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  1. #2101
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What damage?
    Predicting what exactly the damage will be in the middle of the storm is not possible. That doesn't mean we can't know that tornadoes are bad.

    That kinda gets at a point that I imagine may be fundamental to our disagreement here: I think lying is like violence (it's an analogy, I'm not SJWing here)-- there are times when what is on the other side of the equation is so bad that it's worth it, but it should be avoided at all costs and certainly should not be casually employed. It creates an inherently unstable platform from which to go forward, and in the case of lying specifically, this unstable platfrom is caused because lying is by definition a divergence from reality.

    So, yeah, I don't grant that "no" is always the right answer to "do I look fat in this?" It's the easy answer, but the question is indicative of underlying problems in the individual posing the question, and offering the easy answer is indicative of the desire to avoid addressing tough situations in the relationship and thereby sweeping problems under the rug that are bound to surface in a worse way down the road.

    The damage of "no, you don't look fat in it" may never be apparent, it may be very hard or impossible to link back to the seemingly benign white lie, but by examining both the question and the answer we can know that it is at best avoiding underlying issues and possibly exasperating them (she doesn't actually believe you..)

    We don't need to wait for the crash, Trump is driving recklessly.
  2. #2102
    Do you think there are good lies?
  3. #2103
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Do you think there are good lies?
    I'll borrow Sam Harris' answer, "No, there are no jews hiding here."

    Put another way, I think your category of "good lies" is overly broad and much of them are simply convenient lies that are either ostensibly benign or in the short term achieve some goal, but ultimately have negative consequences. But this isn't some sort of karmic system, the teller of the lies need not ever suffer the consequences, and that's what I was getting at with the ocean/lake/pool analogy.
  4. #2104
    What do you think of things along this line: you're are not a confident person. You think you are not attractive, are not smart, and are weak. And you want to change that. So, one of the things you do is positive affirmation. You tell yourself that you are a confident person. That you are handsome and smart and strong. In doing so, you begin to becoming more of the person you tell yourself you are, even if you are not or do not believe it (yet).
  5. #2105
    I haven't posted here in a while, just wanted to say that I am quite pleased with today's news that Trump's personal attorney had his door kicked in by the FBI.

    Personally I don't know why Trump supporters hate the Mueller investigation so much. They're a law and order crowd right? Rule of law applies equally to everyone right, even Trump? If Trump did nothing wrong, than that would surely show up in the investigation and Trump would be exonerated. So long as Trump broke no laws, and every Trump supporter I've met claims that, then they literally have nothing to fear in this investigation.

    If he did break laws though, well, allow me to be the first to proclaim 2020's DNC Convention chant "LOCK HIM UP!".
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-10-2018 at 04:16 AM.
  6. #2106
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    I haven't posted here in a while,
    Is it because you learned so much last time?

    just wanted to say that I am quite pleased with today's news that Trump's personal attorney had his door kicked in by the FBI
    Why does that "please" you? Did Trump or his personal attorney commit a crime against you?

    Personally I don't know why Trump supporters hate the Mueller investigation so much.
    Witch hunt. Waste of money. Beyond it's intended scope. A deep state hit-job. Honestly dude, are you really this uninformed?

    They're a law and order crowd right?
    Are you saying you're not in the 'law and order crowd'?

    Rule of law applies equally to everyone right, even Trump?
    Actually the rules of the special counsel prevent Mueller from charging a sitting president with a crime. So there's that.

    If Trump did nothing wrong, than that would surely show up in the investigation and Trump would be exonerated.
    That's already happened. Congressional intelligence committees have said as much. Mueller himself stated recently that Trump is not a "target" of any criminal investigation. So why is the investigation still happening?

    So long as Trump broke no laws, and every Trump supporter I've met claims that, then they literally have nothing to fear in this investigation.
    Bullshit. If a cop follows you for 500 miles, he WILL find a reason to pull you over. That's why they aren't allowed to do that.
  7. #2107
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Is it because you learned so much last time?


    Why does that "please" you? Did Trump or his personal attorney commit a crime against you?


    Witch hunt. Waste of money. Beyond it's intended scope. A deep state hit-job. Honestly dude, are you really this uninformed?


    Are you saying you're not in the 'law and order crowd'?


    Actually the rules of the special counsel prevent Mueller from charging a sitting president with a crime. So there's that.


    That's already happened. Congressional intelligence committees have said as much. Mueller himself stated recently that Trump is not a "target" of any criminal investigation. So why is the investigation still happening?


    Bullshit. If a cop follows you for 500 miles, he WILL find a reason to pull you over. That's why they aren't allowed to do that.
    No, just haven't had much to comment on lately. Most people don't like to admit they were duped into voting for a conman. I know I wouldn't, humans don't like to admit they were wrong as a general rule of thumb.

    Maybe you can't see this because you indoctrinate yourself with far right American media day in and day out, but people not enveloped in that right wing media bubble, you most definitely elected a more corrupt President than Andrew Johnson, Warren G Harding, or Nixon.

    Yea if you visit far right media, he looks saintly, but to non-right wing spun media, he looks like a really shitty President.

    There's a good documentary you should consider watching called "The Brainwashing of my Dad", it's basically how far right media sources turned a normal, loving, Kennedy Democrat of a dad, into this far right blowhard who listened to far right media every hour he wasn't at work, clicking through long chain emails from right wing sources, and just being a real general cantankerous piece of shit.

    I got one such guy on my friendslist, the general rule is don't argue politics with him, because he's basically utilizing his own set of facts that only exist in the right wing media bubble.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-10-2018 at 03:37 PM.
  8. #2108
    Did I cite any media sources?

    Why do you presume to know where I get my news?

    Why do you presume I'm not a free and independent thinker?

    I'll have you know I read, digest, and scrutinize news from ALL angles, ALL THE TIME. So fuck you.

    And I'm not surprised a Kennedy democrat is now a republican. The democrat party has deviated quite a bit from "Ask not what your country can do for you..." Don't ya think???????


    Also...why do you consider words coming out of Mueller's mouth to be part of the "right wing media bias"? Either he said Trump isn't a target, or he didn't say it.

    The Washington Post (NOT a right wing media source) says he said it.
  9. #2109
    I feel like I've talked to one trump supporter living in flyover country, I've pretty much talked to them all.

    I've talked to a lot of them, and I gather they seem to believe that you "make America better" by "making America worse". That's my broad impression of Trump supporters.

    Like their idea is giving Americans harder and worse lives by and large, will improve their lives, builds character or something. The "pussification of America" they often decry. It seems having 10's of millions of Americans living in massive homeless shanty towns like the Hoovervilles of the 1930's will remedy that problem.

    For example, they support chinese debt financed tax cuts. They know full well debt has to be paid back, they don't care though. All that additional deficit this year has to be paid back, but they don't care about the long term, they care about the now, and present, even if it means shittier times in the future.

    It's like yea, enjoy your tax cut now, because what financing that tax cut, is rolling US Treasury bonds off the printing presses by the $1 trillion per year. And the one who's gonna pay those bonds back, is ultimately going to be the tax payer.

    So anyways that's basically my broad impression of Trump supporters, they believe they "make Americans lives better" by "making Americans lives worse".
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-10-2018 at 05:21 PM.
  10. #2110
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    I feel like I've talked to one trump supporter living in flyover country, I've pretty much talked to them all.
    New Hampshire is flyover country?

    Do you not realize that treating middle class, rural, conservative america as "negligible" is what got Trump elected? Propagating that sentiment by referring to it as "flyover country" makes you just as responsible for Trump, as those who voted for him.

    Finally, your entire opening statement is ignorant and foolish. Pay attention!

    I've talked to a lot of them, and I gather they seem to believe that you "make America better" by "making America worse". That's my broad impression of Trump supporters.
    Got a quote you want to cite?

    Like their idea is giving Americans harder and worse lives by and large, will improve their lives, builds character or something
    Quote/citation please?

    The "pussification of America" they often decry.
    I'm quite sure Hannity has never uttered the phrase "pussification". Where are you getting this quote?

    It seems having 10's of millions of Americans living in massive homeless shanty towns like the Hoovervilles of the 1930's will remedy that problem.
    The midterm elections are in 6 months. There are dozens of political candidates running for major offices. They all have advertising and information campaigns on the internet. They all have websites that detail their views on all of the issues. Can you please provide a link to which candidate(s) support(s) shanty towns?

    For example, they support chinese debt financed tax cuts.
    How is that worse than Bernie's plan of chinese debt financed nanny state?

    They know full well debt has to be paid back,
    Right, so shouldn't we spend it on something that makes money, like economic growth? Or would it be better to spend it on something like welfare checks?

    All that additional deficit this year has to be paid back, but they don't care about the long term, they care about the now, and present, even if it means shittier times in the future.
    You think that tax cuts were implemented just so some rich guys could keep a little more money? even if that insane naive and intellectually lazy premise were true.....what do you think they do with the money?

    It's like yea, enjoy your tax cut now, because what financing that tax cut, is rolling US Treasury bonds off the printing presses by the $1 trillion per year. And the one who's gonna pay those bonds back, is ultimately going to be the tax payer.
    Who else would pay the bonds back? Tax cuts > Economic growth > Jobs > More money > pay debt > repeat. That's how it's supposed to work. But it keeps getting fucked up every time we interrupt the process by electing a democrat.

    So anyways that's basically my broad impression of Trump supporters, they believe they "make Americans lives better" by "making Americans lives worse".
    What does this have to do with anything in your original post? or anything that's been asked of you since? Why are you "pleased" that Trump's attorney-client privilege was violated to satisfy an investigation that's way outside of its intended scope? What happened to your love for the "rule of law"?

    Suddenly sacrosanct pillars of our legal system go out the window because you wanna spike the football at republicans? Awesome. You should be really proud of that opinion.
  11. #2111
    Kicking in Trump's lawyer's door has about as much to do with law and order regarding Trump as I do with martians.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 04-10-2018 at 10:06 PM.
  12. #2112
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    New Hampshire is flyover country?

    Do you not realize that treating middle class, rural, conservative america as "negligible" is what got Trump elected? Propagating that sentiment by referring to it as "flyover country" makes you just as responsible for Trump, as those who voted for him.

    Finally, your entire opening statement is ignorant and foolish. Pay attention!


    Got a quote you want to cite?


    Quote/citation please?


    I'm quite sure Hannity has never uttered the phrase "pussification". Where are you getting this quote?


    The midterm elections are in 6 months. There are dozens of political candidates running for major offices. They all have advertising and information campaigns on the internet. They all have websites that detail their views on all of the issues. Can you please provide a link to which candidate(s) support(s) shanty towns?


    How is that worse than Bernie's plan of chinese debt financed nanny state?


    Right, so shouldn't we spend it on something that makes money, like economic growth? Or would it be better to spend it on something like welfare checks?


    You think that tax cuts were implemented just so some rich guys could keep a little more money? even if that insane naive and intellectually lazy premise were true.....what do you think they do with the money?


    Who else would pay the bonds back? Tax cuts > Economic growth > Jobs > More money > pay debt > repeat. That's how it's supposed to work. But it keeps getting fucked up every time we interrupt the process by electing a democrat.


    What does this have to do with anything in your original post? or anything that's been asked of you since? Why are you "pleased" that Trump's attorney-client privilege was violated to satisfy an investigation that's way outside of its intended scope? What happened to your love for the "rule of law"?

    Suddenly sacrosanct pillars of our legal system go out the window because you wanna spike the football at republicans? Awesome. You should be really proud of that opinion.
    Attorney-Client privilege can't be invoked if it's being used as a means to further the ability of the attorney or client to go commit crimes.

    I'll provide some links to illustrate what I'm saying.

    This is a ranking on education in 2 states in particular, Oklahoma and Louisiana.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...cation/prek-12

    Oklahoma ranks #42 "best" education, and Louisiana ranks #45. Ok, so their kids are getting shitty educations by and large. Having a good education, pretty low priority in a red state right? Oklahoma teachers are on a 2 week walkout because education facilities have gotten so shitty in their state. Because what employer doesn't want dumbass ditch diggers for employees who can't do basic math, reading, or writing. Something like that.

    Now let's look at those 2 states incarceration rates in the country.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...rates?slide=11

    Oklahoma has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the country, and Louisiana is #1.

    Red Republican ran states (I think Jindal fucked up so bad, he was replaced by a Democrat) is quite telling, these 2 red states, would rather incarcerate their citizens, than give them a good education. ranking better in education has been tied to lower incarceration rates.

    This illustrates my point, Republican voters, and politicians, believe you make peoples lives better, by making peoples lives worse.

    I talked to a White Baby Boomer today, and I was taking a drug test for illicit substances for my CDL license I'm going for. And I mentioned, I think the War on Drugs, has RUINED more peoples lives, than it has helped.

    Well she heavily disagreed with me. She said we're not incarcerating ENOUGH Americans. I pointed out, WE'RE THE INCARCERATION CAPITAL OF PLANET EARTH.

    She said you know how you not go to jail? And I replied quickly, make less things illegal. Like Amsterdam's approach to marijuana and prostitution, those are legal, they have a lot less citizens in prison over marijuana and prostitution.

    And I pointed out to her, that the purpose of the War on Drugs, was to stop people from using drugs, NOT incarcerate millions of Americans. In terms of stopping Americans from doing drugs, the War on Drugs has been nothing short of an abject failure. Where it was remarkably successful, was sending millions of Americans to prison, who otherwise would not have gone.

    This all ties into what I've learned from Trump supporters, "You make peoples lives better, by making peoples lives worse".
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-11-2018 at 02:35 AM.
  13. #2113
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy
    you most definitely elected a more corrupt President than Andrew Johnson, Warren G Harding, or Nixon.
    Yet still ended up with the least corrupted of the two options.

    I'm unimpressed with Trump's response to this "chemical attack" in Syria. He must know it's a crock of shit. This is exactly what I hoped he would step away from.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  14. #2114
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post

    I'm unimpressed with Trump's response to this "chemical attack" in Syria. He must know it's a crock of shit. This is exactly what I hoped he would step away from.
    You can't be surprised at his response though given he just hired that war nut Bolton to head the NSA.

    And yeah, funny how a few days after he spontaneously announces a withdrawal from Syria, this happens. Who'da saw that coming?
  15. #2115
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Who'da saw that coming?
    Well, one of the people who saw it coming was this guy on Twitter, who was talking about the poisoned spy...

    My guess? This is part of a bigger script, with another "alleged Russian chemical attack" scheduled to happen in Syria within a few weeks. At which point the US and UK will claim to have justification for an all-out war in the Middle East.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #2116
    You can't be surprised at his response though given he just hired that war nut Bolton to head the NSA.
    I guess I don't really pay attention to who he hires. He's in charge, isn't he? Well, it's not looking like it any more. I thought he was fighting the deep state for control, seems they won, or he was just always a liar.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #2117
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Attorney-Client privilege can't be invoked if it's being used as a means to further the ability of the attorney or client to go commit crimes.
    Paying a porn star to shut up about an affair is not a crime.

    Oklahoma ranks #42 "best" education, and Louisiana ranks #45. Ok, so their kids are getting shitty educations by and large.
    Just because they rank among the bottom in the US means nothing. Someone has to be #50. When compared to world standards, Oklahoma and Louisiana kids are some of the best educated in the world.

    Having a good education, pretty low priority in a red state right?
    WRONG. Where did you get this idea?

    Oklahoma teachers are on a 2 week walkout because education facilities have gotten so shitty in their state. Because what employer doesn't want dumbass ditch diggers for employees who can't do basic math, reading, or writing. Something like that.
    Actually....they just want pay raises. The walkout has nothing to do with kids. If they cared about the kids, the teachers would go back to school and teach them basic math, reading, and writing.

    Now let's look at those 2 states incarceration rates in the country.
    right....cause we're just inventing connections out of thin air now.

    Oklahoma has the 2nd highest incarceration rate in the country, and Louisiana is #1.
    So?

    these 2 red states, would rather incarcerate their citizens, than give them a good education
    Really? Who said that? Are you saying that legislators made a conscious choice to put people in prison rather than educate them? Why would they do that? Money? Do you have any idea how much more expensive it is to incarcerate someone rather than educate them?

    ranking better in education has been tied to lower incarceration rates.
    Source?

    This illustrates my point, Republican voters, and politicians, believe you make peoples lives better, by making peoples lives worse.
    This illustrates that you're a nincompoop.

    I talked to a White Baby Boomer today,
    With no bias in your heart at all right?

    and I was taking a drug test for illicit substances for my CDL license I'm going for.
    Did you pass?

    And I mentioned, I think the War on Drugs, has RUINED more peoples lives, than it has helped.
    I'm pretty sure proclaiming "Yay drugs" while getting a drug test qualifies you as the stupidest person I've encountered in 2018 thus far. Last year I saw a store clerk watch a customer's debit card get declined by two point-of-sale devices and an ATM machine. Then the clerk said "i'll take a check". That store clerk was the winner for 2017. But you are well on yoru way to topping that. BTW, that store clerk was in a state that ranks #2 in education...go figure!

    Well she heavily disagreed with me. She said we're not incarcerating ENOUGH Americans. I pointed out, WE'RE THE INCARCERATION CAPITAL OF PLANET EARTH.
    That's actually not a bad thing. Inequality (and it's related symptom...crime) is a consequence of prosperity.

    She said you know how you not go to jail? And I replied quickly, make less things illegal
    You master debater you!

    Like Amsterdam's approach to marijuana and prostitution, those are legal, they have a lot less citizens in prison over marijuana and prostitution.
    here's a fun experiment. Could you afford to live in Amsterdam?

    And I pointed out to her, that the purpose of the War on Drugs, was to stop people from using drugs, NOT incarcerate millions of Americans.
    Millions?? Where are you getting this number?

    In terms of stopping Americans from doing drugs, the War on Drugs has been nothing short of an abject failure. Where it was remarkably successful, was sending millions of Americans to prison, who otherwise would not have gone.
    There's that number again. I think you would be shocked to learn that TRUTH is that the number of people in federal prison who's worst crime is drug possession/use is less than 300.

    LESS THAN 300!!!!!!!!

    This all ties into what I've learned from Trump supporters,
    How? And btw......why do you keep referring to "Trump supporters". Do you mean me? I'm not a "Trump Supporter". Im an independent thinker who supports reason, fairness, and truth. Sometimes that overlaps with Trump's policies, and sometimes it doesn't.
  18. #2118
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Paying a porn star to shut up about an affair is not a crime.


    Just because they rank among the bottom in the US means nothing. Someone has to be #50. When compared to world standards, Oklahoma and Louisiana kids are some of the best educated in the world.


    WRONG. Where did you get this idea?


    Actually....they just want pay raises. The walkout has nothing to do with kids. If they cared about the kids, the teachers would go back to school and teach them basic math, reading, and writing.


    right....cause we're just inventing connections out of thin air now.


    So?


    Really? Who said that? Are you saying that legislators made a conscious choice to put people in prison rather than educate them? Why would they do that? Money? Do you have any idea how much more expensive it is to incarcerate someone rather than educate them?


    Source?


    This illustrates that you're a nincompoop.


    With no bias in your heart at all right?


    Did you pass?


    I'm pretty sure proclaiming "Yay drugs" while getting a drug test qualifies you as the stupidest person I've encountered in 2018 thus far. Last year I saw a store clerk watch a customer's debit card get declined by two point-of-sale devices and an ATM machine. Then the clerk said "i'll take a check". That store clerk was the winner for 2017. But you are well on yoru way to topping that. BTW, that store clerk was in a state that ranks #2 in education...go figure!


    That's actually not a bad thing. Inequality (and it's related symptom...crime) is a consequence of prosperity.


    You master debater you!


    here's a fun experiment. Could you afford to live in Amsterdam?


    Millions?? Where are you getting this number?


    There's that number again. I think you would be shocked to learn that TRUTH is that the number of people in federal prison who's worst crime is drug possession/use is less than 300.

    LESS THAN 300!!!!!!!!


    How? And btw......why do you keep referring to "Trump supporters". Do you mean me? I'm not a "Trump Supporter". Im an independent thinker who supports reason, fairness, and truth. Sometimes that overlaps with Trump's policies, and sometimes it doesn't.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/e...09dropout.html

    Having sex with a porn star 12 years ago is not a crime. Bank fraud and wire fraud is though. If I have an attorney, that doesn't mean bank fraud and wire fraud laws no longer apply to us.

    "The attorney-client privilege has always included a “crime-fraud exception,”"

    Higher incarceration rates among high school drop outs. Why do you think better education would increase crime, is what I'm curious about? That's where you're gonna demand a source because what I said was too absurd to believe?

    It's nice you're a stickler for truth. Do you demand the same fact checking from far right sources? Like Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones? These pundits are basically the main sources of information for OUR PRESIDENT. It's a well known fact, he watches at minimum a lot of Fox and Friends, and he invited Sean Hannity to Mar-a-lago. He calls Lou Dobbs for advice on public policy. He thanked Alex Jones shortly after being elected. These are Trump's most trusted sources of information basically in regards to media.

    Are they the equivalent to Walter Cronkite in your opinon, I mean do you just buy whatever bullshit they sell you hook line and sinker, because they're the gold standard for "truth" in your opinion? Trump believes they're the gold standard for truth in this country. Remember Pizzagate? How about NASA running child sex rings in colonies on Mars? Came out of Alex Jones mouth, MUST BE TRUE, unlike say, high school dropouts commiting more crime than educated people. Yea that whole high school drop outs committing more crime than PHD holders, that's where your bullshit detector goes off, right?

    As for the drug test, the only thing that matters is if I pass, heroin, crack, coke, weed, I don't do any of that shit. I drink alcohol on the weekends during my off time but that's about it, and a perfectly legal substance at that so long as it's not mixed with driving. What are you implying, she's gonna tamper with my pee? I pee clean, I can ask to be tested at a different facility. You're basically implying she'll commit a crime against me because she doesn't like my views on the War on Drugs.

    As for the Baby Boomer comment, I own a book called "A Generation of Sociopaths", and it draws on many parallels where basically the Baby Boomers just utterly fucked this country over for future generations, to shore themselves up for the here and now, for example, Chinese debt financed tax cuts. Or super high incarceration rates mainly hits younger Americans than Americans in their 60's and 70's, her generation isn't getting fucked by high incarceration rates. It's a good read. Why I had to mention she was a Baby Boomer. In general I don't trust Baby Boomers, I think they make very questionable decisions in regards to public policy, or just as an entire voting bloc.

    " When compared to world standards, Oklahoma and Louisiana kids are some of the best educated in the world."

    I read this sentence as "Compared to 3rd world shitholes, Oklahoma and Lousiana kids are some of the best educated in the 3rd world".

    I have seen this argument used a lot. That because our education standards are better in our shittiest most poverty stricken states than the Democratic Republic of the Congo, therefore we have GREAT education.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-math-science/

    30th in Math and 19th in Science. We have large blocs of citizens who don't even understand basic climate science, believe in angels, and think the world was created 6,000 years ago, humans and dinosaurs were both around at the same time. The idea that the earth is flat is pretty popular in this country too for that matter.

    Edit: As for the War on Drugs, it's been being waged for 50 years almost. So yes, it has incarcerated literally millions of Americans throughout it's entire span.

    http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/drug_prison

    Right now we got about 400,000 Americans in prison on drug offenses. And it's been going on for almost 50 years, that easily could mean millions have been incarcerated under our drug laws.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-11-2018 at 08:25 AM.
  19. #2119
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Having sex with a porn star 12 years ago is not a crime. Bank fraud and wire fraud is though.
    What fraud was committed? By whom?

    Higher incarceration rates among high school drop outs
    DUH! And there are higher drowning deaths among people with swimming pools. What's your point?

    Why do you think better education would increase crime, is what I'm curious about?
    When did I say that?

    It's nice you're a stickler for truth. Do you demand the same fact checking from far right sources?
    Yes

    Like Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones?
    Like I said before, I consume copious amounts of information from tons of different sources. I recently had to google who Alex Jones was. So it's really not fair for you to lump him in the "mainstream". That's just your bias trying to conflate one crazy conspiracy theorist with the entirety of a group.

    These pundits are basically the main sources of information for OUR PRESIDENT. It's a well known fact, he watches at minimum a lot of Fox and Friends, and he invited Sean Hannity to Mar-a-lago. He calls Lou Dobbs for advice on public policy. He thanked Alex Jones shortly after being elected. These are Trump's most trusted sources of information basically in regards to media.
    Who should he trust instead?

    Are they the equivalent to Walter Cronkite in your opinon, I mean do you just buy whatever bullshit they sell you hook line and sinker, because they're the gold standard for "truth" in your opinion?
    Why is this conversation suddenly about me and where I get my news. I've already told you where I get my news. Fuck you.

    Trump believes they're the gold standard for truth in this country. Remember Pizzagate? How about NASA running child sex rings in colonies on Mars? Came out of Alex Jones mouth, MUST BE TRUE, unlike say, high school dropouts commiting more crime than educated people. Yea that whole high school drop outs committing more crime than PHD holders, that's where your bullshit detector goes off, right?
    There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high.

    As for the drug test, the only thing that matters is if I pass,
    Uh no. If you act like you're on drugs, you fail.

    heroin, crack, coke, weed, I don't do any of that shit.
    I find this dubious. But even if its true, I'm sure you're on some kind of psychotropic cocktail. How many xanax have you had today?

    As for the Baby Boomer comment, I own a book called "A Generation of Sociopaths", and it draws on many parallels where basically the Baby Boomers just utterly fucked this country over for future generations, to shore themselves up for the here and now
    So you read a book once, and now you think you know everything about an entire generation of Americans. But anyone who listens to Fox News is a blind idiot.

    for example, Chinese debt financed tax cuts.
    That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant.

    Why I had to mention she was a Baby Boomer. In general I don't trust Baby Boomers, I think they make very questionable decisions in regards to public policy, or just as an entire voting bloc.
    If someone uttered that sentence, but replaced "baby boomer" with "black people" you'd be calling them racist. Why is it wrong to homogenize entire groups of people based on race, but it's ok to do so based on age?

    We have large blocs of citizens who don't even understand basic climate science, believe in angels, and think the world was created 6,000 years ago, humans and dinosaurs were both around at the same time. The idea that the earth is flat is pretty popular in this country too for that matter.
    Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point?

    Edit: As for the War on Drugs, it's been being waged for 50 years almost. So yes, it has incarcerated literally millions of Americans throughout it's entire span.
    Millions of criminals you mean

    Right now we got about 400,000 Americans in prison on drug offenses.
    That's less than 5% of the total prison population. So how are draconian drug laws contributing to mass incarceration? What is putting the other 95% of people in prison?
  20. #2120
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    What fraud was committed? By whom?


    DUH! And there are higher drowning deaths among people with swimming pools. What's your point?


    When did I say that?


    Yes


    Like I said before, I consume copious amounts of information from tons of different sources. I recently had to google who Alex Jones was. So it's really not fair for you to lump him in the "mainstream". That's just your bias trying to conflate one crazy conspiracy theorist with the entirety of a group.


    Who should he trust instead?


    Why is this conversation suddenly about me and where I get my news. I've already told you where I get my news. Fuck you.


    There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high.


    Uh no. If you act like you're on drugs, you fail.


    I find this dubious. But even if its true, I'm sure you're on some kind of psychotropic cocktail. How many xanax have you had today?


    So you read a book once, and now you think you know everything about an entire generation of Americans. But anyone who listens to Fox News is a blind idiot.


    That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant.


    If someone uttered that sentence, but replaced "baby boomer" with "black people" you'd be calling them racist. Why is it wrong to homogenize entire groups of people based on race, but it's ok to do so based on age?


    Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point?


    Millions of criminals you mean


    That's less than 5% of the total prison population. So how are draconian drug laws contributing to mass incarceration? What is putting the other 95% of people in prison?
    I've mostly said my piece, I'll just point out a few things.

    "That's fine if the tax cuts finance growth, and the growth pays the debt. Obama ran up trillion dollar deficits too, except he wasted the money and economic growth was stagnant. " He had $1 trillion deficits, after inheriting the WORST ECONOMIC DOWN TURN IN 80 YEARS.

    See this is what's fucked about Republican economics, during good economic times? Jack the fucking SHIT out of the debt. Don't save for a rainy day. Deficit spend into oblivion, right? That's what Trump's doing right now. But during a harsh economic downturn? That's when you balance the budget. Their economics are basically reverse of what economists advocate for. Basically their goal is to make the economy so bad for the ordinary American, that they suffer a dramatic decrease in standard of living.

    This is a sobering truth I'm going to give you, I understand you prefer comforting lies, over sobering truths. TAX CUTS DO NOT PAY FOR THEMSELVES. They are debt financed, they require large TAX INCREASES and spending cuts, down the road to pay for them.

    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...tax-cuts-real/

    "For Trump’s tax cuts to pay for themselves, the economy would have to grow by $5.5 trillion, or roughly a sustained 4.5 percent, for the next 10 years, according to CRFB.

    That’s a mark that any president is unlikely to hit."

    No, we're NOT going to grow by 4.5% of GDP every year for the next 10 years, because that's what required for the tax cuts to pay for themselves. They're debt financed in essence. That is a fantasy world, a false reality, you believe in, that doesn't exist in the real world. I'm sure it's a very comforting lie to believe, but the sober truth is the economy will not grow fast enough, to pay for these tax cuts.

    ""I am not aware of any credible evidence (in the U.S.) over the last several decades of a broad-based tax cut paying for itself," said Alan Auerbach, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley. "I don't think this is at all controversial among actual economists."

    Kleinbard was similarly emphatic: "There is no time in modern history where tax cuts could be said to pay for themselves.""

    "There's no way that I believe the assertion in your next paragraph about not using drugs. The above could only be written by someone high."

    LOL, that wasn't ME who made those stories. That's ALEX JONES! One of Trump's MOST TRUSTED media personalities!

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/nasa-d...colony-on-mars

    NASA had to publicly announce, They're NOT running child sex rings on Mars because of this.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pizzagate-conspiracy/

    "A detailed conspiracy theory known as "Pizzagate" holds that a pedophile ring is operating out of a Clinton-linked pizzeria called Comet Ping Pong."

    You can read about that one here, even had a guy with an AR15 showed up, shot his weapon, and demanded that Comet Ping Pong show where they were hiding the kids in this supposed pedophile ring at the pizza place. He's serving prison time over that.

    "Freedom of religion allows for all kinds of crazy theories. What's your point? "

    My point is if your citizens basically are brainwashed, and live in a false reality, that does not bode well for this country's future going forward. We need to do a better job at making sure people can distinguish between false bullshit, and actual facts.

    You're guilty of this too.

    You seem to believe that Trump's tax cuts will result in the 4.5% GDP growth, for ALL of the NEXT 10 YEARS that would be required for the cuts to pay for themselves. You're living in a false reality on that issue alone, we are NOT going to get 4.5% of GDP growth for all of the next 10 years, just because Trump made some changes to to the tax code. It's NOT going to happen.

    "Millions of criminals you mean".

    If you make lots of things illegal, you get lots of criminals. Make less things illegal, and you get less criminals. What I did in Amsterdam, I broke at least 5 American laws by my estimate, would have made for years in prison, registering as a sex offender (I hired a couple lady friend, and had to pull my junk at one point, and that easily requires for lewd and lascivious behavior in our legal code), and $10's of thousands of dollars in legal fees. I broke ZERO laws under the legal code in Amsterdam, and all my acts were victimless and nonviolent for that matter.

    It seems you're basically arguing that you take pride in the US having a higher incarceration rate per capita, than the next 194 countries. You don't see it as a problem that we incarcerate more of our citizenry than any of the other 194 countries. And I do find it to be a problem. And that's our disagreement.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-11-2018 at 02:54 PM.
  21. #2121
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    I've mostly said my piece, I'll just point out a few things.
    Cherry picking which things you want to point out doesn't make your point any stronger.

    He had $1 trillion deficits, after inheriting the WORST ECONOMIC DOWN TURN IN 80 YEARS.
    First of all, I'm not convinced that Obama didn't at least partly cause that economic down turn. We saw what the stock market did when Trump got elected. Why wouldn't you expect the inverse once it became clear that McCain had no chance?? And Trump inherited a leaky garbage bag full of foreign policy disasters. Our deficit spending would be lower if we didn't have to gear-up for military showdowns with rogue regimes in the middle east and the Korean peninsula.

    "For Trump’s tax cuts to pay for themselves, the economy would have to grow by $5.5 trillion, or roughly a sustained 4.5 percent, for the next 10 years, according to CRFB.
    Cherry picked figures. The same article you linked said that the growth target could be as low as $3 Billion, which would only require half as much growth. Furthermore, it's wholly retarded to look at the issue in a vacuum. Only a damned fool would imagine greedy politicians racking up national debt just to slash taxes and essentially give themselves raises. That's the kind of argument a 9 year old would make.

    Think harder.

    Is it maybe just maybe possible that some of these politicians support tax cuts as part of a multi-planked economic platform that also includes spending cuts? Have Trump and the Repubs not signaled that the next major legislative project is entitlement reform?? Maybe try getting your news from outside your liberal echo chamber.

    My point is if your citizens basically are brainwashed, and live in a false reality, that does not bode well for this country's future going forward. We need to do a better job at making sure people can distinguish between false bullshit, and actual facts.
    So you're saying is that you only want freedom of speech to apply to those voices that fit your definition of "true", and anyone speaking something you deem to be "false bullshit" needs to be silenced? Do I have that right?

    If you make lots of things illegal, you get lots of criminals. Make less things illegal, and you get less criminals.
    I don't even get what your point is here. We've already been over the numbers. Drugs are responsible for 5% of the prison population. If all you want is legal drugs, then "mass incarceration" is a hopelessly poor argument. If your problem is with mass incarceration itself, then what else would you make legal, and by how much would it reduce the prison population.

    I hired a couple lady friend, and had to pull my junk at one point, and that easily requires for lewd and lascivious behavior in our legal code
    You "had to"? Sorry bud, I'd rather live in a country where I can walk down the street and see people who respect modesty. I don't have to risk getting a glance at your junk. And if that means I have to pay a little bit more in taxes to put a flasher in prison...so be it. Money well spent.

    It seems you're basically arguing that you take pride in the US having a higher incarceration rate per capita, than the next 194 countries. You don't see it as a problem that we incarcerate more of our citizenry than any of the other 194 countries. And I do find it to be a problem. And that's our disagreement.
    I mentioned nothing of pride. Nor do I see incarceration as a problem. I've managed to stay out of prison, and it wasn't that hard. I don't feel like government laws are stifling my behavior at all. If you do, it's because you're a psycho who can't control himself and probably should be locked up.

    However, if I were to stipulate that it was a bonefide goal to reduce the prison population, I think the absolute LAST potential solution I would consider is legalizing drugs and prostitution.
  22. #2122
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What do you think of things along this line: you're are not a confident person. You think you are not attractive, are not smart, and are weak. And you want to change that. So, one of the things you do is positive affirmation. You tell yourself that you are a confident person. That you are handsome and smart and strong. In doing so, you begin to becoming more of the person you tell yourself you are, even if you are not or do not believe it (yet).
    I think we're getting a bit off topic, but the quick answer is that I think this is distinct from lying in some meaningful ways. Positive affirmation is mainly concerned with the subjective and/or future states of being. Because it functions as a feedback loop, once you enter it, you aren't really lying. I know this feels like a loophole, but I think the phenomenon, while similar to dishonestly is, as I said, meaningfully distinct.
  23. #2123
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well, one of the people who saw it coming was this guy on Twitter, who was talking about the poisoned spy...
    If you're gonna tinfoil hat, then fucking tinfoil hat.

    Your twitter friend could be a Russian agent, planting the seeds of chaos.
  24. #2124
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    If you're gonna tinfoil hat, then fucking tinfoil hat.

    Your twitter friend could be a Russian agent, planting the seeds of chaos.
    I don't think the Russian agent's story is that outlandish. Doesn't mean he isn't a Russian agent though.

    What bemuses me most is how quick Ong is to assume the worst about his own government while simultaneously having such a hard time imagining the worst about any of its enemies.
  25. #2125
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Cherry picking which things you want to point out doesn't make your point any stronger.


    First of all, I'm not convinced that Obama didn't at least partly cause that economic down turn. We saw what the stock market did when Trump got elected. Why wouldn't you expect the inverse once it became clear that McCain had no chance?? And Trump inherited a leaky garbage bag full of foreign policy disasters. Our deficit spending would be lower if we didn't have to gear-up for military showdowns with rogue regimes in the middle east and the Korean peninsula.


    Cherry picked figures. The same article you linked said that the growth target could be as low as $3 Billion, which would only require half as much growth. Furthermore, it's wholly retarded to look at the issue in a vacuum. Only a damned fool would imagine greedy politicians racking up national debt just to slash taxes and essentially give themselves raises. That's the kind of argument a 9 year old would make.

    Think harder.

    Is it maybe just maybe possible that some of these politicians support tax cuts as part of a multi-planked economic platform that also includes spending cuts? Have Trump and the Repubs not signaled that the next major legislative project is entitlement reform?? Maybe try getting your news from outside your liberal echo chamber.


    So you're saying is that you only want freedom of speech to apply to those voices that fit your definition of "true", and anyone speaking something you deem to be "false bullshit" needs to be silenced? Do I have that right?


    I don't even get what your point is here. We've already been over the numbers. Drugs are responsible for 5% of the prison population. If all you want is legal drugs, then "mass incarceration" is a hopelessly poor argument. If your problem is with mass incarceration itself, then what else would you make legal, and by how much would it reduce the prison population.


    You "had to"? Sorry bud, I'd rather live in a country where I can walk down the street and see people who respect modesty. I don't have to risk getting a glance at your junk. And if that means I have to pay a little bit more in taxes to put a flasher in prison...so be it. Money well spent.


    I mentioned nothing of pride. Nor do I see incarceration as a problem. I've managed to stay out of prison, and it wasn't that hard. I don't feel like government laws are stifling my behavior at all. If you do, it's because you're a psycho who can't control himself and probably should be locked up.

    However, if I were to stipulate that it was a bonefide goal to reduce the prison population, I think the absolute LAST potential solution I would consider is legalizing drugs and prostitution.
    Obama inherited that massive recession from Bush. Debating that basic fact is you living in a false reality. You've probably been brainwashed by far right media to not even be able to remember exactly when the recession started 10 years ago.

    Our 3 worst Depressions/Recessions in the last 80 years all occurred under Republican Presidents, The Great Depression, the Great Recession, and The Savings and Loan's Crisis. Democratic Presidents have been known to create more jobs while in office.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ts-top-republ/

    "Since 1961 … our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42 (million)." Democrats have created almost double the jobs of Republican Presidents between 1961-2012 at the time of that statement.

    I think the main problem with your ideas, they sound good, you can definitely sell them to people, but they don't fuckin' work. I want ideas that work, I don't want ideas that don't work.

    "We saw what the stock market did when Trump got elected. " I can't say for you, but my family became millionaires under Obama. When he took office, March of 09', the DOW was 6,800 points, when he left office it was around 19,000 points. increased the stock market by 150% in 8 years, I don't know how you can talk shit on him for that. I apologize if you missed out on that gravy train with biscuit wheels unlike my family.

    Again, we're debating basic facts, that you act like you're entirely unaware of. You live in a false reality that doesn't exist in the real world.

    Supply-Side Economics is really just Horse and Sparrow Theory 2.0. Horse and Sparrow theory, I could go over it, but the main goal of it was to give a fuck ton of money to already super wealthy robber barons of 1890's, and fuck over the working class.

    "Is it maybe just maybe possible that some of these politicians support tax cuts as part of a multi-planked economic platform that also includes spending cuts?"

    Where are the big spending cuts after the tax cuts? We just passed an omnibus spending bill that INCREASED federal spending, particularly on the military industrial complex. Right now the tax cuts are debt financed. There was no major spending cuts passed, to pay for the tax cuts.

    "So you're saying is that you only want freedom of speech to apply to those voices that fit your definition of "true", and anyone speaking something you deem to be "false bullshit" needs to be silenced? " I'm saying that if you can not accept basic empirical facts, you should not belong in the conversation of setting public policy. Public policy, should be reality and fact based. Not "truthiness". Truthiness is the idea of believing in something because it "feels true" to you even if it's NOT true, you go with your gut not your brain, you act without considering the consequences.

    GWB thought WMD's were in Iraq, because "it felt true". The problem was, it WASN'T true. That's a pretty big problem when considering to invade a foreign country, and is ultimately what lead to the largest foreign policy disaster since at minimum Vietnam. And I see a lot of my fellow Americans, don't live in reality, they believe in things because "it feels like it SHOULD be true" aka, "Feelz before realz".

    "I don't even get what your point is here. We've already been over the numbers. Drugs are responsible for 5% of the prison population." You did not read my link.

    http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/drug_prison

    You're close. It's not "5%" though, it's closer to "50%" on the federal level, so you're off by about 900% on what percentage of adults are in prison over drug offenses on at minimum the federal level.

    "Forty-seven percent (81,900) of sentenced federal prisoners on September 30, 2016 (the most recent date for which federal offense data are available) were serving time for a drug offense".


    "More than half (56% or 6,300) of female federal prisoners were serving sentences for a drug offense"

    State, you're closer, but it's still a 200%difference in discrepancy from your stated 5%.

    "Among sentenced prisoners under the jurisdiction of state correctional authorities on December 31, 2015, 15% (197,200 prisoners) had been convicted of a drug offense as their most serious crime."

    I'm sure also that arrests and jail time over simple possession charges in states such as Colorado, Washington, and Oregon have gone down a lot since they legalized it. You legalize a substance, and then people stop getting arrested over said substance. This should be common sense, but apparently it is not.

    "You "had to"? Sorry bud, I'd rather live in a country where I can walk down the street and see people who respect modesty. I don't have to risk getting a glance at your junk. And if that means I have to pay a little bit more in taxes to put a flasher in prison...so be it. Money well spent."

    For the victimless nonviolent crime of hiring a sex worker in America, the female cops do sting operations. And because you do the preliminary things required for sex, that can get you charged with lewd lascivious behavior even if it's entirely behind closed doors. Behind closed doors, where prostitution is heavily regulated and safe for both the prostitute, and the customer, you do not get charged with a sex crime in Amsterdam. It basically makes everyone better off, the customer, the sex worker, even society. They've found legalized prostitution has lead to lower rates of sexual assault, and rape. The prostitute and the customer are not better off when you send them to jail. Maybe you've never been to jail, I have but it was on a tour as part of the League of Women Voters. It's not a happy place.

    If you want to make peoples live better, don't make peoples lives worse. Jail and prison should be a LAST resort, not a first resort.

    A country without bordellos is like a house without bathrooms.- Marlen Dietrich

    In regards to jail and incarceration, you would prefer to live in this man's country from Parks and Recreation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 04-12-2018 at 02:14 AM.
  26. #2126
    Learn how to fucking use quotes dude!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Obama inherited that massive recession from Bush. Debating that basic fact is you living in a false reality.
    Strong language. But you can't prove any of that. It's at least equally plausible that the market shit its pants when it realized that an inexperienced hyper-progressive was going to take over. We know the opposite to be true. The market got a gigantic boner when it realized that a very stable genius was going to take over.

    You've probably been brainwashed by far right media to not even be able to remember exactly when the recession started 10 years ago.
    Sounds like something that a brainwashed person would say.

    Our 3 worst Depressions/Recessions in the last 80 years all occurred under Republican Presidents, The Great Depression, the Great Recession, and The Savings and Loan's Crisis. Democratic Presidents have been known to create more jobs while in office.
    Moving the goal post. The boom years under Clinton were just an after-effect of Reagan-omics.

    I think the main problem with your ideas, they sound good, you can definitely sell them to people, but they don't fuckin' work. I want ideas that work, I don't want ideas that don't work.
    What ideas have I stated that don't work? What ideas have you stated that DO work?

    I can't say for you, but my family became millionaires under Obama.
    And look at you now. Titan of industry!

    When he took office, March of 09', the DOW was 6,800 points,
    Hmmm, I wonder if that means the market was happy to see him?

    when he left office it was around 19,000 points.
    Hmmm, I wonder if that means the market was sorry to see him go?

    increased the stock market by 150% in 8 years, I don't know how you can talk shit on him for that.
    Cuz he should have brought it up 500%

    Again, we're debating basic facts, that you act like you're entirely unaware of. You live in a false reality that doesn't exist in the real world.
    Demagogue rhetoric. Do you have anything of substance to say other than this caveman chant of "ooga booga, dems nice, ook ook, republicans yuck"

    Where are the big spending cuts after the tax cuts?
    I've already answered this.

    We just passed an omnibus spending bill that INCREASED federal spending
    And who was happy about that???

    particularly on the military industrial complex.
    Ooooh big scary words!! We're going to war dude!!

    I'm saying that if you can not accept basic empirical facts, you should not belong in the conversation of setting public policy.
    So your'e saying creationists can't hold elected office? Is that it?

    GWB thought WMD's were in Iraq, because "it felt true".
    Source?

    the largest foreign policy disaster ....
    I'm really not going to debate something that's almost 20 years old with you. But the world is better without Saddam Hussein. Period.

    You're close. It's not "5%" though,
    YOU cited a number of 400,000. That would be less than 5% of the prison population. If you've since found different figures, that's your problem. Taunting me about the statistical inaccuracies of numbers that YOU cited makes you fucking retarded.

    Your new figures count anyone with drug offenses. But among that population are people with a drug charge in conjunction with something else. Like they had some crack on them while robbing a liquor store. Or they were selling drugs while carrying an illegal gun.

    So go back to your calculator poindexter and tell us how many people are in prison whose worst crime is drug possession or use.

    "Among sentenced prisoners under the jurisdiction of state correctional authorities on December 31, 2015, 15% (197,200 prisoners) had been convicted of a drug offense as their most serious crime."
    You've made a mistake. 197,000 prisoners is no where near 15% of the prison population. And if it is, that means there are something like 1.2 million prisoners in total. Which is less than 1% of the population. Try again Mr. Math.

    I'm sure also that arrests and jail time over simple possession charges in states such as Colorado, Washington, and Oregon have gone down a lot since they legalized it. You legalize a substance, and then people stop getting arrested over said substance. This should be common sense, but apparently it is not.
    Marijuana is legal or decriminalized in almost all the states now. And will probably be in the rest within the next decade. Legalizing pot is not really a debate I want to have with you. I don't think it's a great thing, but it's happening, so be it. As for other substances, no. Society would de-stabilize pretty fucking quickly if you could score H a the Seven-Eleven.

    A better way to handle it is to identify the source of the heroin and then erect a gigantic 30 foot wall in between you and that source. This should be common sense. But apparently, it is not.

    For the victimless nonviolent crime of hiring a sex worker
    You really think it's a victimless crime?????

    You think Amsterdam is just full of hard-working women possessed with entrepreneurial spirit? You think they take the money and deposit in their savings account so they can go to college and buy a house?

    She probably told you that you were a good fuck. That doesn't make it true.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 04-12-2018 at 09:19 AM.
  27. #2127
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    If you're gonna tinfoil hat, then fucking tinfoil hat.

    Your twitter friend could be a Russian agent, planting the seeds of chaos.
    Sure it could be. Just like the perfectly English statement released by Yuria Skirpal could actually have been writeen by her.

    But, to borrow a government phrase... balance of probabilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  28. #2128
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    What bemuses me most is how quick Ong is to assume the worst about his own government while simultaneously having such a hard time imagining the worst about any of its enemies.
    This is coming from someone who forgets that I have said multiple times that I don't trust the Russian government.

    Of course it could be them. But it's not very likely, based on what I've been reading both in the main stream and alt media.

    And if it is them, it's significantly less serious than if we did it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  29. #2129
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  30. #2130
    The problem isn't that Trump is telegraphing his intentions when he previously criticised Obama for the same thing. The problem is he has no clear intentions to begin with and is just spouting off like a nutjob.
  31. #2131
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    he has no clear intentions to begin with
    He makes his core beliefs well known and doesn't telegraph his moves.
  32. #2132
    oskar's Avatar
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  33. #2133
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Mr. Trump’s decision to throw out the Trans-Pacific Partnership and his pledge to tear up the North American Free Trade Agreement were bedrock promises of his populist campaign, which centered heavily on unfair trade practices that he said had robbed American manufacturers and workers.
    #MAGA
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  34. #2134
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    He makes his core beliefs well known and doesn't telegraph his moves.
    Handwaving.
  35. #2135
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Handwaving.
    How so?
  36. #2136
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Jack-high straight flush motherfucker
    Tonight:

    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  37. #2137
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    This morning

    https://splinternews.com/fox-friends...ria-1825236104

    Fox & Friends Is JUST WONDERING if Trump Bombing Syria Would Distract From James Comey
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  38. #2138
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Handwaving.
    He says, waving his hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  39. #2139
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    grotesque demagoguery
  40. #2140
    Superpower: The Ability To Consider Events Across Their Entire Set Of Space And Time And Without Emotion
  41. #2141
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    How so?
    You said something that appears to say something but really says nothing. At best you are saying that Trump is a deck of Taro cards and his core audience alone has the ability to truly read them. It's an unsupportable claim and only serves as a diversion from critique.
  42. #2142
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    He says, waving his hand.
    Fire, meet Fire.
  43. #2143
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Fire, meet Fire.
    At the risk of going off topic (whatever the topic is), this was one of those phrases that always amused me as a kid... fight fire with fire... I'm thinking isn't water or carbon dioxide a better weapon against fire? Fighting it with fire just makes a bigger fire.

    Also, the early bird catches the worm. Well sure, that means the early worm gets eaten for breakfast. Best stay in bed.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  44. #2144
    Ha, the worm one is good.

    As for fire with fire, I think the phrase is implying that the use of fire in warfare is less than honorable, but if the other side uses it against you, you respond in kind. Not 100% on that, but, yeah, I think it's abbreviating "when you opponents fights with fire, you should fight with fire in response."
  45. #2145
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    You said something that appears to say something but really says nothing. At best you are saying that Trump is a deck of Taro cards and his core audience alone has the ability to truly read them. It's an unsupportable claim and only serves as a diversion from critique.
    Millions of people understand his core beliefs quite well. Other millions don't pay attention to that which shows his core beliefs, instead paying attention to his surface level movement.
  46. #2146
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    This is theology.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  47. #2147
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    This is theology.
    What is?
  48. #2148
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...343321600?s=09

    Given his track record on tweeting "questions" that a few months later end up revealing as things he already knew the answer to, looks like we're in for some very enlightening shit.
  49. #2149
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What is?

    I can't believe you're not seeing the ridiculousness of your comment, unless, and that might be the caveat, you also don't see the ridiculousness of theology.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  50. #2150
    What do you think I meant?
  51. #2151
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    I don't think that you know what you meant. That's the point.
    Only actions count. Why would I, or anyone, care what Trumps "core believes" are? He can believe he's a bunny rabbit for all I care. Makes no difference unless he acts on it.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  52. #2152
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Only actions count.
    Absolutely. Those who pay attention to his actions mostly make up his supporters, which is why many know what he believes. Those who pay attention to his words instead of actions mostly make up his detractors, and they understand very little about him because of it.
  53. #2153
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    This is theology.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  54. #2154
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Absolutely. Those who pay attention to his actions mostly make up his supporters, which is why many know what he believes. Those who pay attention to his words instead of actions mostly make up his detractors, and they understand very little about him because of it.
    TIL Trump is (More) Capitalist Joel Osteen
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  55. #2155
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    This is theology.

    More accurately, it's a cult of personality. Basically the same thing, except the deities are living entities and responsible for their own techniques.

    I'd tell wuf to realize this and get out of it while he can, but this may be a truly hard thing to do.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

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  56. #2156
    Be sure to note that you guys are telling me I believe things that I do not.
  57. #2157
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    It's frustrating to argue against. Do I really have to point out that if you put "which is why" in the middle of your sentence, the subsets before and after should be connected in some way?

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Absolutely. Those who pay attention to his actions mostly make up his supporters, which is why many know what he believes. Those who pay attention to his words instead of actions mostly make up his detractors, and they understand very little about him because of it.
    Two sentences. Two non sequitur's.
    Even if it made any sense, why... why would you even waste your brain on thinking about that. This is of no substance any way you turn it. This is pure religion.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  58. #2158
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Millions of people understand his core beliefs quite well.
    this means nothing. This is a non-statement.
    Other millions don't pay attention to that which shows his core beliefs, instead paying attention to his surface level movement.
    more of nothing
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  59. #2159
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    I'm not telling you that you believe things, I'm telling you that you're stumbling around in a fog, grasping at air.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  60. #2160
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Be sure to note that you guys are telling me I believe things that I do not.
    Ok ok

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Millions of people understand his core beliefs quite well. Other millions don't pay attention to that which shows his core beliefs, instead paying attention to his surface level movement.
    So do you or do you not believe in Trump's core beliefs, which as of right now are all over the place and changing every day which ends in a "y"?

    The problem with Trump's core beliefs is his beliefs are whatever you want to believe they are. He is literally all over the place.

    He does one thing and then his supporters will claim it is what he wanted to do all along, and then does the exact opposite thing, and then his supporters will still claim it is what he wanted to do all along. It's comical really when you look at it from a distance, but then becomes saddening and tragic once you realize he also has nuke codes AND takes orders, or at least suggestions on domestic and foreign policies which he executes with remarkable consistency, from a TV show. A fucking TV show.

    Does he not have anything better to do than watch a TV show?

    Take the TPP U-turn for example

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-deal-reversal
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  61. #2161
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    I disagreed with you using a meaningless and unprovable axiom to reach an unrelated, irrelevant conclusion. I understand perfectly well why I disagree with that, as should you.

    edit: post deleted, but I'll leave the reply so I can copy and paste it when it becomes relevant again in a day or two.
    Last edited by oskar; 04-15-2018 at 03:46 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  62. #2162
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    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  63. #2163
    ^ Cliffs:

    When the Deep State wants missile strikes, they're deathmongers. When Trump does it, he's a hero.
  64. #2164
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  65. #2165
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    ^ Cliffs:

    When the Deep State wants missile strikes, they're deathmongers. When Trump does it, he's a hero.
    It's different people with different opinions, not the same people flipping about.
  66. #2166
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I disagreed with you using a meaningless and unprovable axiom to reach an unrelated, irrelevant conclusion. I understand perfectly well why I disagree with that, as should you.

    edit: post deleted, but I'll leave the reply so I can copy and paste it when it becomes relevant again in a day or two.
    Here's what happened:

    I said this:

    He makes his core beliefs well known and doesn't telegraph his moves.
    It is a key observation that many people have made in the past, yet it is an observation that is rarely accepted among those who do not like Trump. It is something that I have personally been consistent on, so I have at least an n=1 of behaving like his core beliefs and move telegraphs are distinct and understood by me.

    Then I was told I was handwaving

    Then I responded by pointing out that tons of people see it the way I do.

    Then I was told I was saying something meaningless and being theological.

    Then I was told that I don't even know what I meant (I do).

    And then more of the above, but I'll stop here


    The gap in this conversation is that it's not even a conversation. I'm being told what I think, that I don't know what I think, that my points are not points, etc..
  67. #2167
    He makes his core beliefs well known and doesn't telegraph his moves.
    I'll expound on why I say this:

    He holds a lot of different surface level positions for purpose of negotiation, yet when things are all said and done, the results align with base beliefs that have been coherent from the beginning.
  68. #2168
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    It's different people with different opinions, not the same people flipping about.
    They might as well be the same people. A bunch of them are looking to blame anyone but Trump for everything. Another bunch are giving Trump credit for everything.
  69. #2169
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    They might as well be the same people. A bunch of them are looking to blame anyone but Trump for everything. Another bunch are giving Trump credit for everything.
    Those certainly happen, and they're especially vocal when there is something new that touches their emotions (like Syria).
  70. #2170
    The_Donald definitely has every bit of problems as other echo chambers
  71. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The_Donald definitely has every bit of problems as other echo chambers
    I can still vividly remember you claiming to having gone to T_D BECAUSE it was not an echo chamber

    I am glad to see some measurable progress there
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  72. #2172
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    I can still vividly remember you claiming to having gone to T_D BECAUSE it was not an echo chamber

    I am glad to see some measurable progress there
    I 100% assure you that I never said that. I called T_D an echo chamber, and the context was that it is important to consume echo chambers outside that which one agrees with.
  73. #2173
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I called T_D an echo chamber, and the context was that it is important to consume echo chambers outside that which one agrees with.
    I do remember this, to your credit.
  74. #2174
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I 100% assure you that I never said that. I called T_D an echo chamber, and the context was that it is important to consume echo chambers outside that which one agrees with.
    Then it may have been a mandela effect on my part
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    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
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  75. #2175
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Millions of people understand his core beliefs quite well. Other millions don't pay attention to that which shows his core beliefs, instead paying attention to his surface level movement.
    OK, I'll bite.

    Please list his core beliefs, as you understand them.

    Otherwise, you're free to revise as you go, and say, "This is in line with his core beliefs." no matter what he does.
    Leaving that pivotal part of your statement ambiguous and open to interpretation is what makes the statement theological in nature.
    Pin that down to a specific definition, not open to interpretation and you've moved solidly away from the ambiguity of your original statement.

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