Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
Is this even still a thing? Collusion happens, it's perfectly normal, and both sides are "guilty" of this.
No collusion is not normal.

What is normal, is one nation making efforts to influence political outcomes in another nation. The vocabulatory consensus (a term I just made up) is that this describes "meddling". "Collusion" is something else. That would be one a candidate gets an advantage in the election from another government, in exchange for some kind of commitment to put that foreign government's concerns above your own.

That is EXTRA fucking bad, and it's most definitely not normal.

As for the "meddling", USA are the most guilty nation in the world when it comes to meddling with other nations' affairs.
So? If it bothers you, do something about it. In the meantime, that doesn't mean that anyone who does it to us should get a pass. You seem to be applying a schoolyard standard of fairness to geopolitical affairs. Cmon Ong, it's grown-up time.

And anyone who still talks about the Russians as though they "hacked" the election, these are the people who are desperate.
Eh...it's 50/50.

The most offensive of Russia's actions involved "hacking" of the DNC. That charge is proven true. It's also highly suspected, but not definitively proven, that the Russian's hacked John Podesta's email. So the word "hack" isn't totally offisides here.

However, almost everyone who says it, is using it in a context that suggests Russia's efforts affected the outcome of the election. Furthermore, there is usually an insinuation that the election result, and Trump's presidency, is invalid.