*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

[oskar]

Even by your own narrow reasoning for why certain people shouldn't have freedom of movement, your argument stops holding up once you look at the bottom line of how much immigrants pay into the system vs how much they take out.
I can't quickly find a statistic that filters for scary brown people countries, but as a whole immigrants contribute massively more than they take out: https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-...9-00144feabdc0

You're basically saying: I don't care that they pay x billions into the system if they then have the audacity to benefit from the service they pay for with their taxes!

[OngBonga]

Even by your own narrow reasoning for why certain people shouldn't have freedom of movement, your argument stops holding up once you look at the bottom line of how much immigrants pay into the system vs how much they take out.
I can't quickly find a statistic that filters for scary brown people countries, but as a whole immigrants contribute massively more than they take out: https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-...9-00144feabdc0

You're basically saying: I don't care that they pay x billions into the system if they then have the audacity to benefit from the service they pay for with their taxes!

So you're arguing that because immigrant #1 comes here, works, pays taxes and contributes to society, that immigrants #2 and #3 can come here and do nothing.

My problem is not with people who emigrate legally and with good intent, and then fall on hard times. I'm not saying these people should not have access to the welfare system. I'm saying we should not encourage people to come here for the sole reason of accessing our welfare system. I don't know why you pretend that's such a difficult concept to understand. You deliberately use language like "scary brown people countries" to imply that this is about racism, when that isn't true at all. I don't even think you're being insincere, I think your brain is just hard wired to believe that any opposition to immigration is racism, whether overt or covert.

I know immigrants as a whole contribute to society. That's why I don't oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration and the importing of large numbers of unskilled people.

[oskar]

So you're arguing that because immigrant #1 comes here, works, pays taxes and contributes to society, that immigrants #2 and #3 can come here and do nothing.

My problem is not with people who emigrate legally and with good intent, and then fall on hard times. I'm not saying these people should not have access to the welfare system. I'm saying we should not encourage people to come here for the sole reason of accessing our welfare system. I don't know why you pretend that's such a difficult concept to understand. You deliberately use language like "scary brown people countries" to imply that this is about racism, when that isn't true at all. I don't even think you're being insincere, I think your brain is just hard wired to believe that any opposition to immigration is racism, whether overt or covert.

I know immigrants as a whole contribute to society. That's why I don't oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration and the importing of large numbers of unskilled people.

Sometimes you pay into a system, sometimes you take out of it. Unless you can figure out some kind of Minority Report Precog system, you're not going to know who's going to be profitable and who's not, but the bottom line is: immigrants are a net positive to the economy. The bureaucracy required to sort the maximally profitable is likely completely uneconomical even if you ignore the ethical problems.

I feel dirty even arguing this because I think people shouldn't be bound to serve capital interests at all. Everyone should get some form of UBI and be free to do whatever they want, because what they want to do is much more likely going to improve their standard of living and the standard of living of their community than if they were to serve the interests of a company that serves its own capital interests and not the people's interests.
So I don't give a shit if immigrants are good for the fiscal bottom line, but it happens that they are.

[Poopadoop]

Sometimes you pay into a system, sometimes you take out of it. Unless you can figure out some kind of Minority Report Precog system, you're not going to know who's going to be profitable and who's not, but the bottom line is: immigrants are a net positive to the economy. The bureaucracy required to sort the maximally profitable is likely completely uneconomical even if you ignore the ethical problems.

I feel dirty even arguing this because I think people shouldn't be bound to serve capital interests at all. Everyone should get some form of UBI and be free to do whatever they want, because what they want to do is much more likely going to improve their standard of living and the standard of living of their community than if they were to serve the interests of a company that serves its own capital interests and not the people's interests.
So I don't give a shit if immigrants are good for the fiscal bottom line, but it happens that they are.

Over and above all this is the fact that he hasn't explained how leaving the EU will solve the problem he perceives to exist with all these lazy immigrants. I think he believes that currently anyone in the EU can just show up in the UK and stay as long as they want and not work and the EU forces us to not only accept that, but pay them to do nothing as well.