*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

[MadMojoMonkey]

Of course I can see the moral difference. But what's the legal difference? Maybe I want to use the women's toilets because some dodgy looking guys just went into the men's, I might not be going in to perv. And any woman who thinks I might be there to perv is being a bigot.

Often the legal difference has to do with actual harm being caused.
Not perceived harm. I'm talking endangering health and safety.
Or that a reasonable person would say expressed a reckless disregard for the health and safety of others.

Being a woman (trans or otherwise) in a women's room isn't that.

Note: in this example, you're the one who doesn't want to use a restroom based on some perceived threat of "dodgy-looking men."
Your argument would be equivalent to you going up to the management and complaining that dodgy-looking men do not have the right to use the men's room, and you demand they be expelled from the space you're entitled to.
It's a BS argument.

This is what I don't understand. How a woman who has a problem with this is a bigot. Her reason for being uncomfortable might not be motivated by hate. I consider her objections reasonable.

If seeing someone just being in a place causes you to be offended - not them behaving in any way that is threatening or malicious - and you're only explanation for why you're offended is irrational fear on your part, then that's bigotry. Especially when your assumption is that trans = threat to health and/or safety. You can choose to live a lie and pretend that what you're doing isn't driven by hate, fear, ignorance, and entitlement... and I can't stop that. It is your choice. I will not humor the consequences of your self-destructive choice and elevate that into causing actual oppression of someone who is just being themselves.

Insisting that a person is not some gender because they weren't always that gender is malicious.
It's scientifically false to assert gender is either binary or not fluid. Insisting otherwise isn't rational.
Insisting your irrational, false beliefs mean you get to oppress someone is, in fact, often criminal.

Calling a trans person by their dead gender is malicious.
You don't get to decide what gender someone is. They do.
They can change their mind, or have a fluid gender identity.
That's humans being humans.
Telling humans they aren't humans with the same rights as other humans is immoral.

We're trusting people to be honest. I don't see how this works.

It's called a society, ong.

I don't want to keep oppressing people. I want solutions that works for everyone, including women who don't want to shar their spaces with men who self identify as women. Forcing that on these women, that's oppression.

Your entire argument is predicated on guessing someone's gender by looking at them.
It's stupid, and I don't understand what you're arguing for.
Do you want people to show a gender ID card in order to use a restroom? How are people meant to be identified in a legal sense, here?
Do you want people to be required to flash their genitals to someone in order to be confirmed for the appropriate pee room?
It makes no sense to me.

You can't tell someone's gender by looking at them unless they want you to. Gender is a social construct and you can choose to present strongly or weakly on whatever side you like. That's you, your style, your chutzpah lighting up the world.
You can present feminine, and be a man. Or you can present feminine and be a woman. Or you can present masculine and be a man or a woman. Or any combination thereof. It's a continuum of human identity and personal expression. People are people doing people things.

Well I don't know about USA but if you're a bar manager in the UK and you're stupid enough to tell someone they are not welcome because they are black, then you're in for a whole world of pain, both real world and legally. You can refuse to serve anyone for almost any reason, but race certainly is not one of them. If you're a racist asshole that doesn't want to break the law, you can refuse to serve a black person for being rude to a customer, even if he wasn't. You can make up bullshit, but you definitely don't say it's because they're black. And if you're regularly making up bullshit excuses to not serve black people, then it's all going to unravel sooner or later.

That applies to any protected group under the discrimination act, including trans people.

I'm not sure you understand the word private. A private club can exclude blacks. The KKK is a private club.