Liberal or Conservative

[Lukie]

Very simple.. which most accurately reflects your political views?

[Spanners]

Liberal, but us Noo-Zeelanders are pretty weird so I wouldnt trust a word I say.

[Demiparadigm]

Understand that "liberal" means something different politically in each country.

There is very little difference between the US Democratic Party and the Canadian conservatives.

In fact there is very little difference between the US Democratic Party and the Republican party.

Whereas terms like "left wing" and "right wing" mean something completely different in different parts of the world.

Stalin was a left wing liberal.
Hitler was kinda right wing. About as much as Bush.

You also need to consider Social and Economic views, as they are definitely separate as far as "liberal" and "conservative" go.

Lastly, look what I found with the search function:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=13351

[a500lbgorilla]

Obviously, I'm a 'tweener. Voted republican. And will lean republican in the next election but I swing, baby.

-'rilla

[drdeutsch]

What if none of the three accurately reflects our views?

That being said, as each day goes by, I'm moving further left.

[Sed]

I'm a 'tweener but I swing, baby.

-'rilla

hmmmm....

[Rondavu]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

[biondino]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

Your eyes will melt, for a start.

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

[Rondavu]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

Your eyes will melt, for a start.

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

Shut it Hippy. Democrats are closer to communist than Republicans

[siknd]

im Cdn, so i stoppd voting/ caring long ago.

[soupie]

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

Is this really a part of this site? If the mods and owners dont flex some serious muscle soon, you are going to see a mass exodus of membership.

This is absolutely out of bounds.

[Rondavu]

Just a couple little Ayn Rand tidbits. After reading you'll know why Democrats HATE Ayn Rand.

"Altruism declares that any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one's own benefit is evil. Thus the beneficiary of an action is the only criterion of moral value – and so long as that beneficiary is anybody than oneself, anything goes."

"If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject."

The only thing I have against Republicans is the religious aspect, since I'm athiest.

[a500lbgorilla]

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

Is this really a part of this site? If the mods and owners dont flex some serious muscle soon, you are going to see a mass exodus of membership.

This is absolutely out of bounds.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, soupie. I'm tired of being the big bad censorship monkey.

[journey075]

traditional conservative.

what bush is doing is ruining the ideals of the republican party and is alienating a large demographic. what happened to pre-2000 conservative ideals ..

[Sed]

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, soupie. I'm tired of being the big bad censorship monkey.

Each persion is entitled to their opinions but but everyone here is entitled to hearing them expressed in an appropriate manner... that was not.

- sed

[siknd]

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, soupie. I'm tired of being the big bad censorship monkey.

Each persion is entitled to their opinions but but everyone here is entitled to hearing them expressed in an appropriate manner... that was not.

- sed

... in your opinion.

[Sed]

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, soupie. I'm tired of being the big bad censorship monkey.

Each persion is entitled to their opinions but but everyone here is entitled to hearing them expressed in an appropriate manner... that was not.

- sed

... in your opinion.

but I expressed it in an appropriate manner....

- sed

[BoondockSaint]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

Your eyes will melt, for a start.

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

i voted republican bitch - suck it

[boost]

I voted democrat, but Im not a democrat. I am a liberal, I think theres a huge difference. A democrat or a republican to me is someone who doesnt have a brain of thier own. People who align themselves with these groups just seem utterly brainwashed to me. Have you ever had a 'discussion' with either? All they say is mindless catch phrases from witch ever campaign they are sided with. I just really cant imagine how any person can agree 100% with either party and not be brainwashed. So either you are blinded by the flash and glitter presented by the side you voted for, or you are voting for the better of two evils. And thats a sad thing. Hopefully this will change one day.


Oh and I just want to make a statement about the simple and basic principles of taxes. If everyone is getting taxed a greater percent of thier income, then they all get less money. However all goods and services therefore drop in price. And the value of the US dollar rises. So no ones taking more money from you actaully, becaues the money you are left with is worth that much more. So one might say, wahts the difference? Well the difference is old people dont end up homeless or in 'nursing' homes that have atrotious conidtions. People that are bleeding are not turned down at E.R.'s because they dont have insurance. The average person is not going to need that 100,000$ operation, however when one does, they can get it, and it wont financially ruin them and thier family. And last but not least, we can fucking pay our soldiers properly, if and when we need to go to war for a just cause.

So stop fucking voting for tax breaks, its the most ass backwards thing you can do, and it helps no one but hte super rich, so why are so many people doing it!? Please stop the hypocracy, its sick.

[Lukie]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

Your eyes will melt, for a start.

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

I voted Republican. Barring a dramatic shift in the policy by democrats, I will vote Republican come next election as well.

I have nothing against those who vote Democrat.. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Instead of attacking you for your views, I will just allow everyone to see the ignorance in your statement. That is all.

[Laeelin]

If you want to read about a smart tax system do some reading here ...

http://www.fairtax.org

Also, i'm Conservative, but sad to say, there is no consertive party anymore... (Republican is much better than the other, but it's sure not conservative anymore... I find myself voting more and more libertarin)

<-- British libertarian.

[Lukie]

Understand that "liberal" means something different politically in each country.

There is very little difference between the US Democratic Party and the Canadian conservatives.

In fact there is very little difference between the US Democratic Party and the Republican party.

Whereas terms like "left wing" and "right wing" mean something completely different in different parts of the world.

Stalin was a left wing liberal.
Hitler was kinda right wing. About as much as Bush.

You also need to consider Social and Economic views, as they are definitely separate as far as "liberal" and "conservative" go.

Lastly, look what I found with the search function:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=13351

Good points.. I was originally going to make it a U.S. thread with dem/rep/'tweener but decided to just make it liberal/conservative instead. I guess in this instance, it would really depend on your definition of liberal and conservative.

[Laeelin]

If everyone is getting taxed a greater percent of thier income, then they all get less money. However all goods and services therefore drop in price. And the value of the US dollar rises. So no ones taking more money from you actaully, becaues the money you are left with is worth that much more.

umm, no thats not true at all.

Edit: I'll give you a hint as to why it's deeply flawed... the cost of running a business drops much less than the drop in money supply. That plan is how you cause a huge depression with 90% of the population out of work.

[a500lbgorilla]

<-- British libertarian.

Finally someone we can all hate!

[Laeelin]

what? is he a Jew?!?!?

(totally joking naturally)

[Miffed22001]

Stalin was a left wing liberal.
Hitler was kinda right wing. About as much as Bush

Kinda right wing?!?!?!
Bush is a staunch right winger yes, but hitler is off the scale man!

As for me i happen to be left-winger, although only marginally but im very much against organised religious stength and ethnic group stength which makes me radical, but im not really. i just study all the bullshit and rhetoric these guys sprout even though they are ALL right wingers.

[ensign_lee]

Conservative.

[boost]

If everyone is getting taxed a greater percent of thier income, then they all get less money. However all goods and services therefore drop in price. And the value of the US dollar rises. So no ones taking more money from you actaully, becaues the money you are left with is worth that much more.

umm, no thats not true at all.

Edit: I'll give you a hint as to why it's deeply flawed... the cost of running a business drops much less than the drop in money supply. That plan is how you cause a huge depression with 90% of the population out of work.

Yes Im not a economicalologistical engineer, so its not that cut and dry. Theres obviously more to it then that. So of course we are not gonna all of the sudden start taxing 75% of peoples income. And to compensate for this there can be programs setup to help business oweners even more. The thing is, high taxation is sucessfully put into practice, and it doesnt make the poor people poorer. However thats what the general thought process seems to be of poor people in this country. So pretty much, the simple fact is that cutting taxes is NOT the way to solve problems in this country, its the way to sucker ignorant poor people into voting for you.

And thanks for the link, when I get the chance Ill take a look at it.

[boost]

Oh, and one more thing is oil and the fact that its running out. This is a huge problem, yet neither party seems to know about it and / or care. There is very little public awareness. Most people are under the impression that we can go on guzzling gas for the next 200 years with out a problem. Even if this where to be the truth, now would be the time to start switching over to another energy source. And also people dont understand that we will never run out of oil, because the world infrastructure will crumble before we can suck the last reserves dry. We are not just talking about gas for your car, but products like plastics, something that we currently cant live without. And something that every other current and prospective energy source needs to be harnessed in the quantities we need.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is a pretty big deal, and everyone seems to just brush it off. Problems like this are what governments should busy themselves with, not trying to colonize the middle east :-\

[Lukie]

Oh, and one more thing is oil and the fact that its running out. This is a huge problem, yet neither party seems to know about it and / or care. There is very little public awareness. Most people are under the impression that we can go on guzzling gas for the next 200 years with out a problem. Even if this where to be the truth, now would be the time to start switching over to another energy source. And also people dont understand that we will never run out of oil, because the world infrastructure will crumble before we can suck the last reserves dry. We are not just talking about gas for your car, but products like plastics, something that we currently cant live without. And something that every other current and prospective energy source needs to be harnessed in the quantities we need.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is a pretty big deal, and everyone seems to just brush it off. Problems like this are what governments should busy themselves with, not trying to colonize the middle east :-\

Do you see the irony in your statement?

[boost]

no? Is it ironic because theres oil in the middle east? If thats waht you mean, well if we have it or they ahve it or we buy it from them or whatever... it still hits its peak and the global infrastructure falls apart. So unless you meant something else, I dont see much irony.

[Toad13]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

Your eyes will melt, for a start.

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

Anyone that votes republican that is between the ages of 30 and 40 are Ronald Reagan era young adults/teens. The same thing will happen with the Clinton years.

[Toad13]

So stop fucking voting for tax breaks, its the most ass backwards thing you can do, and it helps no one but hte super rich, so why are so many people doing it!? Please stop the hypocracy, its sick.

Which would you like to be super rich or just making it.
If you can get everything you need from the goverment and not need to work for it then where will the goverment get there tax money?

[ilikeaces86]

Boost your whole argument would be true if you believed that the government did a better job of managing your $ then you could do yourself. The government does a terrible job when it comes to using tax dollars what makes you think that they are better off with your money than you? It is better for consumer to keep the $ and grow the economy by purchasing goods and services.

[Lukie]

So stop fucking voting for tax breaks, its the most ass backwards thing you can do, and it helps no one but hte super rich, so why are so many people doing it!? Please stop the hypocracy, its sick.

Which would you like to be super rich or just making it.
If you can get everything you need from the goverment and not need to work for it then where will the goverment get there tax money?

I agree whole-heartedly. If people are given everything they need, there is no motivation for them to be successful.

boostnslide.. I would like to hear your argument that tax-breaks only help the super rich, EVEN IF only the super-rich receive those tax breaks.

I would hate to insult your intelligence by reciting basic economic theory such as the trickle down effect.

[Lukie]

Boost your whole argument would be true if you believed that the government did a better job of managing your $ then you could do yourself. The government does a terrible job when it comes to using tax dollars what makes you think that they are better off with your money than you? It is better for consumer to keep the $ and grow the economy by purchasing goods and services.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Government lacks the competition to make government spending successful. In private firms there is motivation.. generally the pursuit of profit which......... nevermind, either you believe it or you don't.

[Pingviini]

ilikeaces86, the point of taxes is to provide public services and infrastructure and to balance the wealth and the well being also giving chance to live to the poor as well. Not to use your money for you. I do not enjoy paying big taxes especially because I will be most likely earning more than average after I graduate but I can understand the high taxes especially when my poor ass got educated from 1st class to my master's, for free, including food. It is true that consumer consumption is what keeps the wheels rolling especially in the US but you can also see the downsides of A country getting divided to people who succeed and to people who dont. Lots of anger, hatred, crimes and violence. And I am not talking about just US here, there are lots of places where the difference is even bigger. Therefore in my opinion some kind of a system to at least make it possible to actually have a life of some sort to the people who have trouble is required, for the people with less and for the overall well being.

[boost]

Youre counter arguement makes no sense. Im not talking about communism, Im talking about higher taxes so we can have a real health care system. We are the richest nation on earth, and our old and sick are being tossed aside. For what? to give the consumer more money to boost the economy? Just because a person doesnt have to worry about financial ruin due to some unforseen illness doesn not mean they wont want a new sports car, or the latest greatest tech gadget. Your reasoning is just completely retarded. Im not trying to flame, Im just saying, it makes no sense. This is not something that can happen over night, I know, things need to change slowly, otherewise it would be too much of a shock.

And yes, our government does suck at spending our money, however with drastic reforms, that could be different. Yes I know this stuff takes time, unless of course theres a revolution. Unfortunately those tend to be bloody, and we all know war is bad-- we all do know this right?

[boost]

yes but Im not saying that we give everyone everything. Jesus its like everyone is so retarded. You are painting me as a full blown fucking communist. Its like the idea of something anywhere inbetween is completely wrong to you. If you cant see that capitalism is good, but still inherantly flawed, then you are blind.

Like, dont you understand that its simple fact that a married couple working on minimum wage supporting two kids, cannot afford a doctors appointment. Muchless afford to pay for anything that might go wrong with any one of the four members of their family. If these people have free medicare, do you really think they will stop consuming? Do you really think they wont buy toys for thier two kids for xmas? Do you really think theyll stop eating?

Im sorry but, either Im alone in my line of thought or no one else is stepping up to the plate, and Im not going to carry on 5 arguemetns at once all on my own.

I dont want to live in 20th century russia, I love where I live, but I think things can change for the better, yet they seem to keep drifting towards the negative.

Anyways, like I wa saying before, this is my last post, good day.

[Pingviini]

Boost you should come to live in Skandinavia, you sound pretty much skandinavian democratic politician to me

[boost]

just now saw pings post, spot on my freind. thanks

[Laeelin]

yes but Im not saying that we give everyone everything. Jesus its like everyone is so retarded. You are painting me as a full blown fucking communist. Its like the idea of something anywhere inbetween is completely wrong to you. If you cant see that capitalism is good, but still inherantly flawed, then you are blind.

Capitalism is not inherantly flawed. It's the system that works (by far) the best. It's the system that allows everyone that is willing to work the ability to live well.

Like, dont you understand that its simple fact that a married couple working on minimum wage supporting two kids,

Minimum wage??!??! Minimum wage if for people that cant make 2 weeks without skipping a day of work. Minimum wage isnt for supoprting a family, and ANYONE can make a lot more than that. If your married couple is working at minimum wage, then they are also not willing to work. Clean houses on the side for 3 times minimum wage. Drive a truck for 3 times minimum wage. Answer the phone for three times minimum wage, There is no shortage of jobs that pay a lot more than minimum wage AND need no special skills to do. You just need to actually be willing to work and show up on time.

Minimum wage was NEVER for raising a family.

cannot afford a doctors appointment. Muchless afford to pay for anything that might go wrong with any one of the four members of their family.

Cant afford a Dr. appointment? Sure they can, and it's even free! My wife and i did even right after we lost everything. Thats what welfare is there for.

not only that, but ANYONE can get treated at a hospital. Sure they want insurance, but if you dont have it, they will still treat you. If you tell them you dont have any insurance, any money, any ID, and are homeless, they STILL cant turn you away if you need help.

You can even call 911 from a payphone to send someone to pick you up and take you there.

Im sorry but, either Im alone in my line of thought or no one else is stepping up to the plate, and Im not going to carry on 5 arguemetns at once all on my own.

your not alone, your just not thinking it through.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but try being poor sometimes. It really opens your eyes up to how just a little work and effort can change you from poor back to middle class.

I dont want to live in 20th century russia, I love where I live, but I think things can change for the better, yet they seem to keep drifting towards the negative.

Anyways, like I wa saying before, this is my last post, good day.

you feel this way because you have never actually saw/lived in whats bad. We have it so good that we dont even know whats bad anymore.

In america, even the poor live so well that there is little reason to improve your life. Thats the real reason most that are poor stay poor.

Dont missunderstand me though, there are a few that dont have a choice, but it's VERY few, and even they are well taken care of.

[vqc]

yes but Im not saying that we give everyone everything. Jesus its like everyone is so retarded. You are painting me as a full blown fucking communist. Its like the idea of something anywhere inbetween is completely wrong to you. If you cant see that capitalism is good, but still inherantly flawed, then you are blind.

Capitalism is not inherantly flawed. It's the system that works (by far) the best. It's the system that allows everyone that is willing to work the ability to live well.

Like, dont you understand that its simple fact that a married couple working on minimum wage supporting two kids,

Minimum wage??!??! Minimum wage if for people that cant make 2 weeks without skipping a day of work. Minimum wage isnt for supoprting a family, and ANYONE can make a lot more than that. If your married couple is working at minimum wage, then they are also not willing to work. Clean houses on the side for 3 times minimum wage. Drive a truck for 3 times minimum wage. Answer the phone for three times minimum wage, There is no shortage of jobs that pay a lot more than minimum wage AND need no special skills to do. You just need to actually be willing to work and show up on time.

Minimum wage was NEVER for raising a family.

cannot afford a doctors appointment. Muchless afford to pay for anything that might go wrong with any one of the four members of their family.

Cant afford a Dr. appointment? Sure they can, and it's even free! My wife and i did even right after we lost everything. Thats what welfare is there for.

not only that, but ANYONE can get treated at a hospital. Sure they want insurance, but if you dont have it, they will still treat you. If you tell them you dont have any insurance, any money, any ID, and are homeless, they STILL cant turn you away if you need help.

You can even call 911 from a payphone to send someone to pick you up and take you there.

Im sorry but, either Im alone in my line of thought or no one else is stepping up to the plate, and Im not going to carry on 5 arguemetns at once all on my own.

your not alone, your just not thinking it through.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but try being poor sometimes. It really opens your eyes up to how just a little work and effort can change you from poor back to middle class.

I dont want to live in 20th century russia, I love where I live, but I think things can change for the better, yet they seem to keep drifting towards the negative.

Anyways, like I wa saying before, this is my last post, good day.

you feel this way because you have never actually saw/lived in whats bad. We have it so good that we dont even know whats bad anymore.

In america, even the poor live so well that there is little reason to improve your life. Thats the real reason most that are poor stay poor.

Dont missunderstand me though, there are a few that dont have a choice, but it's VERY few, and even they are well taken care of.

Dont assume Boosts' families' financial situation. Or his for that matter.

[scgolfer]

I dont see anywhere where he questioned boost or his families situation. He questioned his thinking but nothing else.

[vqc]

I dont see anywhere where he questioned boost or his families situation. He questioned his thinking but nothing else.

Im sorry did I come off a little assholish in my post? =(
DIdnt meant too.

this is the part im referring to.
"I'm not trying to be offensive, but try being poor sometimes. It really opens your eyes up to how just a little work and effort can change you from poor back to middle class. "

[Laeelin]

this is the part im referring to.
"I'm not trying to be offensive, but try being poor sometimes. It really opens your eyes up to how just a little work and effort can change you from poor back to middle class. "

I guess in a way i'm making an assumption, but it's a very very reasonable one.

I dont think he has a 24-hour libary with a free computer with internet that allows people to visit poker sites, IRC, and play poker online.

I dont think thats an unreasonable assumption though.

Anyone that is really poor can not afford internet or a computers.

Anyone who is really that poor could not be a regular poster and visitor to IRC.

all of that really just proves my point about us not really knowing that poor is anymore.

our "poor" live much better than the middle class of some other countries.

[Laeelin]

Im sorry did I come off a little assholish in my post? =(
DIdnt meant too

oh, and you didnt

[vqc]

this is the part im referring to.
"I'm not trying to be offensive, but try being poor sometimes. It really opens your eyes up to how just a little work and effort can change you from poor back to middle class. "

I guess in a way i'm making an assumption, but it's a very very reasonable one.

I dont think he has a 24-hour libary with a free computer with internet that allows people to visit poker sites, IRC, and play poker online.

I dont think thats an unreasonable assumption though.

Anyone that is really poor can not afford internet or a computers.

Anyone who is really that poor could not be a regular poster and visitor to IRC.

all of that really just proves my point about us not really knowing that poor is anymore.

our "poor" live much better than the middle class of some other countries.

im not disagreeing watsoever
me and boost talked about this last night

I still think he needs to go back to school =)

[boost]

I said I wouldnt post again, but it seems things have cooled down, and I wont have to spend 5 hours in this thread a day.

So here goes nothing. Yes our poor live very 'comfortable' lives compared to other countries poor. However 'poor' is relative, and I guess Im more interested in better distribution of wealth. I dont want to fucking live in a communist country. But look at brazil, I believe they have the most unevenly distributed wealth in the world. Thier poor are soooo poor, and thier rich are soooo rich. The richer you are the easier it is to take advantage of the poor, thats something that I think everyone can agree on. And as humans tend to be greedy, this tends to happen. So in brazil what would you suggest is a logical fix? A better distribution of wealth, right? Well our situation isnt so bad, but its not good either, and why does this not apply here?

And I know Im not full of answers, however you all seem to be complacent in just standing by and saying "meh its not that bad."

And laelin, thats great that you went broke and came back, and Im being sincere, thats soemthing to be proud of. But try being born broke. See if you can make it then. And I dont really wanna pull the race card, but Ill do it anyways, you made an assumption and I will to, you are white right? Well now try not only being born broke, but try being born a minority and broke...

[lowBoy]

I'm voting Jon Stewart next election where Canadians get to vote for non-candidates in a US election.

[Lukie]

I'm going to refer everyone to Laelin's post on Fri 09 Dec 2005 at 2:26pm.

Very well stated.

[ZenOffsuit]

I am conservative/libertarian. I was a liberal back in the day, and boy was I so proud to say it. But, it didn't take my conservative friends too long to have me calling them names in the middle of a discussion because I couldn't come up with anything close to legitimate facts.

Anyone that starts out calling people Hitler or Nazi's because of their ideology is exposing some real ignorance and bitterness. When I was a liberal and so 'loving and caring' I was always f-ng miserable and angry. I was arrogant and ignorant.

Capitilism is a beautiful thing, it allows for great opportunities. Of course it is not perfect but what would you prefer? Trying to share wealth equally will just gaurantee that no one will ever be wealthy......except the government.

If you are interested, read Thomas Sowell's Visions of The Annointed. Brilliantly shreds so many democrat/socialistic theories, legistation etc.

"Poverty is not always a case of the have's vs. the have not's. More often it is a case of the Do's vs. the Do nots." T.S.

[soupie]

And I dont really wanna pull the race card, but Ill do it anyways, you made an assumption and I will to, you are white right? Well now try not only being born broke, but try being born a minority and broke...

Boost,

I have always respected you and shown respect. We have had a good time joking around in the past and so forth. This has to be about most rot gut filth i have ever read. The color of your skin has absolutely no relavance to your worth as a man unless you allow someone else to dictate your worth to you. Who is in charge of your brain?

The whole reason you are broke if you are is that you didnt listen to me, a natural born white guy, who coached you for free (what conservatives do, give back because it is the right thing to do rather than expect the govt to provide free quality poker coaches).

I write this thinking, wow, has my impact really been that insignificant?

soupie

[vqc]

And I dont really wanna pull the race card, but Ill do it anyways, you made an assumption and I will to, you are white right? Well now try not only being born broke, but try being born a minority and broke...

Boost,

I have always respected you and shown respect. We have had a good time joking around in the past and so forth. This has to be about most rot gut filth i have ever read. The color of your skin has absolutely no relavance to your worth as a man unless you allow someone else to dictate your worth to you. Who is in charge of your brain?

The whole reason you are broke if you are is that you didnt listen to me, a natural born white guy, who coached you for free (what conservatives do, give back because it is the right thing to do rather than expect the govt to provide free quality poker coaches).

I write this thinking, wow, has my impact really been that insignificant?

soupie

Im not sure if hes talking about himself soupie.
When I read it I thought he was just saying that it was harder for minorities in the US becuase racism still exists.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Im not talking about communism, Im talking about higher taxes so we can have a real health care system.

Reform HMOs and managed care and you'll do a hell of a lot more good than just pumping money into the system. The United States is the only industrialized country without a universal health plan, yet we spend a significantly higher percentage of our GDP on health care than the countries that do. Managed care is a thorn in the side of our healthcare system, and most people don't even realize it. It's not a matter of redistribution of money among the populace, because the money is already there. It's a matter of redistribution of money among people involved in the healthcare process.

[boost]

Im not talking about communism, Im talking about higher taxes so we can have a real health care system.

Reform HMOs and managed care and you'll do a hell of a lot more good than just pumping money into the system. The United States is the only industrialized country without a universal health plan, yet we spend a significantly higher percentage of our GDP on health care than the countries that do. Managed care is a thorn in the side of our healthcare system, and most people don't even realize it. It's not a matter of redistribution of money among the populace, because the money is already there. It's a matter of redistribution of money among people involved in the healthcare process.

Very interesting, I did not know these things.

[boost]

And I dont really wanna pull the race card, but Ill do it anyways, you made an assumption and I will to, you are white right? Well now try not only being born broke, but try being born a minority and broke...

Boost,

I have always respected you and shown respect. We have had a good time joking around in the past and so forth. This has to be about most rot gut filth i have ever read. The color of your skin has absolutely no relavance to your worth as a man unless you allow someone else to dictate your worth to you. Who is in charge of your brain?

The whole reason you are broke if you are is that you didnt listen to me, a natural born white guy, who coached you for free (what conservatives do, give back because it is the right thing to do rather than expect the govt to provide free quality poker coaches).

I write this thinking, wow, has my impact really been that insignificant?

soupie

woah woah woah soupie. Are you saying racism does not exist? I dont think this is what you are saying, and if its not I understand your point I guess. So yes, under almost any circumstances any given person can make it in this country. Im not disputing this. However I think that a lot of caucasian people make it to a point where they feel they are sucessful, then see a minority at that level too. Then come the assumption that as a caucasian they worked just as hard to get there, and therefore any minority, or any person for that matter, not at that level just didnt work as hard. So like you said, the color of your skin does not have any relevance to your worth as a man. This is what should be true, and a rule that any moral person should stand by. However thats not the case. People still judge others by thier skin color. I have very high self worth, I do not feel inferior in any way because I am a minority. But the sad truth is there are plenty of people in this country and this world that will think lower of me because the color of my skin. I also just thought maybe your point was that people shouldnt dwell so much on the subject, because then they kinda play into it. Well maybe this is true, but at the same time you cant just ignore it. Things are getting better, so its harder to see, but its still there so we need to keep fighting.

And why do I feel so much hostility from you soupie? You poker advice was not wasted on me, Inor was your life advice. I still struggle with some issues that I should have gotten over a long time ago, so no Im not rich yet. However Im not broke either. Your advice has helped me stay from going broke, and Im thankful for that. If you feel like Im just another washed up dreamer, well thats not true, I just dont come around vent so much because, I either have itunes on when I play, or sometimes I just dont feel welcome, or like I fit in. I think thats my problem, since you guys are all really nice people.

[rubixstreub]

I'll just say I agree with you Boost, although I don't care how informed any of us are, it's highly unlikely anyone's political beliefs are going to be swayed in a poker forum. We all could argue this until we're blue in the face but in reality the issues are just to broad and our personal beliefs are just too deeply ingrained...

Anyways, I think this is interesting (warning, it's just liberial propaganda)
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

[Lukie]

I'll just say I agree with you Boost, although I don't care how informed any of us are, it's highly unlikely anyone's political beliefs are going to be swayed in a poker forum. We all could argue this until we're blue in the face but in reality the issues are just to broad and our personal beliefs are just too deeply ingrained...

Anyways, I think this is interesting (warning, it's just liberial propaganda)
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

I agree with you that I doubt anyone's politcal views are going to change because of this thread.. not necessarily because personal beliefs are too deeply ingrained. As people become older and more educated their political views tend to become more conservative.

[boost]

just remember, as we age we dont always mature...

I respect your observation lukie, just dont want to let it be implied that to be liberal is to be immature

[vqc]

just remember, as we age we dont always mature...

I respect your observation lukie, just dont want to let it be implied that to be liberal is to be immature

PSH!
LIBERALS ARE IMMATURE!!!!
Well
fine not all.
Just BOOST! =D

[Lukie]

just remember, as we age we dont always mature...

I respect your observation lukie, just dont want to let it be implied that to be liberal is to be immature

Don't worry boost.. that's not what I was trying to imply. I was just trying to point out a few things that goes against political views being so deeply engrained in people's minds that they won't change. For example, in the United States, it is a statistical fact that the more formal education somebody receives, the more likely they are to vote Republican. When people age, they are more likely to vote Republican (doesn't apply to senior citizens).

[boost]

So thats where they subject the masses to thier brainwash machine, college!!!

[Element187]

Hitler was kinda right wing. About as much as Bush.

First off, Hitler was the leader of the national socialist party of germany.. that is a very far left party...

You obviously need alot more research and study in politics.

I wanna see where hitler was right wing... his domestic policies had the government confiscating all forms of private profits to redistribute equally among society ... that is the definition of communism.

He was only considered a fascist for forcing privately owned companies to produce military goods in his sick and twisted goals of imperalism.


If you want to compare Bush to Hilter ... your more then welcome to make such an ignorant oberservation.

Its like comparing Bill Clinton to Stalin/Marx/Lennin

[Element187]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

never read it .. .but i do follow her ideas alot... i consider myself more of a libertarian then anything else.

[Element187]

Read the Ayn Rand Lexicon and you'll never be the same again.

Your eyes will melt, for a start.

Anyone younger than 50 who votes Republican is worse than Hitler. I am not generalising here. I mean every single one of you.

Shut it Hippy. Democrats are closer to communist than Republicans

thank you.. im sick of everyone comparing hitler to anything right wing.. he was way on the left fringe

[vqc]

just remember, as we age we dont always mature...

I respect your observation lukie, just dont want to let it be implied that to be liberal is to be immature

For example, in the United States, it is a statistical fact that the more formal education somebody receives, the more likely they are to vote Republican.

I would like to point out some problems with ur statement here.
The more formal education, the more likely to vote republican.
This statement implies that the more you learn the more u are liekly to vote for republicans. Which is then implying that the the more u learn about hte world, the more likely u are to vote in a certain way.

One thing that the statistics fails to point out is that
The more education u have the more liekly u are to take a high income job. As such, you are more apt to vote for the party that benefits you, regardless of whether or not u believe their ideals to be correct. People vote with their wallets, not with their brains.

[boost]

There are some very non-ignorant comparisons to be made, no Im not going to go into them, instead Ill give you an unrelated example.

Despite the fact that phrase "thats like comparing apples to oranges" means that the comparison is without merit. The simple fact is that these two things are very comparable. They are both seedbearing fruit, they are both more or less spherical in shape (depending on the variety), their juices are very popular, ect. Sure they are not the same, there are many differences, however Im not calling the apple an orange, Im merely comparing the two diffent entities by pointing out similarities.

So when people compare hitler to bush, its a silly rebuttle to point out the differences between the two.

[Element187]

Boost your whole argument would be true if you believed that the government did a better job of managing your $ then you could do yourself. The government does a terrible job when it comes to using tax dollars what makes you think that they are better off with your money than you? It is better for consumer to keep the $ and grow the economy by purchasing goods and services.

In this is what a economic conservative is all about.

You really cannot describe someone liberal or conservative without giving out an issue to see which side we stand on..

when it comes to the economy, i would never vote for a democrat... they are way too irresponsible...

[Element187]

Oh, and one more thing is oil and the fact that its running out. This is a huge problem, yet neither party seems to know about it and / or care. There is very little public awareness. Most people are under the impression that we can go on guzzling gas for the next 200 years with out a problem. Even if this where to be the truth, now would be the time to start switching over to another energy source. And also people dont understand that we will never run out of oil, because the world infrastructure will crumble before we can suck the last reserves dry. We are not just talking about gas for your car, but products like plastics, something that we currently cant live without. And something that every other current and prospective energy source needs to be harnessed in the quantities we need.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is a pretty big deal, and everyone seems to just brush it off. Problems like this are what governments should busy themselves with, not trying to colonize the middle east :-\

Do you see the irony in your statement?

hes on the "no blood for oil" bandwagon

lets speak reality here... if we want to maintain our current quality and standard of living, we need to be able to leverage ourselves in the middle east.

[Element187]

yes but Im not saying that we give everyone everything. Jesus its like everyone is so retarded. You are painting me as a full blown fucking communist. Its like the idea of something anywhere inbetween is completely wrong to you. If you cant see that capitalism is good, but still inherantly flawed, then you are blind.

Capitalism is not flawed in anyway.


Lets take america for example.. If you cannot find a way to succeed in america, you need to take a closer look at the decisions you made in life.

with communism... everyone recieves the same sort of money... that completely kills motivation.

whats the motivation for me to be an engineer, when i can do nothing, smoke pot all day, and work at mcdonalds and make the same money as an engineer?

how is it fair, to support the people who are lazy by breaking the backs of people who go out and strive to make a serious change in thier lives?

Capitalism rewards the hard working and the motivated and innovative.

while communism rewards the lazy at the expense of the hard working ?

[Element187]

There are some very non-ignorant comparisons to be made, no Im not going to go into them, instead Ill give you an unrelated example.

Despite the fact that phrase "thats like comparing apples to oranges" means that the comparison is without merit. The simple fact is that these two things are very comparable. They are both seedbearing fruit, they are both more or less spherical in shape (depending on the variety), their juices are very popular, ect. Sure they are not the same, there are many differences, however Im not calling the apple an orange, Im merely comparing the two diffent entities by pointing out similarities.

So when people compare hitler to bush, its a silly rebuttle to point out the differences between the two.

comparing bush to hitler is no way comparing apples and oranges... its not even comparing baseball to soccer.. comparing bush to hitler is not even the same league.. hell its not even the same sport.

You are comparing Bush to a tyrannical dictactor hell bent on taking over the world...

i really would like to hear your logic behind the perverse comparison of bush and hitler.. the two are so far apart its absurd to even imagine otherwise.

[vqc]

yes but Im not saying that we give everyone everything. Jesus its like everyone is so retarded. You are painting me as a full blown fucking communist. Its like the idea of something anywhere inbetween is completely wrong to you. If you cant see that capitalism is good, but still inherantly flawed, then you are blind.

Capitalism is not flawed in anyway.


Lets take america for example.. If you cannot find a way to succeed in america, you need to take a closer look at the decisions you made in life.

with communism... everyone recieves the same sort of money... that completely kills motivation.

whats the motivation for me to be an engineer, when i can do nothing, smoke pot all day, and work at mcdonalds and make the same money as an engineer?

how is it fair, to support the people who are lazy by breaking the backs of people who go out and strive to make a serious change in thier lives?

Capitalism rewards the hard working and the motivated and innovative.

while communism rewards the lazy at the expense of the hard working ?

ugh
ur making the biggest generalizations ever
ever heard of dworkin?
Rawls
Nozick?

How are u going to distirbute results of the natural lottery? Social lottery? Are all people born int he same financial situations?
Do all people have the same opportunities?

Capitalism has so many flaws.
Not to say its not the best of wat is available, but to say that it is perfect is ... well wrong.

[Element187]

yes but Im not saying that we give everyone everything. Jesus its like everyone is so retarded. You are painting me as a full blown fucking communist. Its like the idea of something anywhere inbetween is completely wrong to you. If you cant see that capitalism is good, but still inherantly flawed, then you are blind.

Capitalism is not flawed in anyway.


Lets take america for example.. If you cannot find a way to succeed in america, you need to take a closer look at the decisions you made in life.

with communism... everyone recieves the same sort of money... that completely kills motivation.

whats the motivation for me to be an engineer, when i can do nothing, smoke pot all day, and work at mcdonalds and make the same money as an engineer?

how is it fair, to support the people who are lazy by breaking the backs of people who go out and strive to make a serious change in thier lives?

Capitalism rewards the hard working and the motivated and innovative.

while communism rewards the lazy at the expense of the hard working ?

ugh
ur making the biggest generalizations ever
ever heard of dworkin?
Rawls
Nozick?

How are u going to distirbute results of the natural lottery? Social lottery? Are all people born int he same financial situations?
Do all people have the same opportunities?

Capitalism has so many flaws.
Not to say its not the best of wat is available, but to say that it is perfect is ... well wrong.

how is rewarding the hardworking a flaw ?

capitalism is the only way to get out of poverty.