gg

[bigspenda73]

http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsev.../20081112b.htm

[bigspenda73]

From a 2+2 thread:

However, the Congressional Review Act has this clause:

"...any regulation finalized within 60 days of congressional adjournment — Oct. 3, in this case — is considered to have been legally finalized on Jan. 15, 2009. The new Congress then has 60 days to review it and reverse it with a joint resolution that can’t be filibustered in the Senate."

As Politco sums up:

"In other words, any regulation finalized in the last half-year of the Bush administration could be wiped out with a simple party-line vote in the Democrat-controlled Congress."

[BankItDrew]

Cliff notes:
U.S. players have until December 1, 2009 to play poker online. Unless, the new administration votes it out?

[lolzzz_321]

this is standard

[bigspenda73]

Cliff notes:
U.S. players have until December 1, 2009 to play poker online. Unless, the new administration votes it out?

Clif notes: Bush administration passes last-minute laws restricting online gambling in the US. They will be forcing financial institutions to monitor where checks are coming/going and to create a list of unlawful establishments and refuse service.

It has been found; however, that the Obama administration and the Democratic Senate/House/whatever can overturn any legislation passed in the final months of the Bush term. Therefore, if the people, the PPA, and influential politicians such as Barney Frank can drum up enough support against these laws we might have a chance.

I'm pretty upset about the entire ordeal, the Republican Party has done enough over the past 8 years, why couldn't they have taken the last two months off?

A final note (made by JeffreyS on 2+2) is that the NFL is definitely behind the UIGEA, and it's easy to see why. A large entity such as the NFL has us grossly outweighed in terms of spending power and I'm sure any other means, thereby making this process even more difficult on us.

[Ragnar4]

damn wow.

[BankItDrew]

Any ideas on what the major poker sites plan on doing about this? Possibly extending their marketing efforts to outside the U.S.? How might Canada be affected? Does this mean that Stars will not exceed 20,000 players online at a time?

[ProZachNation]

real question, should we be scared to have money online?

[vaks]

I do not realize why the US is trying to do this to begin with? why is finalizing the UIGEA a big deal? what do they believe the UIGEA will do thats beneficial?

what am i missing?

[bigspenda73]

real question, should we be scared to have money online?

no

[bigspenda73]

I do not realize why the US is trying to do this to begin with? why is finalizing the UIGEA a big deal? what do they believe the UIGEA will do thats beneficial?

what am i missing?

From a Republican/Christian view (note I'm unaffiliated and Jewish) I would guess that gambling is immoral, a sin, and an addiction. People lose their houses, kids college funds, etc... from gambling. Also, the sanctity and legitimacy of professional sports has been put on trial lately because of gambling issues (see Tim Donaughy in the NBA). Also, the gov't has been unable to regulate/tax the businesses (this is hearsay).

In the end I'm sure it's about money, not about the sin/addiction side of view.

[Trikflow77]

real funny now eh spoon.

[spoonitnow]

real funny now eh spoon.

Never said it was funny, and it's obviously not, but there are a lot of people going around like OMFG when it's not that big of a deal yet.

[Trikflow77]

real funny now eh spoon.

Never said it was funny, and it's obviously not, but there are a lot of people going around like OMFG when it's not that big of a deal yet.

considering that the fish pool is going to be around or near zero with the passing of this i would say its a pretty big deal. Sorry i just got annoyed at the sky is falling reference, didnt mean to flame or or anything. I apologize

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Anyone here know if i can get a canadian bank account with a US address? Someone in 2p2 just said it but it sounded farfetched.

[Trikflow77]

Anyone here know if i can get a canadian bank account with a US address? Someone in 2p2 just said it but it sounded farfetched.

as far as i know you can, but the implications with the irs would make me think twice even if i was paying taxes on my winnings.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Anyone here know if i can get a canadian bank account with a US address? Someone in 2p2 just said it but it sounded farfetched.

as far as i know you can, but the implications with the irs would make me think twice even if i was paying taxes on my winnings.

Is it illegal? I don't understand

[spoonitnow]

real funny now eh spoon.

Never said it was funny, and it's obviously not, but there are a lot of people going around like OMFG when it's not that big of a deal yet.

considering that the fish pool is going to be around or near zero with the passing of this i would say its a pretty big deal. Sorry i just got annoyed at the sky is falling reference, didnt mean to flame or or anything. I apologize

No problem, I didn't take it as a flame. All I'm saying is just remember that the same thing was supposed to happen in spring/summer 07 when the UIGEA's 120 or 180 days was up. The current situation doesn't change much, plus they don't have to be in effect until December 2009, plus we get plenty of shots at the UIGEA before then.

[will641]

so what would be the best plan on next 11 day and nothing is done to overturn this bullshit, assuming it goes through? Nothing? Withdraw monies? Move to a different country?

[spoonitnow]

so what would be the best plan on next 1 year and 11 day and nothing is done to overturn this bullshit, assuming it goes through? Nothing? Withdraw monies? Move to a different country?

[will641]

sorry for thinking ahead. didnt realize that was stoopid.

[allabout]

real funny now eh spoon.

Never said it was funny, and it's obviously not, but there are a lot of people going around like OMFG when it's not that big of a deal yet.

considering that the fish pool is going to be around or near zero with the passing of this i would say its a pretty big deal. Sorry i just got annoyed at the sky is falling reference, didnt mean to flame or or anything. I apologize

No problem, I didn't take it as a flame. All I'm saying is just remember that the same thing was supposed to happen in spring/summer 07 when the UIGEA's 120 or 180 days was up. The current situation doesn't change much, plus they don't have to be in effect until December 2009, plus we get plenty of shots at the UIGEA before then.

I really have to agree. Not much has really changed yet and most fish that are playing aren't following whether or not the UIGEA was finalized or not. US players aren't the only fish in the sea. Until PS or FT says they aren't taking US players I'm not too worried. I'm more pissed about the principal of it. Another great example of the American lawmaking system at work.

[a500lbgorilla]

games'll probably get softer for the non US players

[oskar]

Perfect time to move to papua new guinea?

[wufwugy]

the only ONLY problem for us here is if PS or FTP pull out of the US, and they have no reason to.

the regs explicitly state they do not cover cashing out, and even if they did the work around is super super easy and i think the sites already do that particular work around anyways (transfering cashout to foreign bank then the foreign bank issues the transaction/check to US bank)

i have thoughts on other parts of this but they're unsure so ill keep them to myself.

[bigspenda73]

While they say there is no problem with cashing out where does it say banks will accept checks from unlawful gaming institutions?

While they say there is no problem with cashing out where does it say banks will accept checks from unlawful gaming institutions?

Pray tell, how are they going to know that the check is from an "unlawful gaming institution?" Are they going to check every single check?

[bigspenda73]

The banks are going to have to compile a list of institutions in which they deem unlawful. It's somewhere in the legislation.

[sarbox68]

While they say there is no problem with cashing out where does it say banks will accept checks from unlawful gaming institutions?

there's always Saul's Check Cashing... which just so happens to be located in the back of Saul's Liquor and Cash, right next to the freezer full of otter pops and fudgesicles... two blocks west on 118th at Imperial...

i can prolly even hook you up with a discount on the vig 'cause Saul's a family friend and all...

[Numbr2intheWorld]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...a-regs-342360/

well this is relieving

[Ragnar4]

Ok.

Here's the deal. Institutions cannot accept any form of money from these earmarked institutions, whoever they are determined to be.

Lets say that Pokerstars is one of those earmarked institutions.

What this legislation is doing, is they are allowing us to put money into the account, and play, and we'll even be able to cash out, because Pokerstars initiates their checks from banks within the US I get mine from Bank of America.

Where things will begin to fall apart is: As money is taken from these pay-out accounts, it simply cannot be replenished. No matter how many times they attempt to re-route and move the money into different institutions, the originator of the funds will always be associated with the funds themselves, and any time they attempt to move the funds into the us, those funds make a stop at the FEDERAL RESERVE. If those funds do not meet the proper criteria, they are simply reversed out by the federal reserve to a the originating institution.

So what happens is while you're Ballin' and livin', and spending money like your 11, the account that holds your funds will eventually run out, and then they won't be able to issue you a check any more.

Say they issue you a check from France then? That will work for a while, until they figure out that the bank from France is issuing these checks. The federal reserve will then issue instructions to the banks that all checks from that bank in france need to be issued for collections which will require from 30-90 days and a HEFTY Fee charged by the bank to cash those funds to evaluate whether this check came from the evil pokerstars institution.

If they can't negotiate those funds, you still lose the fee.

They aren't attacking the players, that's silly, they are just making it not worth the players time to put his butt in his seat and log in.

[Ragnar4]

While they say there is no problem with cashing out where does it say banks will accept checks from unlawful gaming institutions?

there's always Saul's Check Cashing... which just so happens to be located in the back of Saul's Liquor and Cash, right next to the freezer full of otter pops and fudgesicles... two blocks west on 118th at Imperial...

i can prolly even hook you up with a discount on the vig 'cause Saul's a family friend and all...

Saul has a shotgun behind his counter and your address, do you think he's going to be happy when he cashes a check for you for a couple grand and it comes back un negotiable?

[Jack Sawyer]

fucking scumbags




fucking malaria infested scumbags

[flomo]

don't worry President Obama will take care of everything

relax

[Trikflow77]

Anyone here know if i can get a canadian bank account with a US address? Someone in 2p2 just said it but it sounded farfetched.

as far as i know you can, but the implications with the irs would make me think twice even if i was paying taxes on my winnings.

Is it illegal? I don't understand

I was referring to the irs claiming that your income is not legal with respect to the current laws and regulations. I might not be making a credible point here, just thinking out loud.

Should I even pay my taxes on my winnings? :/
I mean at some point I'll have to, but I didn't even win that much this year

[sarbox68]

While they say there is no problem with cashing out where does it say banks will accept checks from unlawful gaming institutions?

there's always Saul's Check Cashing... which just so happens to be located in the back of Saul's Liquor and Cash, right next to the freezer full of otter pops and fudgesicles... two blocks west on 118th at Imperial...

i can prolly even hook you up with a discount on the vig 'cause Saul's a family friend and all...

Saul has a shotgun behind his counter and your address, do you think he's going to be happy when he cashes a check for you for a couple grand and it comes back un negotiable?

Naw... Saul cool and he got mad skills.... plus he too busy chasing down those kited insurance checks.....

[flomo]

sarbox and iopq should have a race to $9,000 and.........nvm







already been done

[jimmy44]

It does not seem that bad:
http://www.compatiblepoker.com/final-uigea.cms.htm
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=369

Let's hope!

[kingnat]

I saw this in the Washington Post article and it made me el oh el:

he NFL's general counsel, Jeffrey Pash, urged lawmakers in March to "support the integrity of American athletics" by rejecting Frank's bill or any other alternative to the existing legislation. But Internet gambling officials have long maintained that the NFL's real motivation is to block any competition for lucrative "fantasy football" gambling via the Internet, which was explicitly exempted from the 2006 ban.

The NFL provides statistics, logos and player information to fantasy leagues that pay substantial royalty fees, industry sources say. It backed the exemption on grounds that fantasy football is a game of skill, not chance.

Cuz the edges in FF are like CRAZY MAD INSANE HUDGE!!!

[will641]

wow that is fucking the stupidest thing ive ever heard.

[ProZachNation]

The NFL provides statistics, logos and player information to fantasy leagues that pay substantial royalty fees, industry sources say. It backed the exemption on grounds that fantasy football is a game of skill, not chance.

But but but

Game of skill my ass, and Tom Brady drops back.... "MY KNEEE OHHH GOD MY KNEE"

same thing as getting 3 outed IMO

[wufwugy]

Ok.

Here's the deal. Institutions cannot accept any form of money from these earmarked institutions, whoever they are determined to be.

Lets say that Pokerstars is one of those earmarked institutions.

What this legislation is doing, is they are allowing us to put money into the account, and play, and we'll even be able to cash out, because Pokerstars initiates their checks from banks within the US I get mine from Bank of America.

Where things will begin to fall apart is: As money is taken from these pay-out accounts, it simply cannot be replenished. No matter how many times they attempt to re-route and move the money into different institutions, the originator of the funds will always be associated with the funds themselves, and any time they attempt to move the funds into the us, those funds make a stop at the FEDERAL RESERVE. If those funds do not meet the proper criteria, they are simply reversed out by the federal reserve to a the originating institution.

So what happens is while you're Ballin' and livin', and spending money like your 11, the account that holds your funds will eventually run out, and then they won't be able to issue you a check any more.

Say they issue you a check from France then? That will work for a while, until they figure out that the bank from France is issuing these checks. The federal reserve will then issue instructions to the banks that all checks from that bank in france need to be issued for collections which will require from 30-90 days and a HEFTY Fee charged by the bank to cash those funds to evaluate whether this check came from the evil pokerstars institution.

If they can't negotiate those funds, you still lose the fee.

They aren't attacking the players, that's silly, they are just making it not worth the players time to put his butt in his seat and log in.

this is not even close to the analysis of the few knowledgeable people on 2p2, unless there were some radical developments over the last few hours

[Ragnar4]

Ok.

Here's the deal. Institutions cannot accept any form of money from these earmarked institutions, whoever they are determined to be.

Lets say that Pokerstars is one of those earmarked institutions.

What this legislation is doing, is they are allowing us to put money into the account, and play, and we'll even be able to cash out, because Pokerstars initiates their checks from banks within the US I get mine from Bank of America.

Where things will begin to fall apart is: As money is taken from these pay-out accounts, it simply cannot be replenished. No matter how many times they attempt to re-route and move the money into different institutions, the originator of the funds will always be associated with the funds themselves, and any time they attempt to move the funds into the us, those funds make a stop at the FEDERAL RESERVE. If those funds do not meet the proper criteria, they are simply reversed out by the federal reserve to a the originating institution.

So what happens is while you're Ballin' and livin', and spending money like your 11, the account that holds your funds will eventually run out, and then they won't be able to issue you a check any more.

Say they issue you a check from France then? That will work for a while, until they figure out that the bank from France is issuing these checks. The federal reserve will then issue instructions to the banks that all checks from that bank in france need to be issued for collections which will require from 30-90 days and a HEFTY Fee charged by the bank to cash those funds to evaluate whether this check came from the evil pokerstars institution.

If they can't negotiate those funds, you still lose the fee.

They aren't attacking the players, that's silly, they are just making it not worth the players time to put his butt in his seat and log in.

this is not even close to the analysis of the few knowledgeable people on 2p2, unless there were some radical developments over the last few hours

I work for one of the most reputable banking institutions in the US. While I haven't combed the actual legislation myself, I have had discussions with my own legal team about this legislation. This is the conclusion we came to on our end, concerning the most logical way to regulate funds with the information we had.

I'll take a 2nd look at the legislation and see where I was wrong....

[wufwugy]

professor rose likes being right about gambling law. his take

http://www.compatiblepoker.com/final-uigea.cms.htm

[bikes]

The NFL provides statistics, logos and player information to fantasy leagues that pay substantial royalty fees, industry sources say. It backed the exemption on grounds that fantasy football is a game of skill, not chance.

But but but

Game of skill my ass, and Tom Brady drops back.... "MY KNEEE OHHH GOD MY KNEE"

same thing as getting 3 outed IMO

1 outed. not 3

[Ragnar4]

What bothers me: Is why is everyone looking at loading money up on the site?

That's not the problem. It's the transfer of funds from bank to bank that has the evil pokerstars institution association code with the funds that's going to prove to be the problem.

[Deanglow]

professor rose likes being right about gambling law. his take

http://www.compatiblepoker.com/final-uigea.cms.htm

I liked this a lot but

It would also cover contests that are primarily skill – including poker tournaments.

He's wrong imo

[zook]

professor rose likes being right about gambling law. his take

http://www.compatiblepoker.com/final-uigea.cms.htm

Love this guy. tyvm.

[wufwugy]

What bothers me: Is why is everyone looking at loading money up on the site?

That's not the problem. It's the transfer of funds from bank to bank that has the evil pokerstars institution association code with the funds that's going to prove to be the problem.

funds going to the gambler are explicitly exempt, albeit this is not the same as funds exiting a gambling site and then going through banks. however that should in no way be a problem. is not pokerstars' bank (the producer of our checks) a non-gambling institution? but anyways uigea doesnt address withdrawals

we're looking at loading money because thats what the regs address. i do not have thorough knowledge of this but my guess is that worst case we see what happened wrt deposits early after uigea passing. some things arent gonna work, some are. PS and FTP have put in a lot of effort getting things working, they learned from their trials, and they will continue to do so

[lolzzz_321]

wellls farrgooo amirite rag?