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*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

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  1. #7426
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Technically, he didn't, though.

    He said if you vote by mail, you should still go to your polling location and verify that your vote was tabulated. If it was not tabulated, then he said you should vote in person at the polling station.

    He did not technically encourage anyone to vote twice, only to check if their vote was counted and if not, to vote in a way that will be counted.
    Stop researching what he actually said and just read headlines, dammit.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #7427
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Stop researching what he actually said and just read headlines, dammit.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  3. #7428
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Something something, stop reading the news, something something headlines lol I'm a troll not racist but...
    .


    According to reports, a federal fugitive task force moved in to make an arrest and killed Reinoehl when serving the warrant in Lacy Washington, after an encounter with Reinoehl.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  4. #7429
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Stop researching what he actually said and just read headlines, dammit.
    What if I did both and still came to the same conclusion? Should I wait for Mojo to come give me the facts?



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54011022

    "Let them send it in and let them go vote," he told North Carolina broadcaster WECT-TV on Wednesday.

    "And if the system is as good as they say it is then obviously they won't be able to vote (in person)."

    Sure sounds like he's telling people to try to vote twice to me.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  5. #7430
    I mean obviously his lawyer would say he only told people to try to vote in person, so there's that.

    p.s. federal fugitive task force is run by US gov't. The word 'federal' is the hint there.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  6. #7431
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well he appears to have fled to another state, so there's that to take into account. It must be pointed out though, both Oregon (where the crime happened) and Washington (where he was shot) are Dem states. USA is not like most countries when it comes to law and order, they have different forces for each state, enforcing different laws. I don't know how much the police are affected by state politics, but if there's any influence, it will likely be a left lean in these two states. So the idea the police are executing a left-wing guy for shooting a right winger seems a little far fetched. A rogue cop, maybe, but unlikely to be a planned assassination.

    Also, he's white, so he doesn't matter.
    I don't know how you could say he fled when he gave an interview confessing to the killing. He also apparently has kids and was fundraising for his legal defense. I've already said this dude comes across as paranoid, and there's no clear video of the incident. I'm not coming out in his defense, but the circumstances of his death are highly suspicious.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  7. #7432
    I don't know how you could say he fled when he gave an interview confessing to the killing.
    Well I'd assume he probably fled not from law enforcement, but from the lynch mob. But he might also have been hoping to evade the police, at least for some time, and it's definitely not out of the question that when confronted by police, he panicked.

    I agree with you that his death is suspicious, but I can't imagine the police were ordered to execute him. If they were, then we might as well just assume the cops are being ordered to kill black people for the sole reason of escalating racial tensions.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #7433
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Does it require an order when the precedent is clear?

    If you kill a black person, nothing will happen to you. You keep your job, you don't go to jail, your family is fine.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  9. #7434
    I had friends who were arrested for vandalism. It was in the winter after a heavy snow. The cops were pissed they had to walk through the snow, so they packed snow into my handcuffed friends' clothes, then opened the windows for the ride to transport them to the station. No one ordered them to do this. They are people in a position of power and have very few effective checks on any vindictive urges they may have.

    Reinoehl killed a pro-police demonstrator and was vocally anti-police. No one had to order anything. It's possible there weren't even lateral discussions among the grunts. Chris Dorner was never going to be taken in alive, and neither was Reinoehl, and that's irrespective of whether or not they intended to surrender peacefully. Of course it's possible that either or both of them resisted with a weapon, but, due to the cops' disposition, the default outcome of these guys being cornered is their death.
  10. #7435
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  11. #7436
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Behold the master of branding:

    Wow, are those 5" heels?
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  12. #7437
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  13. #7438
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    I believe the story so far is that it was a privately owned former police car that some maga guy bought at an auction. However NYPD knows who it is and they did not press any charges and are "still investigating" whether or not a crime has been committed. So interesting precedent: running a red light over a crowd of people in NYC - no longer a crime!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  14. #7439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Wow, are those 5" heels?
    It's the Vic Berger edit of this:



    Didn't need that much work!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  15. #7440
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    Neither does this:

    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  16. #7441
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    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  17. #7442
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    That's a parody, isn't it?
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  18. #7443
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    Getting hard to tell, isn't it?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  19. #7444
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    That's a parody, isn't it?

    It reminds me of this.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  20. #7445
    My favourite part of the MAGA video was "If I'm not wearing a mask, I'm sure as hell not going to wear one of those life preserver things they kept throwing at me." lol
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  21. #7446
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    In fact, according to Nate Dinguss, Reinoehl was clutching a cellphone and eating a gummy worm as he walked to his car outside an apartment complex in Lacey, Wash. That’s when officers opened fire without first announcing themselves or trying to arrest him, Dinguss, a 39-year-old who lives in the apartment complex, said in a statement shared with The Washington Post.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...mments-wrapper

    Currently the department is investigating itself. Unless there is pressure to reassign that investigation that's probably where it ends.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  22. #7447
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    Who is Nate Dinguss and why hasn't he sued for a real name?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  23. #7448
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    Just an eye witness who lives in the same apartment complex. No idea why they felt the need to put his name up because he almost certainly will get targeted for this... and not just because his name is stupid.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  24. #7449
    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...85206787444747

    I love how the radical libs conveniently forget that Churchill famously calmed his people down by tellling them the Blitz was a hoax and that the Nazis would go away when the weather changed.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  25. #7450
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    What I want to know is in what way he thought people would "panic" over the corona virus that would be worse than people dying from the coronavirus. Put too many masks on? Too much distancing? Would they flee into the minefields that are modern day forests?

    https://twitter.com/c_m_dangelo/stat...241218048?s=20
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  26. #7451
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    What I want to know is in what way he thought people would "panic" over the corona virus that would be worse than people dying from the coronavirus. Put too many masks on? Too much distancing?
    The toilet paper shortage that was happening everywhere else could have also happened in the USA! Oh wait...



    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Would they flee into the minefields that are modern day forests?

    https://twitter.com/c_m_dangelo/stat...241218048?s=20
    Should I be taking him literally here, or seriously? I'm never sure which one it is.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  27. #7452
    How is Biden only ahead by 5% right now? Even Hillary had a bigger lead than that before Comey spilled the beans on her.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  28. #7453
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    'Cause no one wants Biden, either.

    I get that I don't understand the workings of politics, but Biden is just not energizing anyone. There's anti-Trump energy in spades, but no pro-Biden energy. He's an empty shirt.

    Harris as VP? IDK about that, either. Great to have a woman of color in a top position, but she's not exactly seen to be a presidential figure to anyone I've asked about it. They're both just kinda yawn.


    I mean... Trump is corrupt AF, but it's not like the Dems are not corrupt. They're just not on his level.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  29. #7454
    Well it's hard to see Biden as more than two-dimensional when the cameras are always on Trump. You just can't compete with that level of crazy without having a bunch of personality disorders.

    Maybe people need to re-think their priorities. Being the leader of a country is about running the country with a steady hand, not about being someone who knows nothing about the job but is fun to watch because he's capable of doing and saying crazy shit 365 days a year.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  30. #7455
    I mean... Trump is corrupt AF, but it's not like the Dems are not corrupt. They're just not on his level.

    Sure they are, they're just more subtle about it.

    It doesn't surprise me that it's closer than people expected, and it won't surprise me if Trump wins, either. The only thing that will surprise me in this upcoming election is if the loser (whoever that is) accepts defeat gracefully.

    The left use racism as an election tactic because they know they will lose an election based purely on economic grounds. It's a strong tactic too, there are a lot of people who outright assume any Trump supporter is racist, stupid, immoral, worthy of contempt. But is it a winning tactic? I don't think so, because it doesn't cause a migration of votes, it only reinforces your own vote base. People don't like being called racist when they are not, and rather than change their opinion, they tend to double down. People are stubborn.

    I expect Trump will win, but I also think Biden is more electable than Clinton, so I could be wrong. It's close.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  31. #7456
    If you go by Trump's popularity ratings since being elected, there's relatively few people who seem to migrate, which I attribute largely to the apparent absence of any objective media reporting whatsoever in the US. The Trumpers watch Fox and get constantly hammered with the message of how great he is, whereas the non-Trumpers watch CNN/NBC, etc.., and get constantly hammered with the opposite message. After four years of that, none of them will change their minds (with the slight caveat that Fox has occasionally started being more critical of Trump lately, though I think not enough to undo the effect of the last four years of constant cheerleading).

    I think the critical thing will be turnout and which side can get more people to go and vote and/or whether the Rs can effectively disenfranchise enough D voters.

    As for turnout, Hillary was completely uninspiring and it should be easy for Biden to outperform her caveat emptor. The problem is the pandemic and all the mail in voting shenanigans it opens the doors to, which Trump will try to exploit as much as possible.

    And wow, lol that the Ds are just as corrupt as Trump. I don't know what planet you have to live on to believe that. Even the Rs aren't as corrupt as Trump.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  32. #7457
    And wow, lol that the Ds are just as corrupt as Trump. I don't know what planet you have to live on to believe that. Even the Rs aren't as corrupt as Trump.

    I mean, I just don't know how you could put your trust in the integrity of any politician, at least enough to say "this one is more corrupt". idk about Biden, but when it comes to Trump vs Clinton, your guess is as good as mine as to which is more corrupt. I'd argue that corrupt NGOs are a little more concerning than simple conflict-of-interest business arrangements, but at the same time what the fuck do I know about either of their corruptions? I think both are highly corrupt, and so too is pretty much any politician with eyes on the top job.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  33. #7458
    Maybe Bernie wasn't corrupt. Perhaps that's why the Dems did their best to stop him winning. To the Dems, Trump winning was preferably to Bernie. So yeah, the Dems are totally corrupt, so much so that they don't actually care about winning, they care about economics.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  34. #7459
    I might be conflating corruption with general ill-suitedness to the job. And I'm not keen about speculating on who is more sleazy than whom when no-one is looking. But for certain, Trump is totally shameless about his corruption, which is why it keeps getting exposed. Maybe that's the only difference, dunno.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  35. #7460
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    I think Biden is actually genuine in thinking his brand of politics is the right path forward. As far as if anything he did rises to the level of corruption seems rather silly considering who he's up against.

    This is a lesser of two evils election, but it could not be more clear which one that is.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  36. #7461
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    It's true!

    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  37. #7462
    Oskar be careful you don't sit under a tree, it might explode at any minute!!

    (I'm actually kinda impressed that he knew Austria was in Europe though).
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  38. #7463
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    The state of american electoral politics: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ction-day.html
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  39. #7464
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The state of american electoral politics: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ction-day.html
    I think a lot of people here wouldn't mind a 5-6 week coma either, or maybe a 5-6 year one. We're threatening to burn out of the EU with no deal with either them or the US, we're out of covid tests, cases were rising before that, there's talk of another national lockdown coming, and half the country is on the verge of losing their shit already.

    The only thing I'm fairly certain of is that the gov't thinks a lockdown would be a bad look for them, and so if it comes it will be too late and more people will die than had to.

    Coma me please.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  40. #7465
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    Specialty Milk™
    "It's a small little grouping of milks!"

    Last edited by oskar; 09-18-2020 at 03:09 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  41. #7466
    Damn, we thought we could get away with it!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  42. #7467
    Meanwhile Trump is trying to make American education, which is already so insular and jingoistic that it teaches kids that WWII began with Pearl Harbor, somehow even more insular and jingoistic.

    https://twitter.com/feliciasonmez/st...71119114604544
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  43. #7468
    Is there a vocal minority of anti-mask, anti-vax, anti-lockdown, herd mentality tards in every country, or is it mainly a US/UK thing?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  44. #7469
    I think it's more widespread than you think. Even Germany has had people protesting.

    I mean, honestly, I'm suspicious of covid, like it's just another way of a mass transfer of wealth from working class to rich (by means of economic stimuli that the taxpayer ultimately pays interest on). I'm in no doubt powerful people are making huge amounts of money out of this. But I wouldn't dream of protesting about it, because I am completely aware it could just be stupid paranoia, those making money could just be opportunists. I think it's incredibly reckless to take the risk without strong grounds for suspicion.

    The "herd immunity" thing might have merit, but again, it's not something I feel strongly enough about to shout about. What the fuck do I know about viral pandemics?

    It's one thing to express an opinion, but another altogether to go batshit about it. Too many people think they know best. I don't. I know I could be wrong about everything I just said.

    Oh, and the people who think 5G causes covid need a sharp boot to the throat.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #7470
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm suspicious of covid, like it's just another way of a mass transfer of wealth from working class to rich (by means of economic stimuli that the taxpayer ultimately pays interest on). I'm in no doubt powerful people are making huge amounts of money out of this.
    I have no doubt there are people exploiting it to make themselves richer, just like there's people who exploit every other crisis. I don't see how forcing people to stay home makes anyone money though vs. letting them go out, apart from maybe Amazon and Zoom.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  46. #7471
    It's an economic thing. Where is all this furlough money coming from? It's not thin air. Every pound that is pumped into the economy comes at a cost. That cost is paid from the taxpayer to the lender. That's a transfer of wealth. If people are at home, they're not working, and so "borrow" money off the govt, and by govt I mean banks. Also, businesses need to borrow money to stay afloat. Govt don't give a fuck about individual companies, they care about large corrupt compaines, like GlaxoKleinSmith to pick one.

    It's a dubious conspiracy, because obviously govt want people paying tax, but perhaps it's viable for a year or whatever. I really don't know. It's the cynic in me, looking for reasons how this could be bullshit. I don't necessarily believe it, but at the same time I don't necessarily believe the official narrative, either. I don't think the Tories are as stupid as you think they are. I think they are highly competent and highly corrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  47. #7472
    I mean they're obviously corrupt. When someone like Dido Harding, who's been a serial failure at management in the past. and with no qualifications apart from being a Tory crony, gets put in charge of TTI instead of the NHS, someone who can't foresee that when you open the schools demand for tests will go up, it's hard to imagine any other scenario than corruption.

    But I can think of two other reasons that lockdown does them no good. First, if it was corruptible, Trump and other corrupt leaders would be it's biggest champion, but it's quite the opposite. It's more of a liberal/conservative thing, where the con countries are the most resistant to lockdown. You can argue the reasons for that but the transparent things like individual freedom vs. collective good seems to fit pretty well.

    Secondly, people need to work to generate wealth, so tellling them to stay home doesn't seem like a way to generate money.

    All that said, it is amazing to hear how much richer the very richest have been getting. So maybe there's more going on than I understand.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  48. #7473
    More generally, I don't think you need to be clever to make money as a politician, you just need to be amoral. I bet these guys get offered shady 'deals' all the time.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  49. #7474
    I don't think you need to be clever either, politicians are in a very privileged position where corrupt companies will pay backhanders for favour. But the competency I speak of is a masterful ploy to convince the public they are stupid instead of corrupt. Today's big story is about a Russian football owner who, unsurprisingly, has shown himself to be somewhat lacking in moral integrity. Like we didn't know that. But if you dig deeper, you discover that Russian money is flowing through London like you wouldn't believe. So the public think that Russia is an enemy of the UK, when the truth couldn't be more different. The government do a truly outstanding job of distracting the public when it comes to Russia, to the point where people actually think we're morally superior to them. We're not. We're equally corrupt, and we're allies.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  50. #7475
    Stupid and corrupt are orthogonal though. They can be both.

    Assuming they want to be re-elected, stupid is not a good look, especially if it's costing lives.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  51. #7476
    It's easy to say the government are being stupid and costing lives, but I'm of the opinion that the people are stupid and costing lives. Did you see the crowds in Blackpool? You can't blame the govt for that. If the people were responsible, it's easier to blame the govt, but people are not responsible.

    Also, people don't give a fuck about this when it comes to elections. Ultimately, Tories win the next election because there are not enough people who trust Labour economics. That's why the Tories dominate British politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  52. #7477
    The gov't can't on the one hand demand compliance with a straight face while on the other ignoring Cummings' little covid road trip. They have to bear their share of responsibility, as well as do the people who are being covidiots. Gov't have to set an example, and they've already failed. It'd be like Churchill and his cabinet saying "fight them on the beaches" while taking German lessons three times a week. People would have rightly said "fuck this lot, I'm deserting"

    I think after Brexit the public are going to run out of people apart from the gov't to blame their problems on. The EU was an easy target, once we're out of that and people are even poorer than they were already, they either have to blame Scotland or finally realise where there problems actually originated.

    It will be interesting to see who replaces Johnson after Brexit. There's a few signs he won't be around much longer than the end of the year.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  53. #7478
    Cummings wasn't "testing his eyes" ffs, he was farting distance from GlaxoSmithKline two days before they announce a vaccine deal. You acknowledge that the govt are corrupt and are happy to take backhanders, do you really think Cummings was just on a dumbass road trip? Assuming he's on govt business, he's not breaking lockdown rules. He might be breaking other laws though, depending on circumstances. Also, you can't say "well he did it, so I'm going to too" when it comes to risking the lives of other people. If you're going to morally judge Cummings, you can't then copy his behaviour.

    I doubt Boris stands aside before his term is up, I completely expect him to be our PM for another term after this. Not that I give a fuck either way, but it's what I expect.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  54. #7479
    Doesn't matter what Cummings was actually doing there, what matters was the perception. If the gov't were 'smart' as you say, they would have made sure no-one saw him up there.

    And I agree you can't say 'you did it, so will I', but you can't be surprised when some people do say that, which is my point.

    Boris is a clear liability. He's already polling below Starmer while his party still has a comfortable lead. Don't need to be a genius to see where that's heading.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  55. #7480
    Doesn't matter what Cummings was actually doing there, what matters was the perception. If the gov't were 'smart' as you say, they would have made sure no-one saw him up there.

    Easier said than done. Cummings is highly recognisable, especially in the town where he was (Durham?). I guess he could have worn a disguise! But instead he took his kids along to make it look like he was on a family trip.

    I mean, it's just too much of a coincidence for me. I don't trust government, or any politician or govt "adviser" for that matter, I also don't trust pharmaceutical companies, so I'm quite comfortable assuming this was not really a family trip. Obviously I could be wrong, but it would be quite the coincidence.

    It's my assumption that the government correctly assume that the people would freak out over his "lockdown breach" and pay no attention to anything else.

    Also, have you learned nothing about polls yet? They are used by those who conduct them to attempt to influence public opinion, and it doesn't work. You could get 5:1 odds on us leaving the EU just hours before the results started coming in. Everyone expected us to remain because "the bookies know what they're doing". Trump was not expected to win, and he's not expected to win this year either, if the polls are to be believed (51-43 as of 20th Sept, according to BBC).

    Ignore the polls, they tell you nothing useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  56. #7481
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Easier said than done. Cummings is highly recognisable, especially in the town where he was (Durham?). I guess he could have worn a disguise! But instead he took his kids along to make it look like he was on a family trip.
    You should write spy novels. A family trip at the height of a pandemic and a hard lockdown. Lol, good cover.

    Face it, either he was stupid to get caught or he was stupid to get caught.

    Assuming he was there to meet some dark figures from GSK, just why? Why not do a Zoom meeting? Or, shuttle up there in the backseat of a car, then shuttle right back before he was even missed?

    Apparently Boris was seen in ITA over the weekend too, so probably not wanking off from work like he did for the COBRA meetings, but obv. meeting with his Italian contacts at GSK.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's my assumption that the government correctly assume that the people would freak out over his "lockdown breach" and pay no attention to anything else.
    Like I said, it wouldn't have taken James Bond to keep that trip a secret.

    It is amusing how you assume everyone in power who is being an idiot is doing it as part of some cunning mastermind 3D chess plan, instead of just being an idiot. No matter how many times they do it.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Also, have you learned nothing about polls yet? They are used by those who conduct them to attempt to influence public opinion, and it doesn't work. You could get 5:1 odds on us leaving the EU just hours before the results started coming in. Everyone expected us to remain because "the bookies know what they're doing". Trump was not expected to win, and he's not expected to win this year either, if the polls are to be believed (51-43 as of 20th Sept, according to BBC).

    Ignore the polls, they tell you nothing useful.
    Ugh, do I have to explain margin of error to you again? And while I'm at it, explain how bookies make their odds? It's not based on polls, it's based on how people are betting.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  57. #7482
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  58. #7483
    Assuming he was there to meet some dark figures from GSK, just why? Why not do a Zoom meeting? Or, shuttle up there in the backseat of a car, then shuttle right back before he was even missed?
    Zoom isn't secure. And if he's seen being shady, that's a lot more suspect than being seen with his family.

    Apparently Boris was seen in ITA over the weekend too, so probably not wanking off from work like he did for the COBRA meetings, but obv. meeting with his Italian contacts at GSK.
    Boris' old man has a place in Italy. I find it far more likely he was having a break. idk what he was doing in Italy, it could be dodgy business, but it seems unlikely because I'm not aware of any Italian vaccine deal or anything like that being announced since his visit.

    It is amusing how you assume everyone in power who is being an idiot is doing it as part of some cunning mastermind 3D chess plan, instead of just being an idiot. No matter how many times they do it.
    Cummings is a sample size of one. Hardly "everyone".

    Ugh, do I have to explain margin of error to you again? And while I'm at it, explain how bookies make their odds? It's not based on polls, it's based on how people are betting.
    To a degree, yes. Though bookies are not immune to corruption... they could be paid a backhander to fiddle the odds. And of course, peoples' betting when it comes to politics is influenced by... drumroll please... polls.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  59. #7484
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Zoom isn't secure. And if he's seen being shady, that's a lot more suspect than being seen with his family.
    The UK gov't doesn't have a secure video line?

    And if he doesn't get seen at all, there's nothing to suspect.

    You're logic just gets more torturous by the post. According to you: 1. Cummings went to GSK to secure a vaccine deal. 2. He took his family to visit his relatives at a nearby town so in case anyone saw him, he could claim he was simply taking a liberal interpretation of lockdown rules that would piss the entire country off and make them call for his sacking. 3. No-one saw him within 10 miles of GSK, so apparently he managed to go undetected on that part of the trip, but not the part of the trip he was using to cover the real nature of the trip.

    Tinfoil Ian Fleming.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Cummings is a sample size of one. Hardly "everyone".
    You've previously argued that Trump isn't an idiot, and the evidence to the contrary has been overwelming for quite a while now. Have you since changed your mind?





    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    To a degree, yes. Though bookies are not immune to corruption... they could be paid a backhander to fiddle the odds. And of course, peoples' betting when it comes to politics is influenced by... drumroll please... polls.
    So the bookies aren't just pulling the odds out of their own arses. Glad we agree.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And of course, peoples' betting when it comes to politics is influenced by... drumroll please... polls.
    Citation needed. The degree to which people's betting depends on polls is probably quite small and varies from person to person. Most people I reckon just bet on their "team" like they do with sports.

    And wtf bets on a referendum anyways? Not a normal person imo.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  60. #7485
    The UK gov't doesn't have a secure video line?
    I'm sure they do, it just isn't zoom.

    And if he doesn't get seen at all, there's nothing to suspect.
    Very true, but can you guarantee it when he's in his home town region?

    3. No-one saw him within 10 miles of GSK, so apparently he managed to go undetected on that part of the trip, but not the part of the trip he was using to cover the real nature of the trip.
    I don't know this is true, how can you? Granted, I haven't read anything from anyone saying they saw him driving down the M1 or whatever, but he might have been seen. He was seen in the same town as the GSK factory, that much I know.

    You've previously argued that Trump isn't an idiot, and the evidence to the contrary has been overwelming for quite a while now. Have you since changed your mind?
    I'm a bit more flexible in this regard. Trump says some fucking stupid things. It's getting harder to believe he's playing 3D chess, or trolling.

    So the bookies aren't just pulling the odds out of their own arses. Glad we agree.
    Of course they're not. The bookies are operating a business, and their entire business model relies on an extremely sophisticated understanding of betting patterns. The bookies won't just fix the odds on demand, not unless they are compensated for their losses. That absolutely could have happened. This is a lot more tinfoil than Cummings meeting GSK.

    Citation needed. The degree to which people's betting depends on polls is probably quite small and varies from person to person. Most people I reckon just bet on their "team" like they do with sports.
    I'm not so sure about this. I think betting on sports is a lot more partisan based than politics. I regularly bet on sport, only small bets but I look for good value bets that I consider +ev. I don't think I'm very good at it, but I try. I won't bet on politics because I don't understand politics like I do football. I know who's likely to win when Liverpool play West Ham, but I have no idea who's going to win an EU referendum. I don't think there are many people who bet on their "team" when it comes to politics, I think it's more those who think they have identified a +ev bet, but I could be wrong.

    And wtf bets on a referendum anyways? Not a normal person imo.
    Exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  61. #7486
    Well at least the implementation of Brexit is going smoothly.

    #MEGA

    https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/sta...029637/photo/1
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  62. #7487
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    The Trump interview with Woodward is still shocking to me.
    He speaks intelligently and expresses a deeper understanding of the issues than he ever does in other public spaces or interviews.

    The sheer disconnect in all that is still surprising to me. Like... I never assume anyone who makes it to the top of a field (American politics in this case) is stupid. So I've never bought into the whole "Trump can't form a sentence" argument. Still... to hear him speak with intelligence is weird.

    It only makes all his scandals that much worse. Like, if he's truly an idiot who doesn't know how to solve problems, that's one thing. If he actually knows how to solve problems, but he chooses to let people die to further his own ends, then that's just unbelievable to me. How is that not just evil?

    I'm not getting all moral on this, despite the language. I'm just at a loss to understand how someone can know the sheer lethality of the pandemic and then publicly downplay that and encourage people to behave in ways that will definitely kill them. I can understand that there is more on the line than the immediate deaths from COVID. I can understand that economic collapse will kill a lot of people, too. I can try to pretend that there's a balancing act, but I simply can't imagine a scenario in which Trump's handling is productive.

    Not that my imagination is a measure of good governance.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  63. #7488
    I wondered that too. He actually sounds coherent when talking to Woodward - I wouldn't go so far as to say 'intelligent' but he at least seems able to grasp the seriousness of the virus.

    As for why he both understands that and acts in ways that are indifferent to the suffering it causes, I can only see one explanation: "sociopath."
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  64. #7489
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Well at least the implementation of Brexit is going smoothly.

    #MEGA

    https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/sta...029637/photo/1
    Well it's not all bad news, is it? I mean 7000 lorries waiting to cross the channel... I wouldn't call that a "fucked economy".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  65. #7490
    As for why he both understands that and acts in ways that are indifferent to the suffering it causes, I can only see one explanation: "sociopath."
    Can you name me a former president who wasn't a sociopath? Other than JFK.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  66. #7491
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well it's not all bad news, is it? I mean 7000 lorries waiting to cross the channel... I wouldn't call that a "fucked economy".
    I would.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  67. #7492
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Can you name me a former president who wasn't a sociopath? Other than JFK.
    First name to pop into my head was Obama. Admittedly, had to go back 4 years for that one.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  68. #7493
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I would.
    No lorries wanting to take goods out of the country seems like a worse scenario to me.

    First name to pop into my head was Obama. Admittedly, had to go back 4 years for that one.
    I'm pretty sure you have to be a sociopath to drone the shit out of villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  69. #7494
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well it's not all bad news, is it? I mean 7000 lorries waiting to cross the channel... I wouldn't call that a "fucked economy".
    I assume you're being deliberately dense here, but just in case you're not:

    If there's 7k lorries parked at Kent, there'll be a similar number of lorries parked at Calais waiting to bring goods over here. Things we need like food, medicine, etc. Hence the warnings from the so-called "Project Fear" experts that were poo-poohed by Brexiters.

    "Just in time" manufacturing is the standard these days, and relies on things arriving on time, not hours or days later. So expect a lot of disruption there.

    Tariffs will still be in place and so prices will go up regardless of whether there are delays or not.

    And before you say this should motivate the EU to make a deal, please note that a trading bloc of 450m that already has trade deals with most of the world outside the UK (as opposed to our one deal - in principle - with Japan) is not going to be intimidated by a country of 68m that will be desperately looking for someone, anyone, to trade with.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  70. #7495
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm pretty sure you have to be a sociopath to drone the shit out of villages.
    By that standard, Churchill was a sociopath when he allowed the RAF to bomb Germany into rubble in WWII.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  71. #7496
    It's one thing to kill enemy civilians in a war, it's quite another to let your own people die to "save the economy" so you can get re-elected.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  72. #7497
    If there's 7k lorries parked at Kent, there'll be a similar number of lorries parked at Calais waiting to bring goods over here. Things we need like food, medicine, etc. Hence the warnings from the so-called "Project Fear" experts that were poo-poohed by Brexiters.
    You make is sound like these lorries will just be parked there forever, with the stuff on them never arriving, like the ferries have been cancelled.

    It might take longer for goods to move between the UK and the EU. That doesn't mean things stop arriving. And I very much doubt we'll see queues of 7000 lorries on both sides of the channel, not unless the ferries have been cancelled because of a storm, anyway. Wake me up when it happens. Until then, it's just nonsense. On the one hand, they want you to think nobody will trade with us when we leave, and on the other, they want you to think that all the trade that is actually still happening is forever waiting at Dover to leave. That's why it's called "project fear". It's propaganda.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  73. #7498
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    By that standard, Churchill was a sociopath when he allowed the RAF to bomb Germany into rubble in WWII.
    Churchill probably was a sociopath, but we were actually at war so it's a little different.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #7499
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You make is sound like these lorries will just be parked there forever, with the stuff on them never arriving, like the ferries have been cancelled.
    Tariffs will still be in place and so prices will go up regardless of whether there are delays or not.
    Go on...


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And I very much doubt we'll see queues of 7000 lorries on both sides of the channel, not unless the ferries have been cancelled because of a storm, anyway. Wake me up when it happens. Until then, it's just nonsense.
    That tweet that started this convo today was the gov't saying it, Michael Gove, not me.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    On the one hand, they want you to think nobody will trade with us when we leave, and on the other, they want you to think that all the trade that is actually still happening is forever waiting at Dover to leave. That's why it's called "project fear". It's propaganda.
    Then it's gov't propaganda. Fuck me you've actually brainwashed yourself into believing the gov't is joined in with Project Fear now.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  75. #7500
    Another point... Dover isn't even our main goods port. 7000 lorries is nothing compared to what's at Felixstowe. But of course, that's proper cargo, your massive container ships, not a ferry carrying lorries. Even if there is a queue of 7000 lorries, that's a piss in a lake. Our food from Brazil still gets here, in pretty much the same amount of time than in did before, because nothing has changed between Brazil and the UK. Brazilian fruit doesn't sit at a port rotting, waiting to cross.

    Dover is just our most famous port, which is why you'll hear more about Dover than Felixstowe. Propaganda.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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