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*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

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  1. #7951
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Fun fact - this is a conspiracy theory.
    Yeah, that's why it's so insidious-- I cant remember the details to find a source, but from what I can remember, people are generally only capable of thinking a few levels deep without mapping things out on paper. Which makes sense, it becomes increasingly hard to keep track of the motivations of someone who is conspiring to create conspiracy theories to safeguard their conspiracies.

    Further, it leads to endless rabbit holes of thought, like "maybe it's western intelligence agencies that have floated the conspiracy theory that the Russians have been fabricating conspiracy theories to give cover to their conspiracies, to give cover to their (western agency's) conspiracies." Pretty much an infinite regress that ends in "nothing is true and everything is possible."
  2. #7952
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Some may regard it as one, but it isn't. There's extensive information about Russian disinformation campaigns going back to the 80s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_INFEKTION
    https://secondaryinfektion.org/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21518F
    https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/...rt_Volume2.pdf

    I know you're not gonna read any of those, but the more links I have, the more gravitas my argument has. That's another fact.
    I mean, look, as I said, I think the most obvious distinction is to use "conspiracy theory" to refer to something that isn't yet proven or widely accepted and "conspiracy" for those that have been, but I think it's pretty clear that you're arguing against a meaning that Ong did not intend.

    And again, this is why it's so insidious, because I think the way Ong is using "conspiracy theory" here might be novel to this conversation-- the phrase can describe a conspiracy that at a glances looks outlandish, far fetched, implicative of shadowy organizations pulling the strings, etc. As Ong pointed out, proven conspiracies often are lumped in with unproven conspiracies, making the set, "conspiracy theories," for aesthetic reasons, or by conspiracy theorists to bolster their unproven claims.

    This honestly is a tough subject to talk about for these reasons, and so if we are going to it's pretty important to take MMM's advice and try your best to take the meaning intended by the speaker, and clarify when unsure.
  3. #7953
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Yeah, that's why it's so insidious-- I cant remember the details to find a source, but from what I can remember, people are generally only capable of thinking a few levels deep without mapping things out on paper. Which makes sense, it becomes increasingly hard to keep track of the motivations of someone who is conspiring to create conspiracy theories to safeguard their conspiracies.

    Further, it leads to endless rabbit holes of thought, like "maybe it's western intelligence agencies that have floated the conspiracy theory that the Russians have been fabricating conspiracy theories to give cover to their conspiracies, to give cover to their (western agency's) conspiracies." Pretty much an infinite regress that ends in "nothing is true and everything is possible."
    I was never really on board with the whole Russia thing. There was always some doubt, until that Novichok incident in England. That was so obviously (to me at least) a crock of shit that I could only conclude that the whole Russiaphobia thing was propaganda on our part.

    I'm also in no doubt that Russia are assholes, they've got their agenda too. In fact I kinda lean towards them being allies, and the whole "enemy" thing is to present to the public a strong reason for continued and massive military investment. We don't need nuclear weapons, nobody is ever going to use them. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if our nuclear arsenals are massively overstated, with the funding ending up elsewhere. We all know corruption happens, I think it's naive to think it's not happening on a truly massive scale.

    So "conspiracy theory" to me doesn't mean crazy. As for the election, I do think it is a stretch to imagine they can pull off such a massive fraud without anyone being able to prove it. But it's not flat earth nonsense. It's a stretch, but not out of the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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