passport and work permit. By all means explore other options. Europe might take you in.

Economically, it might be better to sit tight and see what happens before making any such decision.

So you're hoping you're wrong to oppose Brexit?

Second, there are people here in the UK I'm attached to personally. This adds another level of complexity beyond simply 'go back you ungrateful swine.'

You're doing your best to make out my position is for you to kindly fuck off. It's not at all. I'm questioning why you yourself haven't considered doing so. The answer is because you don't believe we're actually that fucked.

because they're almost as banal as your arguments for why I shoulnd't live here

Again, you're making assumptions. I haven't told you why you "shouldn't" live here. I've told you that from my pov, you're welcome. I've explained to you that your position is somewhat inconsistent... on the one hand you think we made a terrible decision, and on the other you're willing to ride it out.

But there is more to a choice of residence than whether or not you are aligned with a vote that took place three years ago.

I don't disagree. If I were to emigrate, top of my list of criteria would be "democracy". And one crucial aspect of wanting to live in a democratic country is respecting democratic decisions, regardless of whether I like the result or not.

Fourth, or 3a if you like, I have a very good job here.

Indeed, and, I assume, it's a job that doesn't evaporate as soon as we leave the EU.

Fifth, I'm frankly annoyed that someone who doesn't pay taxes, and whose benefits I otherwise uncomplainingly contribute to, feels superior to me to the point they can suggest gtfo out of 'their' country.

I can't help it if you feel victimised when I make an observation. I haven't told you to leave the country. You, being a lib, have taken my comments that way, because waa waa screeching banshee. I have only reminded you that leaving this country is an option. The fact you don't consider it to be one speaks volumes about how fucked you actually think we are.

So you're shitting on democracy for pure personal greed. You don't want to be down £1k a year, which is a figure as pulled out of someone's ass as Boris' bus.

My own sensibility of this leads me to question any dogmatic views of sovereignty.

So you oppose the basic concept of the nation state? Fair enough. I don't see how you then move towards a position of support for the concept of a superstate. Just gravitate towards anarchy instead.

[Poopadoop]

Not "disapprove", more "object to, to the point we should vote again". And not that you "should" find another job, just that it would be a logical avenue to explore, since you know so much about how fucked the economy will suffer. So much so that you know how much worse off you'll be.

I don't know these things. Economics is complicated. But I know that "free trade is good, cheap stuff to buy, can sell our stuff to other countries" is a long-held belief of experts which seems to have empircal evidence to support it.

And Canada because, I assume, you hold a passport and work permit. By all means explore other options. Europe might take you in.

Maybe I have, or maybe I will.

I just feel your arguments aren't so much about what's in my best personal interest as they are 'fuck off immigrant'. Could be wrong though or maybe you're just loltrolling.

So you're hoping you're wrong to oppose Brexit?

I'm open to the idea that I may be wrong. I'm very evidence-driven, and the evidence can't be had until the event occurs. This is analagous to climate change to me, inasmuch as the proof may not be evident until it's too late. And I'm hedging.

You're doing your best to make out my position is for you to kindly fuck off. It's not at all. I'm questioning why you yourself haven't considered doing so. The answer is because you don't believe we're actually that fucked.

I would hope that I've already dispelled such a simplistic notion in my previous post. Life is about more than money, and more about things besides 'arrgghgghg Brexit."

Again, you're making assumptions. I haven't told you why you "shouldn't" live here. I've told you that from my pov, you're welcome. I've explained to you that your position is somewhat inconsistent... on the one hand you think we made a terrible decision, and on the other you're willing to ride it out.

I may well be misunderstanding you, but my sense is that your argument is a knee-jerk jingoistic reaction along the lines of 'love it or leave it.' Pointing out my immigration status weighs me towards that conclusion, because that is a common argument made by people against immigrants who don't toe the line.

I don't disagree. If I were to emigrate, top of my list of criteria would be "democracy". And one crucial aspect of wanting to live in a democratic country is respecting democratic decisions, regardless of whether I like the result or not.

Hmm, again we have a different view of how democray should manifest itself.

Indeed, and, I assume, it's a job that doesn't evaporate as soon as we leave the EU.

It is a bit of a niche job though, as most academic jobs are. It's not like I can walk into McGill U and say 'hey hire me I know lots of stuff that no-one else in your department cares about even though it's useful to the field as a whole'.

It's complicated, but it is not trivial to find a good job even with a Phd, believe it or not.

I can't help it if you feel victimised when I make an observation.

I did not, and have never, suggested that paying taxes to support your sloth makes me a victim. On the contrary, I've made it clear on several occasions that I'm actually quite happy to do so, given I could as easily be in your shoes but for the grace of the dice.

I haven't told you to leave the country. You, being a lib, have taken my comments that way, because waa waa screeching banshee.

You can accuse me of misunderstanding you. But surely you can see that I am hardly a wailing harpy or whatever. Come on now you bufferton.

I have only reminded you that leaving this country is an option. The fact you don't consider it to be one speaks volumes about how fucked you actually think we are.

No I've considered it, and I've weighed it carefully. I don't have enough information to make a decision yet, that's all. I also don't have a job offer in Canada, which is a bigger factor than Brexit since I'll need to eat and dress myself wherever I choose to live.

So you're shitting on democracy for pure personal greed. You don't want to be down £1k a year, which is a figure as pulled out of someone's ass as Boris' bus.

The figure aligns with my understanding of free trade and tariffs' effects on an economy, but I'm certainly not compelled by it as it is speculative. However, one thing I'm sure of is that it is not just a question of growing my own tomatoes or eating my nan's tomatoes from her garden or what have you. And yes, I'm selfishly more concerned with my own life than that of a fisherman I've never met who happens to live in the same geopolitical domain as I through no choice of my own. Do you really think such a pov is 'selfish' to the point of deserving derision?

So you oppose the basic concept of the nation state? Fair enough.

What thinking person doesn't oppose the idea of artificial boundaries and ancient conquest determing a national 'identity'?

I don't see how you then move towards a position of support for the concept of a superstate.

Ugh, old arguments again. But if you want to hear it another time, I don't believe the EU is a 'superstate' in any way that costs us our independence or freedom of action in external affairs (or internal affairs outside of being part of an economic entity, i.e., bendy bananas).

Just gravitate towards anarchy instead.

A 'state' of some sort is needed imo for organizational purposes. What I object to is the notion of 'patriotism' inasmuch as it co-opts tribialistic notions of genetic 'sameness'. IOW, it makes sense for peoples of the Sioux tribe of which I have part ownership to be loyal to one another, but not for them to be loyal to Iroquois who live 3000 miles away but sitll in the same 'country'.

So, if I am going to fight for my 'nation', I would arguably prefer to fight for those genetically most similar to me rather than those who happen to lie within the same geographical boundary. Better yet, I prefer to fight only in self-defense. That all said, I'm happy to play along and fight for my funny-coloured neighbors who hold similar values to me (which is in my view, virtually everyone) in the case of self-defense. But I feel that's a different topic than Brexit.

[OngBonga]

I just feel your arguments aren't so much about what's in my best personal interest as they are 'fuck off immigrant'.

You should reflect on why you react in this way. I have no idea what's in your personal interest. I identified what I felt was an inconsistency in your position, and pointed it out. You reacted by feeling victimised. This is what I mean by screeching banshee. Whenever you are faced with words you don't like, you cry victim and attempt to make the other person out to be some kind of bigot. Classic lib.

I'm very evidence-driven, and the evidence can't be had until the event occurs.

So you accept that people are in no position to "change their mind" until we've actually left? Because there's no evidence yet, as you acknowledge here, that we have made a mistake. It's all speculation until we leave and observe the effects.

I may well be misunderstanding you, but my sense is that your argument is a knee-jerk jingoistic reaction along the lines of 'love it or leave it.' Pointing out my immigration status weighs me towards that conclusion, because that is a common argument made by people against immigrants who don't toe the line.

I've been quite clear that you are the kind of immigrant I approve of, not just in this discussion but in the past when discussing Islam. There's no jingoism here. Believing a nation state should control its own affairs is not something I consider to be excessive patriotism. And at the risk of getting sidetracked in a semantics argument, jingoism is a word more usually associated with a war-like attitude. I don't refer to our colonial history with any sense of pride. And I despise our foreign policy. I'm jingoistic when I argue with Germans, but that's trolling rather than pride.

Hmm, again we have a different view of how democray should manifest itself.

Indeed. You favour perpetual uncertainty and "your vote doesn't matter because you get to vote again" democracy.

I did not, and have never, suggested that paying taxes to support your sloth makes me a victim

Are you incapable of understanding context? You're playing victim by claiming that I'm telling you to fuck off when I merely point out it's an option for your consideration. You feel victimised because you think I'm picking on your immigrant status when I'm actually suggesting that it puts you in a more favourable position than remainers who only have a UK passport, and have no choice but to ride it out.

You can accuse me of misunderstanding you. But surely you can see that I am hardly a wailing harpy or whatever. Come on now you bufferton.

You are showing symptoms. I use that term to refer to people who cry when they feel victimised, or when they lose a vote. I first started using it to describe blue haired freaks who scream and show both middle fingers in response to Trump winning an election, but it applies also to people who think any mention of their immigrant status is an act of bigotry and reason to accuse people of jingoism.

...who happens to live in the same geopolitical domain as I through no choice of my own.

Did you keep a straight face as you typed this out? You have a choice. The fisherman doesn't.

Do you really think such a pov is 'selfish' to the point of deserving derision?

Yes. I wouldn't if you voted to remain, and then said "bollocks, we lost, oh well at least I live in a democracy".

What thinking person doesn't oppose the idea of artificial boundaries and ancient conquest determing a national 'identity'?

Someone who thinks that if borders didn't exist, lots of people (ie hundreds of millions, maybe billions) would want to leave their monsoon drenched shithole and war torn deserts and move to more tolerable places.

But let's say I opposed borders... what does being in the EU solve? I just creates a bigger border, a larger artificial boundary, a sense of continental identity instead of national. A national identity is not something that is going to disappear, no matter how much you despise it. Scotland may want to leave the UK because, guess what? They have their own national identity.The Catalans have their own national identity. Why do you want to dilute that? Is culture a dirty word to you?

I don't believe the EU is a 'superstate'...

And this is why, in my opinion, you're unqualified to debate this topic with any shred of authority. You are willfully ignorant.

What I object to is the notion of 'patriotism' inasmuch as it co-opts tribialistic notions of genetic 'sameness'.

I don't give a fuck about "genetic sameness". I care about cultural sameness. That's why I don't have a problem with Canadian immigrants, but don't particularly approve of Islamic immigration.

[spoonitnow]

How did you arrive at that as opposed to, say, fisting in the cunt? Just interested to hear your thought process since you've obviously thoguht about it very deeply.

The humor of "buttfucked in the ass" is in its redundancy and the low frequency of the term "buttfucking" in modern times.

[spoonitnow]

Also, what the fuck happened to no politics in the randomness thread?

[OngBonga]

Also, what the fuck happened to no politics in the randomness thread?

Everyone who cared about such rules left, leaving those of us who don't give a fuck to run amok.

[spoonitnow]

Everyone who cared about such rules left, leaving those of us who don't give a fuck to run amok.

Fair.

So what else are you up to these days?

[OngBonga]

Apart from talking shit on the internet, absorbing poop's tax to fund my weed smoking habit, voting to leave communist superstates, and working one day a week at a charity shop, not a fat lot. My life is pretty boring since I moved out of a shitty town and into the countryside. I'm fine with that, I hate town life. The highlight of my day is usually watering the plants in the greenhouse. I have chilli, chives, parsley, mint, cucumber, strawberry, garlic and borage (no idea what that is yet). Might have chickens soon, too.

[OngBonga]

I still play chess. I've been playing variants, like infinite chess and bulldog chess. Both use new pieces, infinite is played on, yep you guessed it, an infinite sized board. I'm actually pretty good at infinite chess, not been beaten yet.

[spoonitnow]

Check this out and see what you think: http://www.kongregate.com/games/TheG...evolved-online

I've been considering getting back into tournament chess. I haven't played in any serious capacity for something like 14-15 years.

[spoonitnow]

Man, I've got a friend who is really going through some shit. Her fiance and father of her child just left her ass for his ex-girlfriend with like no warning whatsoever.

[Poopadoop]

Just got back from a conference in Hanover, Germany. Ong would have hated it because there were quite a few Syrian (i.e., muslim) refugees in Hanover. Obviously they're trying to colonise Germany like they're colonising the UK by having wars in their homeland and using it as a pretext to run for their lives to Europe.

On a more interesting note one of the speakers there was the former sport psychologist for the Florida State football team when they won the National championship. The guy said he'd never been treated like such a star in his life. (College football is insanely popular in the US). He'd get free clothes all the time, discounts on cars and pretty much everything else he bought, everyone recognized him wherever he went on campus, etc.. If that's the sport psychologist imagine how the athletes get treated...

[OngBonga]

Germany -

Fraction of sexual offense cases with at least one immigrant suspect

[OngBonga]

Obviously they're trying to colonise Germany like they're colonising the UK by having wars in their homeland and using it as a pretext to run for their lives to Europe.

Obviously this isn't what any rational person thinks is happening.

[Poopadoop]

Germany -

Fraction of sexual offense cases with at least one immigrant suspect

An increasing % of Germany's population has been made up of immigrants over the past several years, in large part because they took a substantial number of refugees in over the past few years.

Germany is now about 1/8 (12.5%) immigrants. So apparently the migrants as a whole are about as law abiding as native Germans, maybe a bit more so.

[Poopadoop]

Obviously this isn't what any rational person thinks is happening.

What? I thought the UK was going to be under Sharia Law any day now.

[OngBonga]

What? I thought the UK was going to be under Sharia Law any day now.

That's not what you said. You suggested they were having wars as a pretext for invasion. They're not. Syria might be at war, but Pakistan isn't. The vast majority of Islamic immigrants in the UK and Germany are economic migrants.

And it'll take time before the Islamic population is high enough to influence law in the countries they reside in. That said, Sharia already exists in the UK. It's just I'm not subject to it.

[OngBonga]

Do you recognise that Islamic people are having more children than non-Islamic? And do you recognise that Islam is an oppressive religion?

I'm curious what you think the future looks like.

[Poopadoop]

How long do you think before fundamentalist Muslims make up a majority of the UK?

[OngBonga]

How long do you think before fundamentalist Muslims make up a majority of the UK?

I obviously can't answer this. For a start, neither of us know how many Muslims identify as "fundamentalist". Let's remove "fundamentalist" and just talk about Muslims. How long before they are a majority in the UK? I don't know, hopefully not in my lifetime. But if current trends continue, then it will happen. The only question then is... how many of them are "fundamentalist"? And is "fundamentalism" the problem? How many of them oppose homosexuality and oppress women? How many of them are sending their children to Islamic schools? How many of them tell their daughters who they can and can't marry? I don't think we'll agree on what it means to be "fundamentalist".

[oskar]

What's the source for this, and why are we looking at suspects rather than convictions?

[oskar]

Obviously they're trying to colonise Germany like they're colonising the UK by having wars in their homeland and using it as a pretext to run for their lives to Europe.

Don't you hate it when brown people use a decade long illegal war started by a US/UK coalition against their neighbouring nation, which after destabilizing the region and causing hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, radicalizes youths into joining religious fanatics who wage stupid wars against the insidious to-be refugee's home country, forcing them to flee or face terror or death... I'm sick of it! Those skeevy fucks!

[OngBonga]

What's the source for this, and why are we looking at suspects rather than convictions?

Source - internet. More specifically - google.

Here's something from wikipedia...

Incidence of rape in Germany have remained relatively stable, rising from 7.57 in 1995, to 9 per 100,000 people in 2009.

Interesting that a 19% rise in 14 years is "relatively stable".

Ethnologist and head of the Research Centre of Global Islam Susanne Schröter at the Goethe University Frankfurt, said that these were no longer isolated incidents, speaking of a culture clash and suggesting that Germany needed to develop a new approach for dealing with aggressive men shaped by patriarchal cultures.[25] According to Schröter, the norms of Islam legitimise violence and sexual assault against women and therefore men from Islamic countries view women in a completely different way

"head of Research Centre of Global Islam".
So... not a dribbling Nazi.

Take note of that last sentence. I mean, you can pretend that Islamic men treat women (both Islamic and non-Islamic) with respect if it makes you sleep easier. But it's the opposite of reality, as made clear by a woman whose job it is to study the social behaviour of Muslims. An Islamic man who considers his wife to be equal is rare. An Islamic man who considers women in miniskirts to be equal is a great deal rarer.

[Poopadoop]

A founding 'mother' of neuroscience turned 101 today.

The mentor of one of my mentors.

[Poopadoop]

Incidence of rape in Germany have remained relatively stable, rising from 7.57 in 1995, to 9 per 100,000 people in 2009.

Interesting that a 19% rise in 14 years is "relatively stable".

That sounds alarming, but it really isn't.

First, in principle you shouldn't describe a change in % in relative terms like that. The increase was ~0.0015% more people getting raped over that time span.

Second, an increase in a tiny number is still a tiny number. ~1/10,000 people getting raped per year, while tragic for the victims, is hardly an epidemic, or even close to an epidemic.

Third, there is no way to know how much if any of that 0.0015% increase can be attributed to muslim immigrants. A lot of factors go into how many cases of rape get reported; economic, social, political, etc.. There is no objective measurement of 'number of rapes'.

Fourth, assuming you control for everything else and find that a) there are more rapes than previously; and b) there are also more muslims than previously; such a correlation does not prove causaton.

Finally, since immigrants (especially refugees) tend to be young and mobile, any increase in immigration will cause a change in demographics such that, in this instance, generally older Germans are being joined by generally younger immigrants. This means that overall the population gets 'younger', although a disproportionate amount of those younger people are immigrants. And since young people are more likely to commit crimes the crime rate goes up.

The solution for Germany to halt this non-epidemic of rapes that you're so concerned about is clearly to stop allowing immigration at all. But then because of low birth rates among the native-born this means the population would eventually be mostly retired people and a few young people supporting them and the economy would collapse. But I guess economic misery is a small price to pay for averting a non-epidemic.

Edit: I should add that 9 rapes/100k is almost certainly an underestimate (as was 7.5/100k) of the true number of rapes that occur in any population. Part or all or more than the increase may be due to people's willingness to press a complaint being greater than it was previously.

Edit2: fixed my math.

[Poopadoop]

"head of Research Centre of Global Islam".

Hmm, wonder why she in particular was quoted here. Are there quotes from anyone who disagrees with her?

I mean, you can pretend that Islamic men treat women (both Islamic and non-Islamic) with respect if it makes you sleep easier.

It's not a question of what helps me sleep. It's a question of what the reality is. You're painting muslim men with a very broad brush here, as if all of them hold the same attitudes. This is like saying all Christians are against homosexuality because there are some who are.

[OngBonga]

It's not a question of what helps me sleep. It's a question of what the reality is. You're painting muslim men with a very broad brush here, as if all of them hold the same attitudes. This is like saying all Christians are against homosexuality because there are some who are.

I don't think all Muslim men hold the same attitudes. But a large enough percentage for it to be a cultural concern, yes.

Do you think that the percentage of Christians who oppose homosexuality is similar to the percentage of Muslims?

There are still quite a lot of batshit Christians, especially in USA, but Christianity has also evolved a great deal more than Islam has. To illustrate that point, there are said to be five openly gay Imams in the world (source - wikipedia), none of whom live in an Islamic country. There are suggestions (again, wikipedia) that as much as 15% of the Catholic Clergy are homosexual, but even if it's 1% it's still a massive amount more than Islam. So, it's unreasonable to compare Christianity to Islam when it comes to attitudes towards homosexuality.

[Poopadoop]

I don't think all Muslim men hold the same attitudes. But a large enough percentage for it to be a cultural concern, yes.

And you're basing this on what?

Do you think that the percentage of Christians who oppose homosexuality is similar to the percentage of Muslims?

Depends on which group of Christians you're talking about and which group of Muslims.

There are still quite a lot of batshit Christians, especially in USA, but Christianity has also evolved a great deal more than Islam has. To illustrate that point, there are said to be five openly gay Imams in the world (source - wikipedia), none of whom live in an Islamic country. There are suggestions (again, wikipedia) that as much as 15% of the Catholic Clergy are homosexual, but even if it's 1% it's still a massive amount more than Islam. So, it's unreasonable to compare Christianity to Islam when it comes to attitudes towards homosexuality.

It's almost as if when people grow up in a largely secular culture, they tend to adopt liberal views rather than the batshit religious ones their parents might have had.

[OngBonga]

haha

It's almost as if when people grow up in a largely secular culture, they tend to adopt liberal views rather than the batshit religious ones their parents might have had.

It's almost as if we agree on something here. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Oh wait, it's that word "secular", which is precisely what I want. I'd quite like all religions to kindly fuck off into history.

Oh, and "batshit religions", which just so happens to be what I oppose.

Why do you think I'm being mean by rejecting Islam? You want a liberal society without bathsit religion? Let's import Islam!

[Poopadoop]

Why do you think I'm being mean by rejecting Islam? You want a liberal society without bathsit religion? Let's import Islam!

I don't think you're being mean, I think you're being myopic. I think you're buying into the fear-mongering that anti-immigration people promote when they say things that you like to repeat, like Sharia Law is coming our way if we don't stop muslim immigration.

We've had muslim immigration for a long time in Western countries. None of the Western countries have become batshit religious because of it. What happens is most of these immigrants accept the values of the country they move to; even if they doubt those values are correct, they still understand what the law is and abide by it. That's why you don't hear about a muslim teacher being fired for shouting at gay kids, or a muslim surgeon getting sacked because he stopped in the middle of an operation to pray for the death of infidels.

In some of the countries where they have strict Sharia Law, like Iran, the majority of people don't even want it. In a lot of muslim countries like Turkey they don't have Sharia Law. So what makes you think the people who do want it are going to move to this heathen land when they either just stay where they are and be happy, or move to a place that does have it?

You really need quite an imagination to believe there's some master plan by muslims to take over the West this way.

[Poopadoop]

What happens is most of these immigrants accept the values of the country they move to; even if they doubt those values are correct, they still understand what the law is and abide by it.

What would you do if you woke up one day to find this was all a dream and you were living in Saudi Arabia? Are you going to say 'fuck this place, I'm going to drink and do drugs and chase skirt and blah blah blah on the internet about how much I hate Islam?', then sit and wait for the cops to show up and haul you off for a beheading? 'Cause I'm guessing you would have more sense than that. You'd keep your head down and you'd keep your radical views to yourself.

[Poopadoop]

It's funny how you attribute almost all immigration to either economic motives or a wish to spread a religion to people who don't want it.

Africans or Syrians fleeing war, death and destruction? "Economic migrants."

Central Americans fleeing muderous gangs? "Economic migrants."

People leaving poor, oppressive muslim countries to live in a prosperous, liberal country? "Religious fanatics."

You might want to turn down the volume on the Nigel Farage channel there, man.

[OngBonga]

You really need quite an imagination to believe there's some master plan by muslims to take over the West this way.

What if it's not a Muslim plan? What if they're just pawns?

[OngBonga]

It's funny how you attribute almost all immigration to either economic motives or a wish to spread a religion to people who don't want it.

It pretty much all is economic migration, certainly here in the UK. People want a better life.And that includes the religious nutjobs. They're not here specifically to spread their ideology, it's just a by-product. They come here because our country is not a shithole, like their home country.

Africans or Syrians fleeing war, death and destruction? "Economic migrants."

The number of people fleeing war is miniscule compared to the number of people seeking better economic opportunities. There's only four nations involved in a "major war" right now, and that includes the "drug war" of Mexico.

Central Americans fleeing muderous gangs? "Economic migrants."

Of course they're economic migrants. Why do they flee North? Because... economics. Central American culture is much closer to South America than North. Yet, they go North. Why do you think that is?

People leaving poor, oppressive muslim countries to live in a prosperous, liberal country? "Religious fanatics."

Nope, they're economic migrants too.

[Poopadoop]

What if it's not a Muslim plan? What if they're just pawns?

Explain your hypothesis. Are the batshit Imams telling devout muslims to leave their holy lands and move to the decadent West?

[Poopadoop]

Of course they're economic migrants. Why do they flee North? Because... economics. Central American culture is much closer to South America than North. Yet, they go North. Why do you think that is?

Geography. There's no road south through Panama to S. America. Fact. So, if you're in the triangle you have two options: swim south, or walk north. I guess you can try to machete your way through 1000 miles of jungle to Colombia but that's a tall order.

So you walk north to Mexico which can't afford to help you. So you keep walking north hoping America will take you in. Then Border Patrol takes your kids away and put you and them in separate concentration camps.

Geography is the same reason why Venezuelans don't come in the caravans to the US. Their caravan road goes to Colombia, and their exodus makes the one coming to the US southern border look like a Sunday picnic by comparison.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/op...in-precedentes

Meanwhile Turkey has taken in over 3.5 MILLION Syrians in the last few years.

And yet the US, the richest country in the world, can't (or won't) get their shit together under Trump to help these relatively small numbers of people coming from C. America.

[spoonitnow]

And yet the US, the richest country in the world, can't (or won't) get their shit together under Trump to help these relatively small numbers of people coming from C. America.

Not our problem

[oskar]

Have you gotten back into competitive chess yet? I think it could do a lot for correcting your self-image.

[Poopadoop]

Not our problem

The fact that neither Captain Retard nor any of the "best people" he keeps hiring are willing to manage the situation humanely when it's perfectly possible to do so suggests your current leadership doesn't care about people. You feel good about that? Ok then.

[spoonitnow]

The fact that neither Captain Retard nor any of the "best people" he keeps hiring are willing to manage the situation humanely when it's perfectly possible to do so suggests your current leadership doesn't care about people. You feel good about that? Ok then.

There's a really easy solution: Stop entering the country illegally.

[Poopadoop]

There's a really easy solution: Stop entering the country illegally.

But they are entering the country illegally. So what's your preferred next move?

[oskar]

... go online and seek the attention your dad never gave you?
Solid first step imo

[spoonitnow]

But they are entering the country illegally. So what's your preferred next move?

To finish the wall and keep arresting [and deporting] criminals.

[oskar]

Spoon, I got an actual math problem for you. No jokes this time: If you build zero wall in three years, how many years will it take until an obese demagogue will fill the hole your father left?

[OngBonga]

Fun fact - some African migrants fly to Ecuador and then cross the Darién Gap on their way to USA.

[spoonitnow]

Fun fact - some African migrants fly to Ecuador and then cross the Darién Gap on their way to USA.

Those poor refugees

[OngBonga]

Dear Japan,

I am an unemployed Englishman who wishes to move to Japan. I am willing to work one day a week as a volunteer for a charity, but other than that I would like to be supported by the Japanese taxpayer. I heard someone got shot in my home city of Birmingham, so I'm fleeing violence. Plus, we're technically in a state of conflict with the Irish. Please note that this conflict is listed on the Wikipedia page of "ongoing armed conflicts". I am therefore a refugee, not an economic migrant. I have chosen Japan due to the geographical and cultural closeness. I can speak no Japanese, and I don't really like fish, except for cod and tuna. I also oppose whale hunting.

I look forward to a nice property on the outskirts of Tokyo where everyone speaks English.
Regards,
OngBonga.

[Poopadoop]

Dear Mr. Ongbonga,

You are honourably taking the piss. Unlike most applicants, you don't work and aren't willing to work to support yourself and your family. You have nothing in common with people who face real war, famine, and/or disease where they live, and who have a legitimate claim to asylum. We don't care whether or not you like whale hunting. You are also, we have heard, xenophobic. As such, we are going to put you in a cage with no toothbrush, toilet paper, shower facilities or soap. We doubt you will smell any different than you do now. You will also not be allowed to contact your loved ones, talk shit on the internet without supporting your arguments with evidence, or watch our excellent Japanese porn. Our government officials will periodically come by and say 'tut tut' as they watch you suffer.

We do hope you enjoy your stay.

[OngBonga]

Unlike most applicants...

Ha!

Oh wait, this is Japan, not the UK. Might be true.

You have nothing in common with people who face real war

There is gun crime in England and we are at war. Well, in a state of conflict, but it's there on the Wikipedia page. I'm afraid that I might get shot, or blown up in a pub.

You are also, we have heard, xenophobic.

Only towards the Germans. That doesn't count. You guys all hate the Chinese, that's xenophobia.

As such, we are going to put you in a cage with no toothbrush, toilet paper, shower facilities or soap.

Damn, this sounds worse than fleeing war. I've changed my mind, I'll stay in England.

We doubt you will smell any different than you do now.

This is a hate crime, it's discriminatory against soap dodgers.

You will also not be allowed to contact your loved ones, talk shit on the internet without supporting your arguments with evidence, or watch our excellent Japanese porn.

Fuck. It's a good job we're not really at war then, isn't it? Imagine if I were fleeing war, this wouldn't put me off. It would still be better than dying.

We do hope you enjoy your stay.

You guys need to do things like the UK instead of USA. I want free money and somewhere to live. And a wife who doesn't mind covering her face in public.

[OngBonga]

Fuck it, if you won't let me in, I'll turn up at your border clutching a child and guilt you into letting me in.

Fuck you Japan, I hate you.

I'm still coming though.

[oskar]

Spoon, I got an actual math problem for you. No jokes this time: If you build zero wall in three years, how many years will it take until an obese demagogue will fill the hole your father left?

I realize I didn't specify which hole. If that made the problem impossible to solve: I was speaking figuratively. But you can also plug your literal holes sequentially into that equation and tell the class what you can come up with for extra credit.

[spoonitnow]

[Poopadoop]

Fuck it, if you won't let me in, I'll turn up at your border clutching a child and guilt you into letting me in.

Fuck you Japan, I hate you.

I'm still coming though.

In that case, we will let you watch the Japanese porn while you squat in your own filth in our camp. But, we're going to pixellate not just the genitals, but everything except the men's assholes. That way you can think about how you've dishonoured yourself.

[oskar]

Of course they're economic migrants. Why do they flee North? Because... economics. Central American culture is much closer to South America than North. Yet, they go North. Why do you think that is?

Dear Japan,

I am an unemployed Englishman who wishes to move to Japan. I am willing to work one day a week as a volunteer for a charity, but other than that I would like to be supported by the Japanese taxpayer. I heard someone got shot in my home city of Birmingham, so I'm fleeing violence. Plus, we're technically in a state of conflict with the Irish. Please note that this conflict is listed on the Wikipedia page of "ongoing armed conflicts". I am therefore a refugee, not an economic migrant. I have chosen Japan due to the geographical and cultural closeness. I can speak no Japanese, and I don't really like fish, except for cod and tuna. I also oppose whale hunting.

I look forward to a nice property on the outskirts of Tokyo where everyone speaks English.
Regards,
OngBonga.

Oh yes, yes. The dreaded economic migrant who is unwilling to work. Truly one of the worlds greatest mysteries.

[oskar]

Spoon, you might actually have brain damage. What is this? Is this the type Trump would rape? How does this belong here?

[OngBonga]

In that case, we will let you watch the Japanese porn while you squat in your own filth in our camp. But, we're going to pixellate not just the genitals, but everything except the men's assholes. That way you can think about how you've dishonoured yourself.

I dunno if you remember, but when the internet first happened, there were a few pictures doing the rounds. There was one called "tubgirl". Google it if you dare. It's a woman lying on her back in a tub, legs and arse up, with a stream of diarrhea coming out, and arcing up and back down into her mouth. Whoever published this image first of all took the time to pixelate her vagina. The single greatest act of censorship ever.

Don't google it.

[OngBonga]

Oh yes, yes. The dreaded economic migrant who is unwilling to work. Truly one of the worlds greatest mysteries.

Who needs to work when you can move to a welfare state and get paid 10x more to do nothing than the average worker gets back home?

[OngBonga]

Spoon, you might actually have brain damage. What is this? Is this the type Trump would rape? How does this belong here?

This comment seems pretty mentally unstable. Who looks at an image of a child with lipstick on and thinks "Trump rape"?

[oskar]

One of the women who claims she was raped by Epstein, also claims that Trump raped her more than once when she was 13. This was never corroborated because the no-prosecution deal that Alexander Acosta (Trumps ex labor secretary as of this week) got Epstein also granted immunity to co-conspirators who were never prosecuted. It is very likely that Trump will be named at the very least as a witness when this goes to trial. This is what he's trying to cover up with his tirades, which some here will call genius. I would call it the equivalent of pissing your pants to cover up the fact that you also shat yourself.
The "type to rape" refers to Trump calling the latest and 21st woman to claim to have been raped by Trump, "not his type," raising the question what his type [to rape] would be.

[oskar]

Who needs to work when you can move to a welfare state and get paid 10x more to do nothing than the average worker gets back home?

Like most racist tropes, these are your feelings, and not at all supported by reality:
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/for...orkers-Summary

[OngBonga]

Like most racist tropes, these are your feelings, and not at all supported by reality:

Islam isn't a race.

[OngBonga]

Immigrants aren't a race.

[OngBonga]

What race of people am I discriminating against oskar?

[OngBonga]

They're not my feelings, by the way. That was hyperbole.

[oskar]

There are a negligible number of muslims in the entire south american continent. Conflating all brown people with muslims is also a racist trope.

[OngBonga]

There are a negligible number of muslims in the entire south american continent. Conflating all brown people with muslims is also a racist trope.

I haven't said anything about skin colour. You're the one assuming "immigrant" means "brown skinned person".

[OngBonga]

You didn't answer my question oskar... what race of people am I discriminating against?

[Poopadoop]

Who looks at an image of a child with lipstick on and thinks "Trump rape"?

Are his initials DJT?

[oskar]

You didn't answer my question oskar... what race of people am I discriminating against?

I have never accused you of making a coherent point. You were talking about migrants from South America claiming they're mostly economic migrants. I don't understand why that would be bad, but there are also clear indications that the current spike in migration from Honduras is due to the danger associated with staying in their home country. There obviously is migration to other south american countries, which you don't hear from, because the Nicaragua Times is not going to show up on your newsfeed. The reason a lot don't camp out in Guatemala is because Guatemala is facing many of the same problems, not entirely unrelated to US foreign policy. Which is also why it's hilarious that the US is trying to establish Guatemala as a "safe 3rd country" to request asylum to the US.

And while we're talking about this you bring up muslims, which isn't the first time. Honestly I have no clue what you're talking about.

[OngBonga]

I don't understand why that would be bad

It's not. It's just that economic migrants don't share the same rights as refugees, which is why many economic migrants pretend to be refugees.

And while we're talking about this you bring up muslims, which isn't the first time. Honestly I have no clue what you're talking about.

I did quickly correct myself. I was talking to poop about Islamic immigration, which is more of a problem here than South American immigration. I'm not even sure I would have a problem with legitimate South American migrants, assuming they don't turn up unannounced with their children in tow and expect to be let in with no questions asked.

I have a problem with Islamic immigration because I don't like oppressive batshit religion,and I kind of resent people coming here and not integrating. I don't have a problem with Chinese immigrants, nor Polish, nor Caribbean. That's because they don't bring their crazy ideology and they tend to mix with the rest of us.

[OngBonga]

I have never accused you of making a coherent point

You accused me of racism. Yet you can't tell me which race I'm discriminating against. It's a bit rich for you to mock my coherence.

[spoonitnow]

Who needs to work when you can move to a welfare state and get paid 10x more to do nothing than the average worker gets back home?

Correct.

[spoonitnow]

This comment seems pretty mentally unstable. Who looks at an image of a child with lipstick on and thinks "Trump rape"?

TDS

[OngBonga]

This is the world we live in...

Headline - Pound slumps against the Euro.
Comments -
Reaminer - this is what the racists voted for.
Leaver - I work in a shop in a tourist hotspot, the Chinese tourists are spending more.
Remainer - are they taking photos of pandas?

So... voting to leave the EU... racist. Stereotyping Chinese tourists... fine.