The Official MMA thread. (spoilers!)

[wufwugy]

photoshop contest about him being a big bitch started by struve

[wufwugy]

I think I might start posting picks. I've been extremely successful with "play money" handicapping. Maybe one day I'll actually do some real money, but word is that the limits are so low that it's not worth it, plus I'm not sure I want the stress of losing money like I've developed with other things. Anyways, I adore trying to beat the betting odds for MMA, but it is also a bit too easy. A few examples from the past

Shogun was around +125 against Machida in the rematch, I had him at around -300, Mitrione was around -200 against Kimbo, I had him at around -700, Werdum was around +500 against Fedor, I had him at around -125, Sylvia was around -250 against Pudz, I had him at around -2000 no joke, Overeem was around -200 against Rogers, I had him closer to -1000. I think that demonstrates how poorly I think lines are set relative to reality

I kinda stopped caring after I hit the biggest upset in Werdum over Fedor. I didn't consider it an upset, but I don't think I could make a better analysis of any fight in the future than I did for that one. I'm a little saddened it ended so quickly though because it allows nuthuggers to make up more excuses for Fedor as they have been doing.

Anyways, I've gone 8 for 8 in my last picks. It couldn't hurt to post picks now. But watch, I'm gonna get all these wrong now. Just the way the Universe rolls. Especially since I think these picks are close and have high volatility



Roger Gracie is decent at -135. I'm not going back to watch his latest fight or any of Prangley's though because I don't care enough. I'll wait to try to figure either of them out when they're in title contention. Gracie is overall the more talented fighter, and he will probably show up prepared enough to win

It doesn't sound right, but I'm going out on a limb and saying Herschel Walker is great at -300. He's a phenomenal athlete, despite what retards say he's a real MMArtist, AKA will make sure he's very well prepared, and Coker does not want him to lose so Carson should be a good fight for him. However, both Gracie and Walker will suffer a little from name recognition and the lines will be a little extra weighted towards them on that, but not so much so that they're not both favorites

Jacare is better at everything than Lawler. Babalu outstruck Lawler, and Jacare would outstrike Babalu. Getting it to the ground may be a struggle since Hughes will have Lawler pretty prepared with his wrestling, but Lawler is a brawler through and through. He's not going to beat technique and speed, and that's Jacare. Jacare is a steal at -200

Nick Diaz is a strange cat. In some ways he's awesome, others not so much. He never loses badly, but he also never devastates good comp. He's underrated inasmuch as without time limits he's possibly the best WW on the planet, but he's barely even top ten in current rules, and Nick's wins aren't really that great to begin with. Cyborg OTOH is a make or break, and generally lower level. But he's gonna be pimp for this fight. He beat Zaromskis better than Nick did, his wife would go five rounds with Nick, he's going to be very motivated for this fight for various reasons including having to prove things to his wife and Brazilians, he's quite big with an excellent chin and speed and power. Nick has the endurance advantage, but it's not a huge advantage since I think Cyborgs will be good. Nick is going to get hit very hard, he's not going to do much on the wrestling front and he won't be able to work a sub that easily. Cyborg's technique is going to be quite good, but he will also force a brawl and I think he's a great bet at any positive number. I'd rather Nick win though because then Paul Daley will send his dome into orbit

[Penneywize]

Cool wuf, can you post a link explaining the +/- odds / betting system. It may be a Canadian thing, but the system I'm more familiar with deals with only positive, three digit numbers, like 1.25 or 0.85 or whatever, generally referring to the return on a 1 unit bet.

So if the Canadiens play the Flyers, you could have the canadiens at 1.30 and flyers at 0.85, meaning the flyers are the favourites by a significant margin.

I may be (probably) butchering this, I don't gamble on sports much. Perhaps this'll serve to demonstrate my ignorance and need to be educated on the subject.

Enlighten me.

[wufwugy]

I don't gamble on sports either, but I plan to in the future.

Laying on +200 means you're the 2:1 dog and have to win 33% of the time to break even, laying on -200 means you're the 2:1 fav and have to win 66% of the time to break even. -600 means you're a huge fav and when winning you profit one to six on your money, +600 means you're a huge dog and when winning you profit six to one on your money. Or something like that

[wufwugy]

Roger is the real fucking deal. That was possibly the best grappling I've seen in MMA. I wasn't sure how well his striking and transitions were coming along, but he's doing excellently. Future champ, and I don't have him as much of a dog against any LHW on the planet right now. I guarantee every LHW watching that fight made a mental note to never ever ever go to the ground with him

Herschel Walker is what happens when the sport starts garnering the attention of top athletes. The other day, I somewhat facetiously claimed that Herschel would beat Fedor, but that's not too far from true. The days of a pudgy Russian beating freaks, bloated LHWs, subpar athletes, and one dimensional fighters are over, and somebody even as green as Herschel would be a big threat. While Herschel may be old, the level of athlete he is has never been seen in MMA, and likely will not be seen within a decade without crossover

Despite what the retarded commentators said, Jacare was never in much trouble

I can't believe how beatable Nick Diaz is. He's such an excellent fighter, but for a few reasons, he's never going to be best of the best. He needs to do things like throw double the number of strikes. It's a big mistake for him to sacrifice so much strength and speed for all his endurance yet not use it to its peak. His nuthuggers think beating Cyborg shows he's the GOAT, but reality is that Cyborg is not tip top level, yet he was at a draw with Nick until he decided to strap on a white belt and take a nap on Nick's chest

Diaz vs Daley is Paul's to lose.

[wufwugy]

pat barry rules faces

[wufwugy]

At even, Demetrious Johnson is ldo over Kid. I've watched him a little, and Kid zero, but blacksplosive > Japanese crossover. Betting against JMMA crossover is correct by default alone. To date, Okami is the only legit crossover, and that has happened because he's abandoned his roots' rigidity

I don't care about Rocha vs Ellenberger

I don't have any thoughts on Banuelos vs Torres other than Banuelos is probably not bad at his +300 line. There are still some hype issues with Torres, and so any legit contender is usually at a poorly constructed line.

Rich vs Forrest is an excellent fight, very tough to call, but it doesn't really have any exciting implications so I don't care to figure it out. Neither of them will ever hold a belt again. The only member of the LHW old guard that could would be Randy if he exclusively went the grapple-fuck route. I'm not picking a winner here, just watching

Bader is a beast, but not only is Bones future LHW champ, but future HW champ as well. He is going to make Bader look awkward. Bones is a steal at -300

Britney Silva is one of the most overrated assholes in the game. He gets his ass handed to him by Chael in every way, yet because he was able to exploit one specific flaw in Chael's game, everybody forgets how badly he got whooped. Everybody he's fought was tailor made or made huge mistakes. We already saw what a wrestler who sticks to wrestling can do, and now Vitor will show us what a striker can do.

This is going to be the best Vitor we've ever seen, and I can't wait until he sends Britney's skull into orbit and I finally don't have to hear about his pompous faggot ass anymore. Vitor at +230 is crazy good. I will probably cry if Silva wins

[Penneywize]

Who is this roger character you speak of, and would you think he's 'not much of a dog' against top-level talent like a Jones or a Rua?

Also, RE Anderson Silva, can't say I agree. I am obviously a lot less knowledgeable than you are on the topic... but regarding his sonnen bout, wasn't he suffering from a cracked rib or some shit? When he took his bows, he barely leaned forward at all. Seemed to be out of sorts... I feel like if he were in top shape, the fight would not have been close... I'm guessing by your assertions that you think that this argument is BS, but I'm just trying to figure out why you're convinced he's so so overrated?

[dthorne04]

Britney Silva is one of the most overrated assholes in the game. He gets his ass handed to him by Chael in every way, yet because he was able to exploit one specific flaw in Chael's game, everybody forgets how badly he got whooped. Everybody he's fought was tailor made or made huge mistakes. We already saw what a wrestler who sticks to wrestling can do, and now Vitor will show us what a striker can do.

[wufwugy]

Who is this roger character you speak of, and would you think he's 'not much of a dog' against top-level talent like a Jones or a Rua?

Roger Gracie. The best BJJ in MMA today, at least at open weight. He has an unstoppable ground game and a fantastic clinch. He's basically a super mega Gracie. What I mean by that is that the Gracies are all about making a point about the superiority of grappling to everything else. Roger is showing that he's trying to do exactly that

I don't think there is a single LHW or HW in the UFC that he doesn't sub in a grappling match, and I think that he's developing his striking and clinch to make sure he gets it to the mat for MMA. Prangley is not joke, and Roger made him look like a grappling amateur.

Also, RE Anderson Silva, can't say I agree. I am obviously a lot less knowledgeable than you are on the topic... but regarding his sonnen bout, wasn't he suffering from a cracked rib or some shit?

More like he's suffering from being a liar. I'll give him a cracked rib, maybe he had it, maybe he didn't, I don't care. The man is a clown, and has been a hype machine since the beginning of his UFC reign. Excluding Chael, not once in Silva's UFC career has he faced somebody who excels at something and stuck to a gameplan.

He's good, but he's not the p4p king like so many people think.

Hendo would have kicked his ass if he didn't abandon wrestling, Maia would have at least gotten very close if he had used aggressive wrestling, Forrest would have given him a war if he tried to grind instead of diving right into Silva's pot-shotting gameplan, and Vitor is going to KTFO him by virtue of being the first excellent striker he's ever faced

My hope is that Britney tries to bring back the Ali Shuffle. There's a reason he's 1-1 in boxing and Freddie Roach said he couldn't make it

[wufwugy]

Except that it's a fact. We know he's good, but he has done nothing to demonstrate he's as good as everybody thinks. If a game Vitor shows up, yet Silva beats him up at that game, then he'll be about halfway to the point that everybody currently has him. The other thing he'll need to do is show that he can handle an aggressive grappler, which we already know he can't. All the stuff about him handling Chael is retarded, Chael gets triangled by everybody, and I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did

The fact of the matter is that we don't know how good Silva is, but that having him anywhere close to p4p king is silly. But for some reason MMA fans are incapable of looking beyond a strict reading of wins and losses

[wufwugy]

Homey got in Britney's head

[dthorne04]

you're right wufwugy, silva's definitely never done anything to ever earn any of the praise or reputation he has.

and chael sonnen wasn't on PEDs. and anderson silva hasn't lost a fight in five years. def a bum though.

i mean, he's falling off a bit due to age probably but it's ridiculous how close minded you are about this

how are you not a gimmick account?

[dthorne04]

for the record, i think belfort's gonna win this fight.

[wufwugy]

He does have some solid wins and attributes. But he got to be the p4p king by out striking Franklin and dancing around BJJ guys? In order to be at the level that everybody says he's at, he has to face tip top guys who match up with him well and who will rely on excellent gameplans. That has only happened to him once in the past several years, it was from Chael, and we saw him not only get wrestle-fucked, but outstruck by somebody he was supposed to dance circles around

My picks will speak for themselves though. Of my last like fifty picks, I've gotten a few wrong, but most have been spot on. I just never posted them

[Donachello]

I'll take Vitor as a 60/40 favorite in this fight tbh.
Jones will dominate.
Griffin wins by rear naked in the second or third.
Torres wins by decision.

[spoonitnow]

He does have some solid wins and attributes. But he got to be the p4p king by out striking Franklin and dancing around BJJ guys? In order to be at the level that everybody says he's at, he has to face tip top guys who match up with him well and who will rely on excellent gameplans. That has only happened to him once in the past several years, it was from Chael, and we saw him not only get wrestle-fucked, but outstruck by somebody he was supposed to dance circles around

My picks will speak for themselves though. Of my last like fifty picks, I've gotten a few wrong, but most have been spot on. I just never posted them

yeah until vitor got kicked in the face

[rong]

Spoon! You just banned me from mirc chat? WTF is that all about? I just needed a bit of support, I'm pretty lost pokerwise rigtht now, feel that I've been kicked for no reason. That's really shit.

[dthorne04]

DEFINITELY OVERRATED

[spoonitnow]

Spoon! You just banned me from mirc chat? WTF is that all about? I just needed a bit of support, I'm pretty lost pokerwise rigtht now, feel that I've been kicked for no reason. That's really shit.

I warned you like 3-4 times to stop bitching, so you got banned for an hour. Also this is totally not the place for it.

[spoonitnow]

Except that it's a fact. We know he's good, but he has done nothing to demonstrate he's as good as everybody thinks. If a game Vitor shows up, yet Silva beats him up at that game, then he'll be about halfway to the point that everybody currently has him. The other thing he'll need to do is show that he can handle an aggressive grappler, which we already know he can't. All the stuff about him handling Chael is retarded, Chael gets triangled by everybody, and I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did

The fact of the matter is that we don't know how good Silva is, but that having him anywhere close to p4p king is silly. But for some reason MMA fans are incapable of looking beyond a strict reading of wins and losses

[rong]

I don't know the place for it! And I didn't realise you warned me. I'm not exactly a reg in the chatroom. But hey thanks for being fucking underdstaning! FU! And if I realised I was being warned I'd of changed my behavior, I just wanted to talk to someone! Thanks for the dam support!

[spoonitnow]

I don't know the place for it! And I didn't realise you warned me. I'm not exactly a reg in the chatroom. But hey thanks for being fucking underdstaning! FU! And if I realised I was being warned I'd of changed my behavior, I just wanted to talk to someone! Thanks for the dam support!

See http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...tc-185558.html

[spoonitnow]

Britney Silva is one of the most overrated assholes in the game. He gets his ass handed to him by Chael in every way, yet because he was able to exploit one specific flaw in Chael's game, everybody forgets how badly he got whooped. Everybody he's fought was tailor made or made huge mistakes. We already saw what a wrestler who sticks to wrestling can do, and now Vitor will show us what a striker can do.

This is going to be the best Vitor we've ever seen, and I can't wait until he sends Britney's skull into orbit and I finally don't have to hear about his pompous faggot ass anymore. Vitor at +230 is crazy good. I will probably cry if Silva wins

[spoonitnow]

Steven Segal Discusses The Fron Kick He Taught Anderson Silva Video | Bleacher Report

[Penneywize]

wufwugy noticeably absent from this thread

[Roid_Rage]

Has probably been discussed ITT already, but where do you watch these fights at? I've never been real big into MMA, but I'd like to watch some matches every now and then.

[wufwugy]

wufwugy noticeably absent from this thread

Because I'm reminded of why I left the thread before

Nobody cares about actually understanding the sport, just making kneejerk reactions, irrational judgments, and selection biases. I would love to have a discussion about what actually happened and what it means, but that's asking too much


Just for you: the case for Silva being the GOAT improved only slightly in this fight. I was hoping that if he won, it would be in a very methodically dominant fashion because then the case for him being as good as everybody says would have skyrocketed. Without getting into details, flukey things are a systemic necessity in MMA, but when they happen, their meaning is always misunderstood

Take two antipodal fights: Overeem vs Rogers and Silva vs Belfort. In the former, Overeem demonstrated that he is light years ahead of Rogers, in the latter, Silva did not. The former was complete and utter domination while the latter was relatively even until a mistake and catch with a bit of luck. The latter is not to be dismissed, but also should be correctly understood, and not hailed as demonstration of supreme greatness.

Aldo's last three fights were about 10x more impressive than Silva's, Overeem's 2010 was more impressive than any year Silva's had, Cain's last two performances were more impressive than Silva's, same with GSP, even Bones has been more impressive.

I never said Silva is crap, I said he's not a god like everybody thinks. The line on Belfort is still correct, and that fight does next to nothing to suggest that Silva is ahead of everybody else

Frankly, this was the worst outcome in so many ways. I am not interested in GSP moving up because then there's a paper champ at WW and even though GSP should be able to beat Silva, I think he's gonna be in GSP's head, and that could sway it to Silva's favor. It's not a coincidence that the only person who has seen through Silva's bullshit put a beating on him for four and a half rounds

Anyways, I'm not going to participate when flamed. If there is discussion to be had, I'm in, but if it's the usual finger pointing, I'm a ghost

[spoonitnow]

lolololololol wuf mad for reeeeeeeeeeal

[wufwugy]

Has probably been discussed ITT already, but where do you watch these fights at? I've never been real big into MMA, but I'd like to watch some matches every now and then.

for live something like channelsurf.eu, for replays mmalinker or torrents

[wufwugy]

lolololololol wuf mad for reeeeeeeeeeal

At least you finally made me laugh

For realsies yo, I'd rather give Brock and Fedor foot massages than watch Silva ever win another fight. Few things get my panites in an uproar, and watching an egomaniac with many less than stellar performances of recent be hailed as the greatest is one of them

On the bright side, at least now Condit will be WW champ after GSP makes Shields his boi toi then moves up

FWIW, Silva did demonstrate superb footwork better than ever before. His positioning against Belfort was substantially more telling of his talent than that particular KO

[Penneywize]

Well, it's hard to find fault with much of what you're saying, wuf. I for one didn't think the epic face-kick was some kind of demonstration of Silva's god-like ability; I would think that about 90-95 times out of 100, that kick doesn't catch Belfort square on the chin, and at most, leaves him phased for a moment before recovering. The fight, up until that point, seemed to be going the way of belfort, for whatever that's worth.

As for an eventual GSP vs Silva bout - I suppose this would have as good a chance as any to finally settle the p4p issue. Of course, this assumes GSP wins vs Shields, which doesn't, to me, seem to be a given.

Thing about GSP is that it seems like 8 billion years since he's actually finished an opponent. He always dominates, however, and rarely if ever loses a round... meh... I guess we'll just have to see how this one plays out.

What's the line on GSP / Shields btw?

[wufwugy]

Well, it's hard to find fault with much of what you're saying, wuf. I for one didn't think the epic face-kick was some kind of demonstration of Silva's god-like ability; I would think that about 90-95 times out of 100, that kick doesn't catch Belfort square on the chin, and at most, leaves him phased for a moment before recovering. The fight, up until that point, seemed to be going the way of belfort, for whatever that's worth.

As for an eventual GSP vs Silva bout - I suppose this would have as good a chance as any to finally settle the p4p issue. Of course, this assumes GSP wins vs Shields, which doesn't, to me, seem to be a given.

Thing about GSP is that it seems like 8 billion years since he's actually finished an opponent. He always dominates, however, and rarely if ever loses a round... meh... I guess we'll just have to see how this one plays out.

What's the line on GSP / Shields btw?

Here's my p4p analysis

The current race is between GSP and Aldo. You kinda can't argue against GSP because he dominates all comers to about as close to perfection as anybody. However, Aldo has been looking to do that as well, except even moreso.

If GSP dominated Silva then he would be the p4p king. If Aldo dominated Hominick standing and after that Mendes tried to wrestle-fuck him yet failed then Aldo would also be virtually impossible to argue against as the p4p king. The only thing that would be missing from making Aldo the greatest there ever was would be out-grappling a world class BJJ guy, but I don't think there's anybody at that level at FW right now.

I always have Shogun up there as well. He's the LHW GOAT, and if you look at his record, the only losses he's had were when he was fucking injured or some shit like a robbery. While I still have him higher than Silva, I think he's soon going to be dropped from his status at LHW by Bones

My dark horses in p4p are Overeem, Cain, and Bones. People mistakenly keep bigger guys out of these categorizations. But what it boils down to is who they beat, what happens in the fights, and how impressively they win. 2010 showed Overeem as being arguably one of the greatest combat athletes to ever live, and I fully expect him to utterly annihilate his next three Strikeforce challenges. I think he's going to beat all his non-UFC opponents so badly that he'll have to be considered some kind of p4p all-star. He's come a very long way from the infancy of his career

Cain Velasquez is similar. Granted, I think Nog and Brock were not top five when he fought them, but he brutalized them with excellence, and that's what you look for in p4p almost more than anything. Cain vs Junior is the biggest HW fight in MMA history, and I'm getting the feeling that Cain is going to convincingly win that one, despite the fact that Junior is going to be crazy good as well.

Then there's Bones. I hate going against Shogun because he's fucking awesome, but I think Bones is going to make even him awkward similar to how he did with Bader. The guy has the body of a HW, speed of a MW, and is unbelievably naturally talented. Just to note, his comments about his guillotine over Bader was that he had never even drilled it. The guy is out of this world, and if he demolishes Shogun, he should be considered about as high on the p4p list as anybody today

When you contrast those to Silva, who dances around BJJ guys with shit wrestling and striking, got decimated for 23 minutes by a better fighter called Chael, then his case for p4p doesn't look too great. However, he did have some rather stellar matrixy performances against several good to great competitors, so it is really tough to figure out exactly where he sits. What I do know about Silva is that he has never dominated an excellent opponent. If Silva dispatched Belfort the way Overeem dispatched Edwards in K1, then I would eat my words and say that if he rematched Chael (or even fought Okami) yet this time beat him for the first 23 minutes, then he's the p4p king. Without that, there are still questions that are tough to flesh out

Besides, Dana says he's the greatest which means he's not ldo. Because Dana is a fucking liar


RE: GSP. Jake Shields is dead. GSP is one of the worst matchups for him possible. And GSP has a problem finishing guys because he's not a risk taker. He wants to win fights as "correctly" as he can, which means that he'll do things like jab n jog Koscheck. Because that's the best exploitation he could get. Generally speaking, you have to open yourself up in order to get power behind finishes, and generally GSP will revert to out-pointing before opening himself up.

I think it makes for somewhat boring fights, but I still respect what he can do. Also, GSP simply has a lot to learn. If he had Overeem's muay thai skills or Roger Gracie's BJJ skills he would have finished everybody he's fought

[Donachello]

lulz.

GSP vs Silva will be a joke. Silva is the size of a LHW or a small HW and GSP is on the medium size for a WW.

Also, lol at continually bringing up the Chael fight. Have you ever played a sport that involved twisting with a hurt rib? It's like almost impossible. Not that I am all over Silva's nuts, I wasn't exactly blown away by the front kick either and I think that had Belfort rushed/pressured him more it would have been a different story despite Silva's countering style.

That being said, Silva is clearly P4P #1 followed by GSP and Aldo in a tie. Cain doesn't have enough fights be up there yet and once he loses to JDS he will be out of the P4P picture. After Shogun beats JJ, Rampage, and Evans in his 3 consecutive titled defenses he will be mentioned in the top 4-5.

Oh yeah, and watch out for Showtime in 155 because he is miles better than Maynard or Edgar.

[CoccoBill]

lulz.

GSP vs Silva will be a joke. Silva is the size of a LHW or a small HW and GSP is on the medium size for a WW.

Also, lol at continually bringing up the Chael fight. Have you ever played a sport that involved twisting with a hurt rib? It's like almost impossible. Not that I am all over Silva's nuts, I wasn't exactly blown away by the front kick either and I think that had Belfort rushed/pressured him more it would have been a different story despite Silva's countering style.

That being said, Silva is clearly P4P #1 followed by GSP and Aldo in a tie. Cain doesn't have enough fights be up there yet and once he loses to JDS he will be out of the P4P picture. After Shogun beats JJ, Rampage, and Evans in his 3 consecutive titled defenses he will be mentioned in the top 4-5.

Oh yeah, and watch out for Showtime in 155 because he is miles better than Maynard or Edgar.

+1

I get that it's not fashionable to like Silva, I don't like his boasting either and I don't think he's some unbeatable demigod. He is, however, the best p4p in my book at the moment. The way and relative ease he dismantled e.g. Leben, Franklin twice, Henderson, Griffin and now Belfort with is spectacular. None of them are really known for their glass jaws and how easy it is to finish them but Silva absolutely crushed them, most of the time with seemingly little effort. To not like him is one thing, but to fail to acknowledge his skills and dominance is completely different.

[Luke999]

Totally disagree that Silva is P4P above GSP. GSP has faced better competition and has totally locked down and dominated in all aspects of his fights. Silva has shown to be suspect to wrestlers and lets be honest he has barely faced any good strikers and Vitor looked comfortable until that kick which was a total variance blip.
A wrestler with good submission defence would be a nightmare for Silva as would somebody like Vitor who has legit BJJ, good wrestling and sick striking. I mean Silva obviously wins those fights x% of the time but I'd pick Vitor to be a favourite if you ran that fight 1000 times.

For GSP sure you can mention the Serra fight but again that was just like the kick which put Vitor out. GSP's striking has got much better and his wrestling and sub defence would be a nightmare for Silva.
The worst match-up for GSP would be somebody with amazing striking and TDD, even then GSP has good enough movement and striking to not be totally suspect, which is more than you could say for Silva vs a wrestler with good sub defence.

Obviously it is easy to pick certain areas of fights etc to say Silva would beat GSP but I think in general if that fight was ran multiple times, GSP is a comfortable favourite.

[Toadstool]

Here's my p4p analysis

The current race is between GSP and Aldo. You kinda can't argue against GSP because he dominates all comers to about as close to perfection as anybody. However, Aldo has been looking to do that as well, except even moreso.

If GSP dominated Silva then he would be the p4p king. If Aldo dominated Hominick standing and after that Mendes tried to wrestle-fuck him yet failed then Aldo would also be virtually impossible to argue against as the p4p king. The only thing that would be missing from making Aldo the greatest there ever was would be out-grappling a world class BJJ guy, but I don't think there's anybody at that level at FW right now.

I always have Shogun up there as well. He's the LHW GOAT, and if you look at his record, the only losses he's had were when he was fucking injured or some shit like a robbery. While I still have him higher than Silva, I think he's soon going to be dropped from his status at LHW by Bones

My dark horses in p4p are Overeem, Cain, and Bones. People mistakenly keep bigger guys out of these categorizations. But what it boils down to is who they beat, what happens in the fights, and how impressively they win. 2010 showed Overeem as being arguably one of the greatest combat athletes to ever live, and I fully expect him to utterly annihilate his next three Strikeforce challenges. I think he's going to beat all his non-UFC opponents so badly that he'll have to be considered some kind of p4p all-star. He's come a very long way from the infancy of his career

Cain Velasquez is similar. Granted, I think Nog and Brock were not top five when he fought them, but he brutalized them with excellence, and that's what you look for in p4p almost more than anything. Cain vs Junior is the biggest HW fight in MMA history, and I'm getting the feeling that Cain is going to convincingly win that one, despite the fact that Junior is going to be crazy good as well.

Then there's Bones. I hate going against Shogun because he's fucking awesome, but I think Bones is going to make even him awkward similar to how he did with Bader. The guy has the body of a HW, speed of a MW, and is unbelievably naturally talented. Just to note, his comments about his guillotine over Bader was that he had never even drilled it. The guy is out of this world, and if he demolishes Shogun, he should be considered about as high on the p4p list as anybody today

When you contrast those to Silva, who dances around BJJ guys with shit wrestling and striking, got decimated for 23 minutes by a better fighter called Chael, then his case for p4p doesn't look too great. However, he did have some rather stellar matrixy performances against several good to great competitors, so it is really tough to figure out exactly where he sits. What I do know about Silva is that he has never dominated an excellent opponent. If Silva dispatched Belfort the way Overeem dispatched Edwards in K1, then I would eat my words and say that if he rematched Chael (or even fought Okami) yet this time beat him for the first 23 minutes, then he's the p4p king. Without that, there are still questions that are tough to flesh out

Besides, Dana says he's the greatest which means he's not ldo. Because Dana is a fucking liar


RE: GSP. Jake Shields is dead. GSP is one of the worst matchups for him possible. And GSP has a problem finishing guys because he's not a risk taker. He wants to win fights as "correctly" as he can, which means that he'll do things like jab n jog Koscheck. Because that's the best exploitation he could get. Generally speaking, you have to open yourself up in order to get power behind finishes, and generally GSP will revert to out-pointing before opening himself up.

I think it makes for somewhat boring fights, but I still respect what he can do. Also, GSP simply has a lot to learn. If he had Overeem's muay thai skills or Roger Gracie's BJJ skills he would have finished everybody he's fought

In regards to Shogun vs Bones, I'm going to put a lot of money on Shogun, I can't believe he's the underdog for this fight. I think that Bones will eventually be champion, but currently I think Shogun will make him look silly in the stand-up, and he won't have an easy a time on the ground as he did against Bader + it's a 5 round fight, and he noticeably slowed in the 3rd vs Bonner and also looked slower in the 2nd against Bader.

Also, JDS at -150 against Brock, that's like finding a tilted Italian HU.

[wufwugy]

Silva lies waaaay too much to take his word on a rib injury. Also, his record is not as impressive as it may be at first glance. Hendo was beating him until he decided to abandon the wrestling, Franklin's wins are suspiciously over not so great comp or highly contested decisions, Leben is Leben, that stuff.

I hope that Shogun beats Bones because I love the guy. But I must admit that I think I would even pick Rashad over Shogun despite the fact that I hate him. Shogun is way better than him and he lost to both Thiago Silva and Rampage according to the only correct way to score fights (damage). But I think stylistically, Rashad could actually be a favorite over guys like Shogun, and it pisses me off. Regardless, I'm happy to never watch him fight again. Or wait, he should rematch Thiago Silva sans the broken back this time

I hate the GSP/Silva fight, but I will have GSP winning it. The stuff about Silva being a big MW and GSP a small WW is a myth. Weight will not be a factor in the fight, but limb length will be. GSP is simply going to mimic Chael, but it will be more difficult due to shorter limbs and more danger from knees from height. He will succeed though. That's what GSP does. Silva dances and gets in a hussy over people trying to challenge him, GSP just wins. The worst thing about the fight is that it will be a whole six months before Silva is stripped of the title. He luckboxed the last six months, and Dana's trying to luckbox him out of an Okami beatdown

[wufwugy]

[spoonitnow]

haha nice

[Ravageur]

lol wtf is that gif? Did Belfort do some foot fetish porn leading up to this fight?

Also how hilarious was him coming out with Steven Seagal wearing yellow shades?

[wufwugy]

Pretty sure that's Vitor's wife's foot. It was aired in Brazil national TV or some shit

[d0zer]

best...wuffwuggy...post...ever

[wufwugy]

Another thing to keep in mind about GSP vs Silva is that Georges is Dana's second biggest star and most important investment. Dana wants GSP to stay champ and bring in huge PPVs. It's not a coincidence that Shields got and is keeping the WW title shot. Dana knows GSP is an enormous favorite to win that, and that all the training he does for that fight will play extremely well against Silva.

GSP vs Silva is Silva's biggest PPV possible, and after GSP wins, Dana will have his dream of the already huge WW champ cleaning out his division, moving up and beating the "p4p goat", and have a whole new division of even better fighters to challenge him. This will rake in the PPVs like crazy, and that's Dana's main prerogative

Dana knows that his key investment in GSP is the real favorite to beat Silva.

[Luke999]

Pretty much. Whoever thinks Anderson is a better MMA fighter than GSP is crazy. His skill set is superior and by the time he is Andersons age, after consistently training with the array of specialists he has been bringing in, his legacy will be WAY superior.

[wufwugy]

After he beats Britney, his next fight will be Chael. Once Chael starts running his mouth aboot GSP, every Canadian who ever looked for some of that internet money budday will buy the PPV

It's all part of the Baldfather's plan

[wufwugy]

YouTube - Charlie Murphy's True MMA Stories

[kfaess]

YouTube - Charlie Murphy's True MMA Stories

omfg lol

[wufwugy]

Y'all getting ready to watch Bigfoot put an end to the Fedor era? You know, the one that ended years ago, but isn't viewed legitimately until fans start talking about that oh so elusive "prime". Granted, Bigfoot is maybe like top eight or ten, so if Fedor wins without getting beat up, I'll have to bump him up a peg because that will be quite substantially his highest level win to date

And Kharitonov smashes Arlovski. Kharitonov should be on, and as long as he is, he wins. Dreadfully bad matchup for Arlovski as he's simply going to get brawled to death

[manfredi]

Can anyone recommend any good fights from the past? Every time I've ever tried to tune in, the 'fight' quickly devolved into two sweaty men rolling around on the mat, trying to leg-lock eachother. That's kinda disappointing and I have begun to think that MMA might stand for 'male/male action'.

I know there must be a good fight or two... who should I watch if I just want to see punching/kicking/beatdown?

[UG]

http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#4d45330a57f86

it's working right now...went through P2P to find it.

[spoonitnow]

Can anyone recommend any good fights from the past? Every time I've ever tried to tune in, the 'fight' quickly devolved into two sweaty men rolling around on the mat, trying to leg-lock eachother. That's kinda disappointing and I have begun to think that MMA might stand for 'male/male action'.

I know there must be a good fight or two... who should I watch if I just want to see punching/kicking/beatdown?

You're retarded. With that being said, now I'm going to go watch polo, and bitch about the horses.

Edit: Learn something about grappling. Also eat shit and die.

[spoonitnow]

also i wish frank shamrock would shut the fuck up

i mean i loved watching him fight, and he's a funny guy, but every third goddamn thing out of his mouth is some reference to himself and what he does or has done or some shit

[Roid_Rage]

If you want to watch the best fight ever, look up the Forrest Griffin/Steffan Logan fight from Ultimate Fighter 1. Was hands down best thing I've watched on TV ever.

[spoonitnow]

stephan bonnar* but agreed

[UG]

agreed sick fight

bye Fedor

[manfredi]

Thanks guys... I'll check it out sometime.

[wufwugy]

Hard to watch Fedor lose. Even though I talk a lot of crap, it's not about him, he's a pimp. It's about his retard fans hellbent on vacuous analyses of their god.

[Luke999]

Did well on bets, had del rosario to win, mini overeem to win, had kharitonov by knockout. Had Fedor to win by KO but also very good odds on big foot to win (to soften to blow if he did lose lol).

Was the biggest worry, bigfoot getting into mount, good BJJ and big weight advantage = game over,

Fedor looked alot slower than usual especially as he seemed lightning versus Werdum and he didn't vary his striking, just jumping for big bombs, probably due to big reach disadvantage. Bigfoot had that overhand right down to a tee, the takedown in round 2 was well timed. Kinda glad it's last time we see him fight, big skilled heavyweights coming up and don't wanna see him become a Chuck or a Cro Cop.

[Roid_Rage]

stephan bonnar* but agreed

Ty

[wufwugy]

Can anyone recommend any good fights from the past? Every time I've ever tried to tune in, the 'fight' quickly devolved into two sweaty men rolling around on the mat, trying to leg-lock eachother. That's kinda disappointing and I have begun to think that MMA might stand for 'male/male action'.

I know there must be a good fight or two... who should I watch if I just want to see punching/kicking/beatdown?

For awesome battles watch

Melendez vs Thomson II

Couture vs Nogueira

Maynard vs Edgar

Cerrone vs Henderson I


For awesome heavyweight beatdowns watch

Velasquez vs Lesnar

Overeem vs Rogers

Carwin vs Mir


For awesome grappling beatdowns watch

Vazquez vs Pulver

Jacare vs Lindland

Roger Gracie vs Prangley


For the best kickboxing fight in recent history watch

Ghita vs Saki


For the best kickboxing beatdown in recent history watch

Overeem vs Edwards



For the greatest fight in the history of the world watch

Condit vs Hardy




Some grappling is indeed boring, but so is some striking. You have to make sure that you're not a tard who just doesn't wanna know anything about grappling, then you can realize that the actual boring grappling is usually by guys with exceptional wrestling yet sub-elite jiu-jitsu. Once you get guys who have expert jiu-jitsu, you get some exciting ground fighting

[wufwugy]

Holy balls I want Fitch to lose so hard now

YouTube - The Shoot - Jon Fitch - Inside Nutrition

[Donachello]

Holy balls I want Fitch to lose so hard now

YouTube - The Shoot - Jon Fitch - Inside Nutrition

Holy batman.

No wonder Fitch can't finish a fight to save his life.

[CoccoBill]

About time someone speaks up. We gotta stop all these moms from poisoning our babies.

[Donachello]

Wow @ Shogun being a 2:1 dog to Jones o_O

I know he's coming off another knee injury and has ring rust but... 2:1? I don't think so.

[BankItDrew]

Jones is the best up and comer I've ever seen.

[wufwugy]

Wow @ Shogun being a 2:1 dog to Jones o_O

I know he's coming off another knee injury and has ring rust but... 2:1? I don't think so.

It is kinda silly, but I think this time it's warranted.

I don't like Bones in the slightest and will rejoice and sacrifice a virgin if Shogun KOs him, but I don't think it's reasonable to deny that he's truly a "new generation" of MMA.

Bader was the other biggest guy at LHW, and Bones dwarfed him. Bader actually isn't any smaller than Cain (excluding adipose mass). If Shogun can beat Bones, it will be because something goes wrong, or Shogun is really just insanely incredibly fantastically good. Other than that, it will look like a HW fighting a MW, and Bones' gorilla ass will win. The guy fucking guillotined Bader with a move he'd never trained before. Granted, Bader isn't sick technical and experienced, so I have some hopes that Shogun will be able to whether a Bones storm, then beat him via being more developed

I would adore a Shogun win. He's one of my favs. I would argue that he's in the top 3 most naturally talented and mentally formidable MMA to date



In a world grand prix, I think the only two people Bones would lose to are Overeem and Carwin. So that means I think he would beat my #3 and #4 HWs, Cain and Junior. I hate to admit it since the guy's a tard and is going to garner nuthuggery that makes Fedor's look like midgetry

[BankItDrew]

Wufs comments towards Bones:

Negatives:

I don't like Bones in the slightest

I would adore a Shogun win. He's one of my favs.

A'wwwwwwwwwwwwww! That's cute.

I hate to admit it since the guy's a tard and is going to garner nuthuggery

Positives:

The guy fucking guillotined Bader with a move he'd never trained before.

In a world grand prix, I think the only two people Bones would lose to are Overeem and Carwin

I have some hopes that Shogun will be able to whether a Bones storm

If Shogun can beat Bones, it will be because something goes wrong

Bader was the other biggest guy at LHW, and Bones dwarfed him.

Somewhere in between:

Bones' gorilla ass will win

I think you secretly have a man crush on Bones.

[wufwugy]

He's as good as he is because he has very, very special genes. And his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. In a way I envy people like Bones, but I don't particularly like them. He doesn't know what tough shit is

Compare him to one of my favorites, Overeem, and you'll see that he knows what tough shit is. A real warrior gets his ass beat, but comes back better than ever. Bones hasn't done that, and won't for a long time, if ever. Generally, people with such natural greatness have crummy character.

Plus he's mega religious. Vitor bringing Jesus into the cage is okay because he has a reason, Bones doesn't have a reason other than just being naive

[Luke999]

Bader was the other biggest guy at LHW, and Bones dwarfed him. Bader actually isn't any smaller than Cain (excluding adipose mass). If Shogun can beat Bones, it will be because something goes wrong, or Shogun is really just insanely incredibly fantastically good. Other than that, it will look like a HW fighting a MW, and Bones' gorilla ass will win. The guy fucking guillotined Bader with a move he'd never trained before. Granted, Bader isn't sick technical and experienced, so I have some hopes that Shogun will be able to whether a Bones storm, then beat him via being more developed

Size isn't everything, I mean BJJ was created for the little man to defeat the bigger man.

Bones is a white belt, shogun is a 2nd degree black belt. Bader was hugely overrated, he looked horrible against lil nog, his takedowns are slow and telegraphed and he gassed very easily while searching for a big overhand right.

If Shogun is fit, I really don't see how he loses this fight minus a decision. Jones has looked slow in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of his fights, his stand up is nothing special and we haven't seen him weather constant storms from an elite striker.

Jones isn't a power double leg monster like Chael either, he has a lot of takedowns from the clinch, where Shogun will be able to do some damage.

Bones has dominated his opponents but Stephen Bonnar is nothing more than a name and his Bader win is made out to be something special when all it was, was a wake up call to how Bader was chronically overrated.

Fwiw Jones has stayed in condition from his last fight, so he won't be cutting a ton either, obviously he will have a weight advantage but I don't think that is gonna be the decisive factor.

Bones will obviously land some takedowns but I mean Machida couldn't keep Shogun down and he is very strong and a very legit black belt who is very good at using his weight.

Could have a bet on it?

[wufwugy]

Hope you're right

[CoccoBill]

Jones is the best up and comer I've ever seen.

Bollocks. He's beaten an overrated and undisciplined Brandon Vera, over the hill also ran Vladdy Matyushenko and a hyped up one trick pony Bader. He has unlimited potential but I'd hardly call him the best up and comer, Shogun was. Completely decimating Rampage, Lil Nog, Overeem twice, Arona, Randleman...he was, by far, the most spectacular fighter to ever come out of nowhere. Still one of my absolute favorite fighters ever.

I think this is gonna be a great fight.

[wufwugy]

Oh and in response to the accusation that I have a man crush on Bones

[Donachello]

Would still hit, Shogun is a beautiful thing

[BankItDrew]

UFC's parent company buys Strikeforce - MMA Fighting Stances: Mixed martial arts intelligence from the cage and ring - USATODAY.com