|
Originally Posted by boost
1) a quid pro quo is certainly heavily implied and requires willful obtuseness to miss, but nonetheless it's absolutely not necessary for impeachment here. Using the weight on the office and the institutions of government to further his personal interests, in this case Trump's reelection effort, is impeachable.
Willful obtuseness is a requisite element of partisan politics, so check that box.
What Trump has already gotten away with is so far above and beyond the precedent for non-POTUS impeachment. Saying what he's done is "impeachable" is not directly true, IMO. Impeachable for someone else in another position, or that same someone at a different time is not really saying that what he's done is impeachable for him today.
Take that quote about Andrew Johnson. The first thing is "rude speech that reflected badly on the office." Trump's "rude speech" is a significant factor in why he was elected. His criticism of Congress and refusal to follow laws is seen as a good thing by Rep voters. Those simply aren't impeachable actions for this POTUS at this time, IMO.
Originally Posted by boost
Compounding that violation is using the office and the institutions to undermine a political rival. This is impeachable because if there were no remedy for these transgressions, we're rolling the dice until we land on a dictator for life.
This is significant, but the political powers we have don't care and wont care until/unless we, the constituents, demand they care. The problem is that the constituency is so deeply divided along partisan lines that there's no action.
I mean
I'm dubious that people elected without term-limits are really anti-lifetime political appointment. I.e. Congress has no term limits, and they are primarily focused on keeping their job for life by being re-elected every time election happens. They're clearly in favor of political monopoly. They're clearly in favor of nepotism.
My point is that the ethos that our leaders are interested in leading us is hogwash.
So long as Rep voters are ignoring the criticism of Trump, and will not themselves support impeachment, it is not politically tenable for the Rep Senate to impeach. Unless the Senators are actually concerned that not impeaching Trump threatens their job, they wont impeach.
... is the precedent we've seen over the past many years. ... and if what's past is prologue...
Originally Posted by boost
2) Impeachment does not require the breaking of any laws. There are ways in which duly granted powers can be used without breaking a law which nonetheless break out democracy.
Yes. I only recently learned this.
It's actually common for impeachment to happen between the time a person is elected and the time they are sworn into office. Not so much on the national level, mind.
Originally Posted by boost
All democracies are constantly playing Wack-a-Mole with would be dictators. Republican Rome's fatal flaw, or at least the one that ultimately was exploited by Caesar, was the structure of the military which not only allowed for but incentivized generals to seek and codify the loyalty of their ranks to themselves personally. Impeachment is written into our constitution with intentionally vague parameters-- the best worded laws have loopholes, and loopholes in the limits of power lead to dictators. On the other hand, in the powers of impeachment, the constitution has entrusted in Congress the power to use their sole discretion to decide whether or not our democracy is being broken by a president.
I can't speak to Rome.
I'm dubious that Congress actually cares that much about "our democracy," so much as they care about "their own job / income / appearance on TV."
I think so long as we the constituents are ignoring each other, ignoring each other's news, pretending our bubbles of like-minded people we talk politics with are "right," that politicians are encouraged to do the same.
I fear its going to take a real breakdown of democratic principles to re-establish a sense of love for democracy in America. Right now, all we have is lip-service to our ideals. Sooner or later, that superficial veneer of justice will flake off and it's going to take a real disaster to wake us up.
I simply cannot get over how we call ourselves the land of the free and put so many of our own people into prisons that we have NGO prisons. I can't get over that we lock people up for non-violent crimes. I can't get over how all this increased punishment has had no effect on the crime rates, and we still have politicians who want to increase punishments to lower crime rates. It's the veneer. It sounds good, so people vote for it. Even though the evidence is everywhere that it's just wrong.
|