mosque at ground zero.

[kevster]

Some comment from this side of the pond - Charlie Brooker | 'Ground Zero mosque'? The reality is less provocative | Comment is free | The Guardian

[spoonitnow]

Some comment from this side of the pond - Charlie Brooker | 'Ground Zero mosque'? The reality is less provocative | Comment is free | The Guardian

That was hilarious.

[Monsieur_chat]

That was hilarious.

That's because Charlie Brooker is the daddeh.

[kevster]

That's because Charlie Brooker is the daddeh.

Yep. Charlie Brooker FTW.

[Deuce Blue]

Location matters. Ground zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history -- perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.


Of course that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi -- yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

That's why Disney's early '90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War. It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive

And why Pope John Paul II ordered the Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Quite honestly, the radicals that actually strap on the vest and blow people up may be few but I really am tired of the poor, mistreated muslim talk. The religion of Islam is far from accepting and loving.

One must look with open eyes at the religion itself. The principal mosque in Rome has a surface area of 30,000 square meters and can hold thousands of believers. The Christian church of Mecca has a surface area of zero square meters and can hold zero believers. In fact, there is no Christian church in Mecca. In other words, Rome is an open city and Mecca is a closed city.

There has never been opposition by Muslims to the exclusive character of Mecca. Their main sanctuary is located there, and it is forbidden for non-believers to cross the city limits. No other sanctuary of any world religion is closed to members of different creeds. The Western Wall in Jerusalem, the Jews’ holiest site, can be visited by anyone — Muslims, Christians, or Buddhists. The Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the center of the Roman Catholic religion, is open to any person that wishes to visit its splendor. Hindu and Buddhist temples welcome anyone who walks in, but not the Muslims’ main mosque.

Muslims claim that their religion contains the final message of God and that all other religions express falsehoods, lies, and distortions — which means that adherents to other religions cannot be accepted as equal human beings with the same rights. Churches are banned in Saudi Arabia. In “modern” Turkey, it is, in reality, impossible to renovate an old Christian church, let alone create one. In a traditional Islamic country, adherents of different religions who refuse to accept Muhammad as their prophet have to live a life with restrictions and special rules. They are the so-called “dhimmis” — people who believe in a single God but who should be treated with special restrictions because of their refusal to follow the prophet Muhammad.

All I am saying is let's not paint Islam as a model of peace and understanding. They aren't Buddihist for God's sake.

[a500lbgorilla]

Location matters. Ground zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history -- perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.


Of course that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi -- yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

That's why Disney's early '90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War. It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive

And why Pope John Paul II ordered the Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Quite honestly, the radicals that actually strap on the vest and blow people up may be few but I really am tired of the poor, mistreated muslim talk. The religion of Islam is far from accepting and loving.

One must look with open eyes at the religion itself. The principal mosque in Rome has a surface area of 30,000 square meters and can hold thousands of believers. The Christian church of Mecca has a surface area of zero square meters and can hold zero believers. In fact, there is no Christian church in Mecca. In other words, Rome is an open city and Mecca is a closed city.

There has never been opposition by Muslims to the exclusive character of Mecca. Their main sanctuary is located there, and it is forbidden for non-believers to cross the city limits. No other sanctuary of any world religion is closed to members of different creeds. The Western Wall in Jerusalem, the Jews’ holiest site, can be visited by anyone — Muslims, Christians, or Buddhists. The Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the center of the Roman Catholic religion, is open to any person that wishes to visit its splendor. Hindu and Buddhist temples welcome anyone who walks in, but not the Muslims’ main mosque.

Muslims claim that their religion contains the final message of God and that all other religions express falsehoods, lies, and distortions — which means that adherents to other religions cannot be accepted as equal human beings with the same rights. Churches are banned in Saudi Arabia. In “modern” Turkey, it is, in reality, impossible to renovate an old Christian church, let alone create one. In a traditional Islamic country, adherents of different religions who refuse to accept Muhammad as their prophet have to live a life with restrictions and special rules. They are the so-called “dhimmis” — people who believe in a single God but who should be treated with special restrictions because of their refusal to follow the prophet Muhammad.

All I am saying is let's not paint Islam as a model of peace and understanding. They aren't Buddihist for God's sake.

"well this is America, damnit, and we subject ourselves to higher standards than that of Islam dominated countries."

[Deuce Blue]

I am far from trying to use an eye for an eye argument. The Muslims have mosqes all over New York City. They even have one close enough now to be considered in whatever the "ground zero" range is. No one is trying to stop them from building the center. Many just feel a 13 story Muslim cultural center is just a little in the face. Some of that may have to do with the man behind it.

A man that said shortly after the 9/11 attacks:"I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened,” and who has refused to recognize Hamas or Hezbollah as terrorist organizations. Also the originally planned name of The Cordoba House as it relates to Muslim history set the tone for the victory mosque debate. We must come to understand its inferred meaning and to do that we must understand a period of violent Muslim aggression, circa 711AD, that established the Emirate and Caliphate of Cordoba.

Now all this being said I have no hatred of Muslim people or the religion of Islam. But the problem is the so-called moderate Muslims from around the world react to the horrors of terrorism perpetrated in the name of their religion and through the hands of barbarians with grotesque indifference. And, instead of taking the lead in expunging radical elements from within their own religious community, instead of calling for a reformation of the Islamic religion to exclude all violent, anti-Semitic and dominant language in an effort to embrace the peaceful tenets of the Islamic dogma, so-called moderate Muslims do nothing but hide behind the disingenuous spin of organizations run by closeted fundamentalists like the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Lets take this to another level. Lets say the Westboro Baptist Church wanted to open a new church at ground zero. Now I know a good many would shout that idea into the ground because they are nothing but a hate group operating under a perverted image of religion.And I really doubt I would hear all this talk of discrimination and religious freedom. Well folks, its about time the moderate Muslims step up to the plate and do the same with with the radical element in their midst.

If the true effort of this is to bridge the gap and heal and all that jazz yet so many people find this offensive (right or wrong as that might be), why not just let it drop. Build elswhere. Because I hate to tell you folks this isn't bringing anyone closer together.

I cannot find fault in people that lost loved ones not wanting a mosque that close to ground zero when the man in charge of the project (and millions of so called moderate Muslims) will not stand up and condemn the evil that is radical Islam.

[triumphant cracker]

Location matters. Ground zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history -- perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.


Of course that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi -- yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

That's why Disney's early '90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War. It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive

And why Pope John Paul II ordered the Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Quite honestly, the radicals that actually strap on the vest and blow people up may be few but I really am tired of the poor, mistreated muslim talk. The religion of Islam is far from accepting and loving.

One must look with open eyes at the religion itself. The principal mosque in Rome has a surface area of 30,000 square meters and can hold thousands of believers. The Christian church of Mecca has a surface area of zero square meters and can hold zero believers. In fact, there is no Christian church in Mecca. In other words, Rome is an open city and Mecca is a closed city.

There has never been opposition by Muslims to the exclusive character of Mecca. Their main sanctuary is located there, and it is forbidden for non-believers to cross the city limits. No other sanctuary of any world religion is closed to members of different creeds. The Western Wall in Jerusalem, the Jews’ holiest site, can be visited by anyone — Muslims, Christians, or Buddhists. The Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the center of the Roman Catholic religion, is open to any person that wishes to visit its splendor. Hindu and Buddhist temples welcome anyone who walks in, but not the Muslims’ main mosque.

Muslims claim that their religion contains the final message of God and that all other religions express falsehoods, lies, and distortions — which means that adherents to other religions cannot be accepted as equal human beings with the same rights. Churches are banned in Saudi Arabia. In “modern” Turkey, it is, in reality, impossible to renovate an old Christian church, let alone create one. In a traditional Islamic country, adherents of different religions who refuse to accept Muhammad as their prophet have to live a life with restrictions and special rules. They are the so-called “dhimmis” — people who believe in a single God but who should be treated with special restrictions because of their refusal to follow the prophet Muhammad.

All I am saying is let's not paint Islam as a model of peace and understanding. They aren't Buddihist for God's sake.

And...he said it better than me. kudos.