*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[oskar]

Which of the successes of the administration so far should not have happened since he's a bumbling fool?

I am not sure what success you're speaking of. The economy was in an upward trend because the world economy was coming out of a recession. Most countries on earth had an economic upturn in the past 3 years. At the same time Trump has given roughly $1 trillion in tax cuts to the super rich. That in addition to tariffs and farmer bailouts, he has managed to increase the federal debt by 3 trillion. One of his campaign promises was to eliminate the debt. What else? Did he manage to do anything except build a couple feet of steel fencing with taxpayer money?

Btw, I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear it, but my challenge for Trump supporters to produce a Trump quote that is distinguishable from something a retard would say still has not been met!
Since this has not been obvious to some: reading from a teleprompter does not count.

I do have some evidence to the contrary:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...945970176?s=20
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...794535432?s=20
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...050531840?s=20

[oskar]

Trump famously called the 89 Bejing student protest "a riot" and the Tienanmen Square massacre to stop them a "strong move".
These companies are gambling that not being banned in china is worth more than what they lose to boicots. I hope they're wrong.

[wufwugy]

Trump famously called the 89 Bejing student protest "a riot" and the Tienanmen Square massacre to stop them a "strong move".

If he makes a deal with China any time soon I am likely to be unhappy. They don't want a fair deal and we don't want an unfair deal. So hopefully no deal and isntead continuation of decoupling from China.

These companies are gambling that not being banned in china is worth more than what they lose to boicots. I hope they're wrong.

I totally agree. Taking the Devil's Advocate on this is interesting too because I think it's possible that what corporations bring to China might be one of the necessary elements of what takes down its dictatorship eventually.

[wufwugy]

I am not sure what success you're speaking of. The economy was in an upward trend because the world economy was coming out of a recession. Most countries on earth had an economic upturn in the past 3 years. At the same time Trump has given roughly $1 trillion in tax cuts to the super rich. That in addition to tariffs and farmer bailouts, he has managed to increase the federal debt by 3 trillion. One of his campaign promises was to eliminate the debt. What else? Did he manage to do anything except build a couple feet of steel fencing with taxpayer money?

He's done nothing on healthcare, nothing on retirement, is terrible on race relations, and is increasing government spending. That's all bad news and stuff he needs to be called on.

[wufwugy]

What are those successes?

My top three:

(1) He overhauled policy on North Korea and peace is more promising now than ever.
(2) He overhauled policy on ISIS and they've been eradicated.
(3) The economy is markedly better under his administration.

[CoccoBill]

My top three:

(1) He overhauled policy on North Korea and peace is more promising now than ever.

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the US agreed to stop military exercises with South Korea in exchange for a vague nuclear disarmament deal with no specifics. I'm not quite sure how peace in a meaningful sense is any closer. NK remains a hostile dictatorship with aims to develop nuclear weapons.

(2) He overhauled policy on ISIS and they've been eradicated.

Eradicated?
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/21/p...rge/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/u...raq-syria.html

(3) The economy is markedly better under his administration.

Than when? I'm assuming under Obama, who had to deal with the 2008 crisis. I think the whole world has been doing much better the past few years. Which exact policies do you think have most contributed to the US economy? For reference, here's some data. To me it seems like the upwards trend has been going on at the same pace at least since the 90s, and apart from the 2008 dip, it has continued through Obama's latter years in office. There is no change after Trump took office. Or were you thinking of a different metric?

[wufwugy]

My understanding, which may be wrong, is that the US agreed to stop military exercises with South Korea in exchange for a vague nuclear disarmament deal with no specifics. I'm not quite sure how peace in a meaningful sense is any closer. NK remains a hostile dictatorship with aims to develop nuclear weapons.

That is correct. If we see NK restart their previous norms of nuclear and icbm testing and if we see negotiations with SK, Japan, and US move backwards over a long period of time, then things will be back to where they were before Trump.

Eradicated?
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/21/p...rge/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/u...raq-syria.html

As the CNN article says, the caliphate is gone.

Than when? I'm assuming under Obama, who had to deal with the 2008 crisis. I think the whole world has been doing much better the past few years. Which exact policies do you think have most contributed to the US economy? For reference, here's some data. To me it seems like the upwards trend has been going on at the same pace at least since the 90s, and apart from the 2008 dip, it has continued through Obama's latter years in office. There is no change after Trump took office. Or were you thinking of a different metric?

Effects of policy can be seen over very short terms (theoretically they are often immediate). To be completely fair I compare from after the 2012 election to now.

The economy should always feel the same day to day, week to week, year to year -- all regardless of the real strength of the economy. This is an essential description of central banks' role. This sameness characterizes mostly both 2nd term Obama and 1st term Trump time periods, with probably Trump being slightly better but not that noticeably.

The economy feels about the same now as it did before Trump, as it should. The following nominal GDP graph shows what I'm talking about:



You may ask: if things feel the same doesn't that mean they are the same? The answer is only over the short term. Over the long term, it matters what about the feeling is real and what is inflation. Here I've broken down the nominal economy into its two components: inflation and real growth. As you can see, it matters where they are, but overall they're supposed to be managed such that they about the same.



But that's not the whole story. Notice how under Obama's 2nd term the federal funds rate (which drives the real interest rate) is subdued under Obama yet begins regular and frequent increases under Trump. This shows that the real economy is significantly stronger than the real GDP metric suggests.

Economists have two main ways of understanding what the behavior of the interest rate means, yet even though they are quite different they both suggest Obama's economy was less good than Trump's.

What's not in debate among economists and what is taught at every level of an economics education is decreasing the interest rate has an expansive impact on growth, and an increasing interest rate has a contracting impact on growth. As you can see this means that because the interest rate under Trump is increasing significantly more than it did under Obama, that it is probable that Trump's growth would be higher (by a lot) if he had Obama's interest rates.

Does that make sense? I haven't talked econ in a long ass time. Thanks for the prompt! :thumbsup

[CoccoBill]

That is correct. If we see NK restart their previous norms of nuclear and icbm testing and if we see negotiations with SK, Japan, and US move backwards over a long period of time, then things will be back to where they were before Trump.

Like I already said at the time, the bar for him was fairly low and just that his meetings with Kim didn't immediately start a nuclear showdown was a positive. Sure, things may have stabilized a bit, but not something I would necessarily rate as a great success.

As the CNN article says, the caliphate is gone.

So success in the sense that Gulf War I and II were successes? I hope round 4 isn't right around the corner.

Effects of policy can be seen over very short terms (theoretically they are often immediate). To be completely fair I compare from after the 2012 election to now.

The economy should always feel the same day to day, week to week, year to year -- all regardless of the real strength of the economy. This is an essential description of central banks' role. This sameness characterizes mostly both 2nd term Obama and 1st term Trump time periods, with probably Trump being slightly better but not that noticeably.

The economy feels about the same now as it did before Trump, as it should. The following nominal GDP graph shows what I'm talking about:



You may ask: if things feel the same doesn't that mean they are the same? The answer is only over the short term. Over the long term, it matters what about the feeling is real and what is inflation. Here I've broken down the nominal economy into its two components: inflation and real growth. As you can see, it matters where they are, but overall they're supposed to be managed such that they about the same.



But that's not the whole story. Notice how under Obama's 2nd term the federal funds rate (which drives the real interest rate) is subdued under Obama yet begins regular and frequent increases under Trump. This shows that the real economy is significantly stronger than the real GDP metric suggests.

Economists have two main ways of understanding what the behavior of the interest rate means, yet even though they are quite different they both suggest Obama's economy was less good than Trump's.

What's not in debate among economists and what is taught at every level of an economics education is decreasing the interest rate has an expansive impact on growth, and an increasing interest rate has a contracting impact on growth. As you can see this means that because the interest rate under Trump is increasing significantly more than it did under Obama, that it is probable that Trump's growth would be higher (by a lot) if he had Obama's interest rates.

Does that make sense? I haven't talked econ in a long ass time. Thanks for the prompt! :thumbsup

Thanks for the explanation. GDP and inflation I think I sort of understand, and effective federal funds rate seems to be indirectly set by the FED, by buying and selling government bonds. So that was dropped to (near) zero after the 2008 crisis, and has been rising since 2015, when I guess the FED had deemed the US is out of the gutter? I guess it's notable that was during Obama's time.

Here's some other indicators I found on wikipedia of Obama's last 2 years and Trumps first 2:



So there has been improvements in unemployment rates, wages and poverty rates, but at the same time increases in budget deficit and the trade deficit. From my economic layman's perspective it's hard to see this as an unequivocal success, and even if it can be labeled as that, how can we know for sure this is all because of Trump's policies, and not just part of the global economy's upward cycle?

[oskar]

As the CNN article says, the caliphate is gone.

Which means nothing. There are an estimated 10,000 isis fighters in US/Kurdish controlled prison camps in the area that Turkey is currently invading shortly after Trump promised Erdogan not to intervene. We don't know what's going to happen with them. They could be summary executed, which given that these are suspects who have been held without a trial, would be catastrophic. They could be released. Trump said he doesn't care if they're released because "they'll go to europe."

These 10,000 are nothing compared to a new generation that grew up with the US backing an illegal invasion, stabbing the Kurds in the back weeks after they agreed to and acted on a disarmament deal. This will inevitably breed more terrorists. This is a genocide that the US has an active part in. They are executing Kurds on the street, they are deliberately going after Kurdish politicians, and they are targeting women as children, and not just military bases.

[oskar]

Which means nothing. There are an estimated 10,000 isis fighters in US/Kurdish controlled prison camps...

https://forum.pictures/isis-militant...urkish-forces/

It's ok guys! They're heading straight to Europe!

[wufwugy]

Like I already said at the time, the bar for him was fairly low and just that his meetings with Kim didn't immediately start a nuclear showdown was a positive. Sure, things may have stabilized a bit, but not something I would necessarily rate as a great success.

We need more to see if the success is lasting.

So success in the sense that Gulf War I and II were successes? I hope round 4 isn't right around the corner.

Perhaps. The caliphate went from being large and growing quickly to finished. The amount of suffering the Trump admin put to an end is wonderful.

Thanks for the explanation.

Sure thing, man.

GDP and inflation I think I sort of understand, and effective federal funds rate seems to be indirectly set by the FED, by buying and selling government bonds. So that was dropped to (near) zero after the 2008 crisis, and has been rising since 2015, when I guess the FED had deemed the US is out of the gutter? I guess it's notable that was during Obama's time.

Here's some other indicators I found on wikipedia of Obama's last 2 years and Trumps first 2:



So there has been improvements in unemployment rates, wages and poverty rates, but at the same time increases in budget deficit and the trade deficit. From my economic layman's perspective it's hard to see this as an unequivocal success, and even if it can be labeled as that, how can we know for sure this is all because of Trump's policies, and not just part of the global economy's upward cycle?

You are correct and your points are the kinds that needed to be noted. There are theories by economists I respect (some I was trained by) that would be more in line with the idea that Trump had little or nothing to do with it. My own theory is basically that too.

The depressed federal funds rate is a strong sign that there was something wrong during Obama's economy. I think that was Fed policy (not Obama policy directly but POTUS can always affects Fed policy). And near the end of Obama's term, Fed policy got almost exactly where it needed to be. Voila, signs of strengthening in the interest rate start up.

I do not think Trump has created a better economy so much as the economy during Trump is better. I think Trump's effects on the economy are hard to measure, and I would never present them as fact.

[wufwugy]

Which means nothing. There are an estimated 10,000 isis fighters in US/Kurdish controlled prison camps in the area that Turkey is currently invading shortly after Trump promised Erdogan not to intervene. We don't know what's going to happen with them. They could be summary executed, which given that these are suspects who have been held without a trial, would be catastrophic. They could be released. Trump said he doesn't care if they're released because "they'll go to europe."

These 10,000 are nothing compared to a new generation that grew up with the US backing an illegal invasion, stabbing the Kurds in the back weeks after they agreed to and acted on a disarmament deal. This will inevitably breed more terrorists. This is a genocide that the US has an active part in. They are executing Kurds on the street, they are deliberately going after Kurdish politicians, and they are targeting women as children, and not just military bases.

Sounds terrible.

[oskar]

So he doesn't want to be involved in Syria because the Kurds didn't help with Normandie, but he's sending 1800 more troops to Saudi Arabia. They didn't help with WW2 either, but at least they showed up for 9/11!

[oskar]

[boost]

Wait, lol, based on those top three successes, you support him despite everything?

You think NK is a wait and see situation. Doesn't sound like a success.

You think Trump had little if anything to do with the economy. Doesn't sound like a success.

And whatever happened and is happening in Syria is clearly not a raging success.

You sure it's not yourself that has TDS?

[wufwugy]

It's good to hear from you, boost. I hope you're doing well.

[boost]

It's good to hear from you, boost. I hope you're doing well.

I'm well. You're a lot slicker with your persuasion tricks, btw. It's kinda creepy, but it's also fascinating to have seen the evolution.

[oskar]

Is that what it is?
I thought he got vaccinated or sumthin'.

[Poopadoop]

In b4 boost goes FULL MAGA!!

[wufwugy]

I'm well.

Noice.

it's also fascinating to have seen the evolution.

This is an enormous compliment for me.

[wufwugy]

Is that what it is?
I thought he got vaccinated or sumthin'.

Cleared the polio right up.

[OngBonga]

Is America great again yet?

[oskar]

Vice picked a great part of the Michael Cohen hearings as a send of to Elijah Cummings:

[oskar]

Wuf... how do you rate this on the persuasion scale?

[Poopadoop]

Obviously he secretly wanted Ergodan to commit genocide against the Kurds as part of his 3D chess game, so he wrote a letter that sounded like it was written by a 10 year old so E wouldn't take it seriously.

All part of the master plan.

[Poopadoop]

See? It worked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50080737

[OngBonga]

It did!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50091305

[oskar]

This sounds more like a surrender of the YPG. So this is good in the sense that it halts the genocide, but it's a massive win for Turkey. The "safety zone" they're establishing is as much a safety zone as bombing children and potentially freeing thousands of Isis fighters was in any way a "peace spring". It includes three of the largest cities that side of Syria. That's not a safety zone, that's an invasion.

A letter is one way to do it. Me personally, I would have just sent them a bound photo album of the last days of Saddam Hussein, but I'm not a genius negotiator, so what do I know!

[Poopadoop]

So this Sondland guy donates $1m to Trump's inagauration, then they push out the ambassador to Ukraine with 30 years diplomatic experience and a spotless record, and put in Sondland with 0 experience and yeah, nothing fishy going on there. Just another day at the office of POTUS 45.

[Jack Sawyer]

[oskar]

Seems like the reasonable choice... but based on 2016, I'd put my money on: DNC nominates Hillary again, and Tulsi Gabbard runs on a 3rd party ticket, handing Trump a narrow electoral college victory with a record low popular vote.

[wufwugy]

Wuf... how do you rate this on the persuasion scale?

It's not as good as he could've done.

[wufwugy]

Seems like the reasonable choice... but based on 2016, I'd put my money on: DNC nominates Hillary again, and Tulsi Gabbard runs on a 3rd party ticket, handing Trump a narrow electoral college victory with a record low popular vote.

I'm super interested in what AOC's presidency will look like.

[Poopadoop]

I'm super interested in what AOC's presidency will look like.

I think Guiliani as POTUS would be more interesting myself.

[wufwugy]

I think Guiliani as POTUS would be more interesting myself.

How come?

[Poopadoop]

Have you ever seen him being interviewed?

[wufwugy]

Probably some.

[Poopadoop]

You don't find him entertaining?

[boost]

He'd def be a better anti-hero/villain than Trump. Case in point:

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: Did you ask the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden?

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP ATTORNEY: No, actually I didn't. I asked Ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of 2016 by the Ukrainians for the benefit of Hillary Clinton for which there already --

CUOMO: So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?

GIULIANI: Of course I did.


See, I never just did things just to do them. Come on, what am I gonna do? Just all of a sudden jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch like it's something to do? Come on. I got a little more sense then that.
...Yeah, I remember grinding my feet on Eddie's couch.
-Rick James

[Poopadoop]

Come on, how could you not vote for this face?

rudy.jpg

Edit: Only the best people.

[oskar]

This is hysterical:

[wufwugy]

Can you imagine how badly Trump would get stomped if Buttigieg is the nominee?

[Poopadoop]

Apparently, Hillary is seriously considering a rematch. Please for the love of God, no.

[wufwugy]

Hopefully not. She'd win if she noticed the Midwest is a thing this time.

[Poopadoop]

Who do you think Trump has the best chance against?

[wufwugy]

Now that's a good question.

I'll pick from those polling somewhat well:

Sanders.

Sanders' brand is socialist enough that a sizable portion of people who vote for traditional Democrats might not turn out.

He also has the lowest level of identity cred. Identity being the focal component of the Democrats' marketing, Sanders not ticking the right identity boxes could hurt him too much.

[Poopadoop]

Hopefully not. She'd win if she noticed the Midwest is a thing this time.

What about her emails?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Poopadoop]

I'm fairly sure a doorknob could beat Trump if the election were held today. I mainly don't want to see Hillary run just so I don't have to hear her screeching voice and watch her eyes bug out when she sees balloons again.

[wufwugy]

I'm fairly sure a doorknob could beat Trump if the election were held today.

Very well could. The media has transformed reality enough that he might not beat anything.

[Poopadoop]

Well I'm not going to argue reality with you, but I've never liked Trump and the sum total of his actions in the last 3 years hasn't changed my mind.

[Poopadoop]

Still would be preferable to four years of this:



I'm sticking with Guiliana for pres.

[wufwugy]

Well I'm not going to argue reality with you, but I've never liked Trump and the sum total of his actions in the last 3 years hasn't changed my mind.

I'm curious, what would you say is his worst action?

[Poopadoop]

There are three that top the charts imo, and several that are also pretty bad

The child separation policy with immigrants was extremely callous.

The Ukraine extortion to try to get dirt on Biden was extremely greasy and corrupt.

Giving Turkey the green light to move into Syria and kill Kurds was basically allowing genocide to happen.


Then there's the more 'minor' ones:

Hiring his son-in-law and daughter.

Hiring other unqualified people who have no clue what they're doing to the point where they can't answer simple questions about their job (e.g., Betsy DeVos, Ben Carson).

The revolving door of top officials, most of whom seem like they can't wait to get out of there.

The basic inappropriateness of much of his behaviour.


All I can think of for now.

[oskar]

I think the Ukraine scandal is both wider in scope and stupidity than anyone really understands right now. There's something I almost overread in the Trump-Zelensky phonecall: Trump asking Zelensky to find the email server "because people say it's in the ukraine." I have made fun of him in the past for insisting people "find" the physical server the emails were stored on, but apparently he really thinks that people somehow smuggled it to ukraine to store it in a warehouse somewhere - ark of the covenant style, and that it's important to find it and to strongly look at all the microchips and transistors... or does he think hacking means to literally hack the server out of the server room with a hatchet and make a run for it? The intensity of his stupidity is beyond comprehension. It is relentless, unending, overwhelming stupidity.

Ukraine has been in an ongoing military conflict with Russia for a long time and relies on US assistance to fight back encroaching russian tanks at their border. If Ukraine gets annexed by russia, it opens up a new era of russian expansionism. If Ukraine falls to russia, it opens up a path to mainland europe and for a military conflict of unprecedented scope. The military aid the US is providing is an insurance policy for the entire western world against russian oligarchy. It is not a charity. This money and military assistance has been appropriated by congress for a reason.

The removal from troops from Syria is a complete and utter clusterfuck. The US is already moving troops back in as of yesterday, in fear of Isis taking over oil fields after they left their only ally in the war against Isis to die, and declared Isis defeated. Trumps removal of the troops and abandoning of the Kurds has been another gift for Russia. I don't think there's a grand conspiracy, I just think Putin and Erdogan recognize Trump for the infantile moron that he is and know how to rub his belly the right way.

[Poopadoop]

I know if Obama did even ONE of the myriad stupid/corrupt things Trump has done, the R's would be losing their shit. So no, I don't think it's the media that's making him look him bad; I think it's the facts that are making him look bad.

[wufwugy]

I know if Obama did even ONE of the myriad stupid/corrupt things Trump has done, the R's would be losing their shit.

1000% right.

So no, I don't think it's the media that's making him look him bad; I think it's the facts that are making him look bad.

Facts are a neat thing. In my experience, people (including myself) tend to only know a certain set of facts.

[wufwugy]

There are three that top the charts imo, and several that are also pretty bad

The child separation policy with immigrants was extremely callous.

The Ukraine extortion to try to get dirt on Biden was extremely greasy and corrupt.

Giving Turkey the green light to move into Syria and kill Kurds was basically allowing genocide to happen.


Then there's the more 'minor' ones:

Hiring his son-in-law and daughter.

Hiring other unqualified people who have no clue what they're doing to the point where they can't answer simple questions about their job (e.g., Betsy DeVos, Ben Carson).

The revolving door of top officials, most of whom seem like they can't wait to get out of there.

The basic inappropriateness of much of his behaviour.


All I can think of for now.

Thank you.

[wufwugy]

If anybody has a #1 or perhaps a list of top three problems of Trump, I'd love to hear it.

[wufwugy]

On policy, my #1 problem with Trump is that he hasn't done anything on healthcare/retirement.

On politics, my #1 problem is that he has losing frame on some incredibly important issues, and the country is remarkably harmed because of it. The worst of these is that the media runs rampant stoking the flames of race war with little push back. Branding them as Fake News is a big win, but that's only one step of what it will take for the media racism engine to run out of gas.

[OngBonga]

My problem with Trump is he hasn't drained the swamp like he promised.

[dwarfman3]

Given that there's just 3 or 4 active users left on FTR, why isn't the forum/site shuttered and turned into a Discord or something? Would save the server costs, and I can't imagine FTR makes any money at all from affiliate links etc anymore.

[OngBonga]

I have no idea why FTR is still active, it must bring in just enough affiliate money to cover costs. Either that or gmml really, really likes us and doesn't want to shut our little corner of the internet down.

[MadMojoMonkey]

FTR is owned by Eric, not gmml.
At least, last I heard, Eric was the original and current owner of FTR. I haven't actually had even email contact with Eric in years, though, so things could have changed since then.

gmml = givememyleg, for anyone who doesn't know who we're talking about.
He's the guy who does anything about what's posted in the FTR Announcements and Feedback forum (if anyone does anything). He's the guy who updates FTR's spam filter, too. Given the latter point, he's been active in the past years, but he rarely posts in the forums.


This site hasn't been profitable for a long, long time.

Eric never made FTR to be a profit stream. If it was, that's great. If he could employ some people in FTR's name, that's even greater.
It was never the point, though.

The point is and always was to create a community of people. So long as FTR is still a community, I suspect Eric will keep shelling out the moolah to keep it up and running.
I'd be shocked if it costs more than $5 a month to operate.


So here's a big thanks to both Eric and gmml for keeping this dinghy afloat.

[MadMojoMonkey]

If anybody has a #1 or perhaps a list of top three problems of Trump, I'd love to hear it.

The only thing I think he really screwed us over on was the gov't shutdown a while back over the budget / border wall.

I'm not saying it was exclusively his fault. I see it as a fault in the entirety of Congress and POTUS, so there's that. Still. That was incompetence fueled by childish arrogance and disregard to the consequences that would be felt almost exclusively by federal employees. Shame fingers all 'round.

I haven't heard in a while, so not sure if anything's changed, but didn't he leave a majority of our foreign diplomat appointments unfilled? As in, the US just walked away from our conversations with many foreign nations. IF true, I fear this will allow anti-US sentiment to flourish in places where we could be helping them in a way that would benefit us both, but we aren't even talking to them to know it.
IDK even what to google search for, though. I can find all kinds of stuff about Trump and international appointments. All kinds of stuff about the revolving door of people in his top staff positions, but nothing comparing the number of international diplomats from past administrations to the current.

Credit to him for the US not being in an open war at this time. ~0% chance this would be the case if Clinton had won. That's a lot more than nothing to me.

***
The Syria thing looks a whole lot like he knew full well what would happen if he pulled back the troops, and he pulled back the troops. Does that mean he caused the deaths? No. Definitely not. Even if he knew the deaths might happen, even if he knew that withdrawing our troops would make it happen... he didn't swear an oath to protect and defend the Syrians. That's not what the US military is for. It's great if they can help in that regard, but it's not what we pay them to do.


***
Purely speculative, but ... well ...

If it comes out that there was literally no reason which benefits US taxpayers to move the troops, then we have a big problem. If it comes out that Trump moved the troops to open the door for the invasion, then we have a huge problem.
The problem being that he can probably say something like, "They were mostly rapists, murderers, just the worst people," and his base will buy that. Then he literally gets away with murder because of his use of buzz words. How have we come to this?

[OngBonga]

I'm not even sure I've ever seen Eric post! I always just assumed it was gmml's thing. If Eric is paying, even just five bucks, so we we can talk shit about entropy and Brexit, then that's awesome of him. I figured there must be a trickle of income otherwise he'd just shut it down.

Black Friday killed this site as an active poker community. At first, I assumed the Americans would be back at the tables and things would recover, but sadly that didn't happen. Even now they're back (sort of) things haven't improved. 2+2 is still thriving though, so the poker community is still strong.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Yeah. Me and my gal have been re-watching High Stakes Poker from S1E1 all over again.
It's a good show. It had its technical faults, especially in the early seasons, but pointing a camera at Sammy Farha was always a good idea, among so many other greats.
"Raisy Daisy... You wanna chop it now?"
lol every time.

Gabe Kaplan is an excellent poker host, but there are others with their own styles of excellence.

Bring back TV poker and let us play on Pokerstars, and it's back on. So many gullible college fishies that think they can beat a math game when they don't even like math.

[OngBonga]

I'm getting back into poker. I've been watching a lot of Doug Polk. He annoys me a bit, but he's good. He kind of reminds me of spoon! It's all range and blockers and "sometimes we should raise, sometimes we should fold". I've also starting following courtiebee on youtube, she seems to be doing good. Not sure her channel is bringing in much, but she plays good poker and she's funny. Also been watching a lot of Mike Postle hands. That's an interesting one to look into if you've missed it. Guy is blatantly cheating but can it be proven?
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...post-1753388/?
(I can't see it being a problem linking 2+2!)
Can't wait for that to get to court.

[wufwugy]

The only thing I think he really screwed us over on was the gov't shutdown a while back over the budget / border wall.

I'm not saying it was exclusively his fault. I see it as a fault in the entirety of Congress and POTUS, so there's that. Still. That was incompetence fueled by childish arrogance and disregard to the consequences that would be felt almost exclusively by federal employees. Shame fingers all 'round.

I haven't heard in a while, so not sure if anything's changed, but didn't he leave a majority of our foreign diplomat appointments unfilled? As in, the US just walked away from our conversations with many foreign nations. IF true, I fear this will allow anti-US sentiment to flourish in places where we could be helping them in a way that would benefit us both, but we aren't even talking to them to know it.
IDK even what to google search for, though. I can find all kinds of stuff about Trump and international appointments. All kinds of stuff about the revolving door of people in his top staff positions, but nothing comparing the number of international diplomats from past administrations to the current.

Credit to him for the US not being in an open war at this time. ~0% chance this would be the case if Clinton had won. That's a lot more than nothing to me.

***
The Syria thing looks a whole lot like he knew full well what would happen if he pulled back the troops, and he pulled back the troops. Does that mean he caused the deaths? No. Definitely not. Even if he knew the deaths might happen, even if he knew that withdrawing our troops would make it happen... he didn't swear an oath to protect and defend the Syrians. That's not what the US military is for. It's great if they can help in that regard, but it's not what we pay them to do.


***
Purely speculative, but ... well ...

If it comes out that there was literally no reason which benefits US taxpayers to move the troops, then we have a big problem. If it comes out that Trump moved the troops to open the door for the invasion, then we have a huge problem.
The problem being that he can probably say something like, "They were mostly rapists, murderers, just the worst people," and his base will buy that. Then he literally gets away with murder because of his use of buzz words. How have we come to this?

Thank you for your levelheadedness.

[dwarfman3]

FTR is still a community

Is 3 or 4 people sharing Trump propaganda and the like once or twice a day a community?

Black Friday killed this site as an active poker community. 2+2 is still thriving though, so the poker community is still strong.

Ergo, something other than Black Friday contributed to killing FTR (since 2+2 survived it). A community is made by its participants.....

[MadMojoMonkey]

Is 3 or 4 people sharing Trump propaganda and the like once or twice a day a community?

Yes. I think you mean Trump bashing, though.

More than that goes on, here.
Did you miss my complete derivation of the Planck Length in the Randomness thread last week?
I'm still happy to field any questions on the subject, or any other physics topic. It's been a while since anyone bumped the physics monkey thread, but... well... like you've pointed out, the site is so dead that it doesn't seem worth it to keep more than a couple threads active, so I've kinda just moved the physics topics to the random thread.

Ergo, something other than Black Friday contributed to killing FTR (since 2+2 survived it). A community is made by its participants.....

IDK. We had a ton of active members up to Black Friday.
2+2 was always a more toxic community than FTR. The idea that FTR was too toxic to maintain a membership base is almost certainly incorrect.

After BF, the FTR community slowly faded to what it is today. We don't even talk poker anymore, and haven't for years, now, so it's no wonder that the site isn't growing.

We tried to prevent the decline so hard, too. Eric was getting affiliate deals with just about any poker site that he could. He was setting up sponsored online events, and hiring people to expand the FTR site. gmml added the Chinese poker app about that time. We even held an AMA with Daniel Negreanu. Epic times... just too late.

It just wasn't enough.

IDK how 2+2 managed to stay afloat through that, but they were always orders of magnitude bigger than FTR, and maybe size alone allowed them to retain presence through the decline.

Maybe it's something else.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm getting back into poker.

Here's another suggestion for YouTube poker.

Finding Equilibrium

I almost forgot about this one. I watched his first few videos a few months ago, but then forgot about them until I read your post.

[OngBonga]

Mojo beat me to it. 2+2 had the numbers to survive. I'm sure BF hit 2+2 too, but it didn't kill it.

Thanks for the rec, mojo, will check that out.

[oskar]

[Poopadoop]

Are they praying he finds his brain?

[oskar]

I am rarely that literally at loss for words. I don't know what they think they're doing, what they think they're accomplishing, why they think this is a good look and why this is then posted on the official whitehouse.gov page.


This one's still bizarre but it's explicable:



They ldo didn't want him in the situation room during the Baghdadi raid, so they organized a photo op to make it look like he did something, and during the photo op he asked an intern to pull the Ethernet cables out of the trunking because he thinks that makes it look more sophisticated. Nobody cared enough to object.