oops - what no poll

[zenbitz]

Where do you guys get your info? Rush Limbaugh?

This is pointless... but http://www.pnhp.org/


A B C
England 5.6 75.68 80.39
France 4.6 75.2 82.8
Germany 4.4 75.38 81.22
Sweden 3.0 77.30 82.00
Japan 3.9 78.36 85.33
USA 6.8 74.4 79.8

"A" is Infant mortality rate (lower is better)
"B" is Life Expectancy, male (higher is better)
"C" is Life Expectancy, female (higher is better)

Data is between 2000-2002 (2003 Japan, from 1998 Sweden)

I will have to ask my Swedish friends about waits for Gyno exams, but since they are clearly healthier, maybe they need fewer?

The point here, in case that it needs spelling out - all these countreis have similar standards of living to the US, better vital health statistics, and nationalized health care.

As for raising taxes... I am all for it! I only wish it could be done rapidly (i.e., like quadruple them) without trashing the economy.

The rich can pay to get better services... ain't nuthin gonna change that. But the Poor should have basic MINIMUM services, same as the middle class. And what kinda middle class person do YOU know that has any real health care options? It's all HMO now anyway. YOu can get a PPO, but you have to pay extra!

Finally, I do live in the USA - San Francisco, CA. While that''s not surprising, I do work (when I have a job) for the pharma industrry, and make enough to live in the Bay Area (although not actually BUY a house)... so I am in favor of raising my OWN taxes (as long as everyone who makes more than me, and businesses as well also go up)

But hell, National Health care isn't even radical! It has been proposed by actual senators!

You want radical:
Eliminate all inheritance except for a single family homestead (and yes I have kids)

I am not really a true communist... but there are certain industries that should be public.

1) The military
2) Healthcare
3) Insurance - Don't get me started on insuracance compnanies.
4) Education
5) Transportation (Highways, Subways, Buses, etc.)

On the lighter side... I have a friend who really DOES this we should go back do the days of the roman empire! Cruxifixions live at 5... still, we agree to disagree on this. Hope you all feel the same way.

[geeftr]

this reply is aimed towards elipsesjeff and his comment on my statemement: "incorrect opinions in my belief but thats your choice". It didn't mean you can't disagree and argue with opinions you belive to be wrong. I was trying to make the point (obviously unsuccesfully!) that most people develop their opinions from personal circumstances and its very difficult to convince them to change their opinions as they are ingraned in them - myself included. Your opinion that Bush deserves to re-elected is ludicrous in my opinon because he's a war monger - one reason only that is good enough to get rid of him - in my opinion.

as for the media control in America - if you think that the owner of a company has no control over its output then I'm afraid your wrong. A media company owned by conservatives will produce conservative bias in their reports and if all the staff are liberals then their work will either be screened or they will be replaced. It wouldn't make good business sense to allow the liberals to critisize conservative policies and I'm sure these conglomorates agree.

[zenbitz]

since someone else activated this thread... I just skimmed an article in the Nation (which I have no problem calling liberal... unlike Kerry) about how National Heath care (single-payer) systems are MUCH better for businesses, because it grossly lowers their per-employee cost.

But US busnessess are against it on reflex because it "smacks of socialism"

THe problem with the current system is that it's completley ineffecient. There are 1000's of companies (HMOs, insurance co's), the government (medicare/cal), etc. Not to mention docs, hospitals, and big pharma all trying to squeeze maximum profits out of services that are needed by all. If a drug company has only 1 payer to negiotiate price with, they are somewhat in a less powerful position.

I will say this - and I am in the industry - the phama industry is due for a BIG correction. There is no way the current system can continue - and what I think is going to happen is that the FDA is going to stop mandating "efficacy" for new drugs - they will focus primarily on safety. This wilil be coupled with some legistlation to keep the price of patent medicine down.