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Originally Posted by Poopadoop
The gain to you here is so unlikely to be realized.
No. The gain I get is immediately realized, because the gain is my sense of being a "good" person who "does the right thing." My reasons for wanting to be good or do the right thing don't need to be remotely rational. I offered a case in which those arguments were rational-ish, but you showed how they're not. That's fine. What matters is that I chose to do it for my own reasons, not that those reasons were factually accurate.
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
It's also a bit unrealistic to think that your own behavior has such a great influence on society as a whole [...]
*shrug* Yes and no. IDK what affect I have on the greater society as a whole, but ... butterfly affect ... I constantly interact with society as a part of it... I feel like this could be a whole other conversation.
It's not relevant, though.
It is not relevant whether or not what I'm thinking has any correlation to reality, only that my choices are rooted in what I want.
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
That's not really a reasonable expectation though is it? How is he supposed to help you, and moreover, why help you over someone else he might already be helping? Is he even aware that you need help if you haven't asked for it? And if so, is he in a position to help? What should he be doing, sending you money over the internet?
It's your argument, and I agree it's not reasonable.
He's supposed to help me by not thinking about what is in his own best interests, the selfish prick.
If he wasn't being so damn selfish by ignoring me, then he'd be well aware.
I bet he knows people who can help. So long as they're not selfish pricks, too, I'll be saved!
That's not a bad start, but right now, I just need someone to wipe my ass. It's getting itchy, you selfish pricks. Don't you see I'm uncomfortable, here?
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
For example, if someone asks you how fluid dynamics works and you answer, why are you doing that?
You're joking, right?
Give me an excuse to talk about physics.
I dare you.
I'll bump that physics monkey thread faster than you can meme, punk.
Get me started.
Just get me started!
No, scratch that. I'm already thinking about how awesome non-Newtonian fluids are and how shampoo and liquid hand soap are specifically formulated to be runny when you squeeze them out, but then firmer when on your hand, so they don't run onto the floor. Ever seen foaming soap in a public restroom? That's why it's foamy. So they don't have to clean up as much mess from the soap that slides right off your hand.
...
and you think I'm not smiling from ear to ear right now, and that's not a very selfish joy?
I thought you were, like, a people-knower science guy or something?
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
We're not ignoring it, we're pointing out it's kind of a prop that you're using to change the nature of the argument (presumably unconsciously) into one about the normal vs. MMM definition of a word.
I'm really not, though. I'm pointing out that what you say it means can't be what it means, because it makes no sense whatsoever. It's a perfectly absurd proposition. I'm not trying to change the definition, really. That's futile. I'm saying the current definition is nonsense.
I'm saying that being selfish is inseparable from being a self.
I'm saying that calling someone whom does something you don't like selfish is completely missing the point of whatever you don't like, 'cause all the other people who do things you do like are also being selfish.
It's not a prop I'm injecting. It's the manipulative nature of the accusation coupled with the hypocrisy of it all inherent to the usage that I'm shining a light on.
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
It might help to give an example of what you mean by 'virtue signalling' here. Do you mean if I help an old lady across the street I'm really being selfish because I want to virtue signal that I'm a nice person? I think of virtue signalling as more in line with hypocrisy, where a person says one thing but acts in the opposite way.
I mean if you call someone selfish, you're virtue signalling that you're better than them because they are selfish and you, presumably, are not. Manipulation and hypocrisy.
Originally Posted by Poopadoop
If I'm actually being nice and sacrificing my time for someone else's benefit, it's a bit cynical to view that as 'selfish' imo.
So... you want to pretend you do things for other reasons because it makes you feel better about the things you do...?
and that's... not... selfish?
and I'm the one injecting some prop into the conversation?
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