Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[Fielmann]

Can things that are officially published on HBO's site, such as episode synopsises, next episode previews, etc. be discussed in this thread?

[wufwugy]

Don't discuss previews. Those give a ton away if examined.

But what do I care, I just got spoiled on something huge by that dumbass Iadarola on the TYT GoT commentary show. He attempted to make a comment so vague that he thought only bookreaders would know what he was talking about, but I figured it out rather easily. Oh well

[Penneywize]

Stop reading shit on other sites wuf

We need to keep you pure

[boost]

Yeah, I made that prediction on 2p2 wuf.

I also predicted that the guy sent by Yara was actually with the Boltons. My reasoning was that we had seen torture for torture's sake by Lanister men. If the men who's sigil is the flayed man were no better at torture... And yet what we were shown is essentially the exact same thing as what we saw at Harrenhal. This show isn't sloppy like that, and it's funny because it actually gives the Harrenhal scene purpose beyond being suspenseful. I remember people complaining about that scene being gruesome and serving no purpose.

Anyways, that post got deleted on 2p2, and a mod pm'ed me asking if I was a book reader. So I got spoiled on that, which wasn't that big of a deal since I thought it was pretty much a lock.

[bikes]

i have waited so long to say this in this thread.

LORD BERIC FUCKING DONDARRION!

[JKDS]

Whos that? That boring cyclops?

[bikes]

whatshisface dont-care one-eye douche"


die wuf.

[boost]

Wow, this episode was amazing. I think I like it even more than 4.

Robbs arc is really hitting its stride finally.

Dany's exchange with Grey Worm was so good.

Jaime's recount of killing Aries filled a void we couldn't have known existed.

And the edits... Stannisette's narration of the Aegon book spilling over to the Dany scene. So good.

[wufwugy]

at the rate this show adds new roles, by season 8, each character will get one line per episode


red hair could be meaningful. ygritte said something about "touched by fire"

tywin is the best

[boost]

I love how Tywin yells. He doesn't get all that much louder, he just cranks the bass up to eleven.

[jackvance]

Superb episode. I liked Tywin aswell. And Stannis' wife keeping her stillborns around was pretty eerie.

[Renton]

It's a shame that everything about this show is perfect except it looks like it was edited by a 10th grader.

[jackvance]

It's a shame that everything about this show is perfect except it looks like it was edited by a 10th grader.

Yeah I noticed this too. At one point Cersei starts to talk and it's supposed to have panned to the back of her head, but you can still see her face when she starts talking and her mouth isn't moving.

[wufwugy]

I'm not sure I like these new Stannis developments. It looks to me that his daughter's face is more scaly than burnt, which means that either there is something about Dragonstone making some people like dragons, or there is experimentation going on there that we have yet to find out about. My guess is the latter, and that something involving Stannis and co is trying to create new dragons the way that Targaryens are dragons.

If that's a fire burn, it's a weird one.

This episode had two good examples of why so many characters is a problem. 1) Olenna assumed Tyrion is a drunkard and degenerate. This aspect of Tyrion has been suggested through the show, but it hasn't been demonstrated because there is too little time, so they end up only showing the good side of Tyrion. To us, Tyrion seems like a perfectly awesome dude, but according to the subtext of the show, everybody has a reason to think he's otherwise. 2) Along similar lines, the contrast between Kingslayer and Jaime is lacking. The show never actually explained why Jaime being the Kingslayer is a bad thing, and we're left to assume the label isn't derisive. But that clashes with how the show also has characters use it derisively. There has not been enough screen time with Jaime to demonstrate that even though what he did seemed like the most reasonably just thing ever, nobody else saw it that way.

Also, Meera Reed, Meeran Reed, Mojo Reed, or whatever her name is was introduced like three episodes ago yet only has had one line since. This shit is bananas and Hound needs to go on a rampage and kill half the characters so the show can finally dig into them appropriately. I am worried that a fundamental flaw of GoT will be a lack of character development. So far, none of the characters come remotely close to as great as the GOATs: Brother Justin, Lucius Vorenus, Omar, Bubbs, etc.

As an inveterate classifier of cinema, I don't know how bad my reaction will be if GoT ends up making awful decisions like not vastly expounding on Jaqen, much less just having him return in the first place. There were already too many characters by the time he showed up, but he is so fucking awesome that it's a sin to not spend a lot of time on him

[boost]

I disagree almost entirely.

Like anything, there are trade offs. The more expansive a piece of work, the less detailed it will be, assuming there are some sort of financial or time constraints. Expansive is not the negative opposite of detailed. Character development should be at a certain level for how expansive a narrative is, and I think GoT is well above that mark relative to its expansiveness. The Wire was less expansive, and BrBa quite a bit less... now that I think of it, BrBa has a fairly small scope for the sort of show it is. Yet that is not a drawback, because the character development is intensely nuanced.

[wufwugy]

I disagree almost entirely.

Like anything, there are trade offs. The more expansive a piece of work, the less detailed it will be, assuming there are some sort of financial or time constraints. Expansive is not the negative opposite of detailed. Character development should be at a certain level for how expansive a narrative is, and I think GoT is well above that mark relative to its expansiveness. The Wire was less expansive, and BrBa quite a bit less... now that I think of it, BrBa has a fairly small scope for the sort of show it is. Yet that is not a drawback, because the character development is intensely nuanced.

I'm not sure you disagree with me because you said that expansiveness detracts from character development, which is what I said. It seems you think that it isn't a problem; whereas, I do.

GoT's char dev is superb given its expansiveness and time constraints, but it's still in a fundamentally less capable footing due to the expansiveness and time constraints. It's not a coincidence that in other shows, all the best characters get a ton of air time, yet no GoT chars are currently considered for GOAT. By season 3 of Wire, Omar was thought of as GOAT. Maybe it will just take a much longer time for GoT characters to reach the same level as those in other top shows.

[boost]

Clearly you are the one who is not comprehending the other. You are holding character development up as the end all be all in terms of importance in a narrative. I disagree.

Proof of this is the fact that a really small scope is bad if it's not supplemented by other creative expressions which make up for the lack of scope. I mean, it should be obvious, large scope and nuanced character development detract from each other, yet both are positive things.

So if you say "despite the scope being really huge, I still think the character development is lacking", then fine, we can have that conversation. But just comparing the character development in this show to a show with a smaller scope is absurd.



Oh, and your Jaquen comments are just fanboy drivel. He almost certainly benefits more from being cloaked in mystery than he would from being revealed in his entirety. He is Boba Fett. Sure when I was a kid, I grabbed a couple issues of the Boba Fett comic when I saw it in the comic book store-- you know what? It sucked. That's not to say that more Jaquen would suck.. it could be handled well.. but my point is, cameo rolls are fine, and sometimes the fact that it is a cameo roll plays into the character being so awesome.

[wufwugy]

Clearly you are the one who is not comprehending the other. You are holding character development up as the end all be all in terms of importance in a narrative. I disagree.

No I'm not. It is the most important aspect of any story, but not the only one.

Oh, and your Jaquen comments are just fanboy drivel. He almost certainly benefits more from being cloaked in mystery than he would from being revealed in his entirety. He is Boba Fett. Sure when I was a kid, I grabbed a couple issues of the Boba Fett comic when I saw it in the comic book store-- you know what? It sucked. That's not to say that more Jaquen would suck.. it could be handled well.. but my point is, cameo rolls are fine, and sometimes the fact that it is a cameo roll plays into the character being so awesome.

There is a significant difference between the kinds of characters Fett and Jaqen are. Fett fulfilled his purposes, Jaqen introduced purposes

[boost]

It may be more open to him returning, but if he doesn't return, it would be erroneous to say it's a plothole or that he didn't fulfill his purpose in the narrative.

Also, that's just your subjective opinion that character development trumps all. Fiction tends to lean heavily on it, because it can just make the shit up so that it fits neatly into arcs and whatnot. But there are amazing historical narratives that are completely devoid of any real character development. Often these stories are butchered by adaptations which attempt to tack a character driven story on to them.

[FerBaure]

I'm ashamed of what I did and I want to cry

[wufwugy]

Example of such historical narratives?

[JKDS]

I agree with boost here, googled to find examples of good stories that lack character development...and am left confused as to what character development actually is.

[JKDS]

Like, Indiana Jones and Sherlock Holmes lack character development in terms of change or growth, but they have it in terms of being 3dimensional and likeable. So idk.

Further still, its hard not to just auto develop characters as you go. Like, every time we see ______ we know more about him/her because we see their reactions/responses to current events at minimum, but im not sure thats necessarily the development we're talking about here.

[boost]

Academic history is essentially telling the story of the past in a non dramatized way to retain as much accuracy as possible. Sure the same stories are told through more personal lenses, but they also get clouded by the viewpoints. So you can pretty much look to academic accounts of most historical events to find a narrative without meaningful character development.

I mean, just look at character development. It's so often shown through internal dialogues or expressive emotional monologues. Neither of these things tend to be recorded by history, or the historical event is of such a scale that inclusion of such things would be ancillary at most, but certainly not integral.

[Stacks]

2) Along similar lines, the contrast between Kingslayer and Jaime is lacking. The show never actually explained why Jaime being the Kingslayer is a bad thing, and we're left to assume the label isn't derisive. But that clashes with how the show also has characters use it derisively. There has not been enough screen time with Jaime to demonstrate that even though what he did seemed like the most reasonably just thing ever, nobody else saw it that way.

Isn't it implied that everyone else looks down on Jamie's Kingslaying actions because he was a member of the Kingsguard, and broke his oath by killing King Aerys? Especially since until the last episode apparently very few knew about King Aerys's plans to kill citizens with wildfire once Tywin started sacking the city. So it just looked like Jamie had sided with the rebels and chose to assassinate the king.

[wufwugy]

Like, Indiana Jones and Sherlock Holmes lack character development in terms of change or growth, but they have it in terms of being 3dimensional and likeable. So idk.

Further still, its hard not to just auto develop characters as you go. Like, every time we see ______ we know more about him/her because we see their reactions/responses to current events at minimum, but im not sure thats necessarily the development we're talking about here.

Character development is basically how they're presented to the audience. Conflict is the primary driver of plot, and characters tend to change based on those conflicts, but they don't have to. "Character development" is now used colloquially to simply mean how convincingly and intriguingly the characters are characterized

I mean character development in the broadest sense possible. Similar to how a plot is unfolded before the audience's eyes, a character is unfolded before the audience's eyes. Using GoT as an example, Ned is a well developed character. He never changes one bit, but the audience understands him and cares about his role. You could write an essay on who Ned is as a person, and that shows his character is developed well. Contrast this to the Star Wars I-III trilogy. There is no character development whatsoever in those. Even in attempting to turn Anakin from good to evil, there was no actual development of character, and you can't describe any character from those movies no matter how hard you try. They are all uniform contrived pieces of cardboard that behave with no purpose adherent to supposed previous dynamics

You can say character development is the most important aspect of storytelling because without character there is no empathy from the audience. Even the stories most driven by non-character elements like Aliens -- where plot and setting are more important than most other stories -- the character development still reigns supreme. Without Ripley and Newt and the android and Game Over Man Paxton, Aliens wouldn't have felt real and would have since been forgotten

[wufwugy]

Isn't it implied that everyone else looks down on Jamie's Kingslaying actions because he was a member of the Kingsguard, and broke his oath by killing King Aerys? Especially since until the last episode apparently very few knew about King Aerys's plans to kill citizens with wildfire once Tywin started sacking the city. So it just looked like Jamie had sided with the rebels and chose to assassinate the king.

It is implied, but the implication is also confusing. We've been told over and over again how evil the Mad King was, how he burned some Starks alive and wanted to burn everybody else, and how the heroes Robert and Ned had to save the day. It's as if Jaime would be praised for killing this Scum of the Earth

The show provides almost no ambiguity about how to interpret Aerys, so it's awkward when Jaime is considered the guilty party for putting an end to the king everybody supposedly hated, especially since Jaime's actions were pretty much exactly what Robert and Ned could have wished for.

[wufwugy]

Academic history is essentially telling the story of the past in a non dramatized way to retain as much accuracy as possible. Sure the same stories are told through more personal lenses, but they also get clouded by the viewpoints. So you can pretty much look to academic accounts of most historical events to find a narrative without meaningful character development.

I mean, just look at character development. It's so often shown through internal dialogues or expressive emotional monologues. Neither of these things tend to be recorded by history, or the historical event is of such a scale that inclusion of such things would be ancillary at most, but certainly not integral.

I was thinking that Fog of War might be a good example. I wasn't really referring to non-fiction originally. It begins getting awkward when comparing fiction and non-fiction because one is about drama and the other is not

[Renton]

This episode had two good examples of why so many characters is a problem. 1) Olenna assumed Tyrion is a drunkard and degenerate. This aspect of Tyrion has been suggested through the show, but it hasn't been demonstrated because there is too little time, so they end up only showing the good side of Tyrion. To us, Tyrion seems like a perfectly awesome dude, but according to the subtext of the show, everybody has a reason to think he's otherwise. 2) Along similar lines, the contrast between Kingslayer and Jaime is lacking. The show never actually explained why Jaime being the Kingslayer is a bad thing, and we're left to assume the label isn't derisive. But that clashes with how the show also has characters use it derisively. There has not been enough screen time with Jaime to demonstrate that even though what he did seemed like the most reasonably just thing ever, nobody else saw it that way.

Also, Meera Reed, Meeran Reed, Mojo Reed, or whatever her name is was introduced like three episodes ago yet only has had one line since. This shit is bananas and Hound needs to go on a rampage and kill half the characters so the show can finally dig into them appropriately. I am worried that a fundamental flaw of GoT will be a lack of character development. So far, none of the characters come remotely close to as great as the GOATs: Brother Justin, Lucius Vorenus, Omar, Bubbs, etc.

As an inveterate classifier of cinema, I don't know how bad my reaction will be if GoT ends up making awful decisions like not vastly expounding on Jaqen, much less just having him return in the first place. There were already too many characters by the time he showed up, but he is so fucking awesome that it's a sin to not spend a lot of time on him

1) Tyrion's image is exaggerated. And considering our first impression of Tyrion in S01E01, that image isn't a complete falsehood. It just seems like he's been too busy being imprisoned or being Hand of the King to sink back into his habits. But its obvious from Tyrion and his father's relationship that his father throws this image in Tyrion's face at every opportuinty just because he hates him so much for killing his mother and being a dwarf. That said, season 2 did have him frequenting whorehouses and associating with undesirables like Bronn and his hill tribesmen.

2) The show has repeatedly derided Jaime for killing Aerys. A great example off the top of my head other than Ned's lines is when Barristan is dismissed from Kingsguard. Barristan judges Jaime at least as harshly as Ned. And pretty much every time Jaime is called Kingslayer its with a venomous tone, never in a respectful or admiring way.

That's all I'll say without having to put my bookreader hat on. The Reed siblings are an obvious flaw to the series, thus far, I'll agree with you there. I agree with boost though that it is unfair to compare this show to a focused character study like the Wire or SFU, which spends five 13-hour seasons with the same 5 characters and gives them hundreds of lines and scenes. If you want a more fleshed out profile of these characters, read the books, but thus far the show is doing about as good of a job as it can given the constraints and scope.

[wufwugy]

1) Tyrion's image is exaggerated. And considering our first impression of Tyrion in S01E01, that image isn't a complete falsehood. It just seems like he's been too busy being imprisoned or being Hand of the King to sink back into his habits. But its obvious from Tyrion and his father's relationship that his father throws this image in Tyrion's face at every opportuinty just because he hates him so much for killing his mother and being a dwarf. That said, season 2 did have him frequenting whorehouses and associating with undesirables like Bronn and his hill tribesmen.

2) The show has repeatedly derided Jaime for killing Aerys. A great example off the top of my head other than Ned's lines is when Barristan is dismissed from Kingsguard. Barristan judges Jaime at least as harshly as Ned. And pretty much every time Jaime is called Kingslayer its with a venomous tone, never in a respectful or admiring way.

That's all I'll say without having to put my bookreader hat on. The Reed siblings are an obvious flaw to the series, thus far, I'll agree with you there. I agree with boost though that it is unfair to compare this show to a focused character study like the Wire or SFU, which spends five 13-hour seasons with the same 5 characters and gives them hundreds of lines and scenes.

It isn't so much that I'm comparing them, but that I'm claiming why that difference exists (which is a comparison, but whatever), and it's a difference I don't like. Half of me feels that by the time the series is over, we will see that they could have made it even better if they included fewer characters; the other half of me feels that I'm just being reactionary and that it will end up taking longer for the char dev to bloom than with other shows.

GoT char dev is arguably better than any other show when viewed relative to amount of time given to the chars, but plot moves so quickly that it seems the characters are on the brink of keeping up

I get frustrated that every single episode expands things more. We're already in a position where the Danaerys storyline needs more time, yet it's only going to get less because the show is averaging two new characters per episode. I was thrilled when I learned that Ciaran Hinds is Mance Rayder, but now I don't care. His character is shit compared to what he was in Rome, and the show will not be able to fix that because it's unable to devote the time to it

I guess I should just stop complaining about it because it's how the story is and it's not going to change. A lot of people have the same issue that I do, and I'm afraid the expansion of characters is only going to become more pronounced

[wufwugy]

Pretty sure I have Robb dying the same way his father did: his sense of honor being stupid and impolitic. Would be poetic if it's literally the same way: beheaded by a Lannister captor.

I'm a little uninterested in his character now. I can't root for somebody who makes shit decision after shit decision

[JKDS]

GoT char dev is arguably better than any other show when viewed relative to amount of time given to the chars, but plot moves so quickly that it seems the characters are on the brink of keeping up

I thought of ned stark, and then lulled. If he had just known the plot a little bit earlier, hed be alive.

[jackvance]

The amount of characters also bugged me but I told myself to take it as a long epos and now it doesn't bother me as much. It's just the uninteresting ones that I wish could get cut, such as the cripple Stark kid. Also since his defeat I don't care for Stannis as much, not that I want him gone, just put his exploits in the freezer for a while.

[ChipEaterMan]

Lucky fat guy

[wufwugy]

is jaime seven fucking feet tall?

[JKDS]

I feel like those pictures were taken in panaramic mode and shit got fucked up. They all look fat as fuck.

[ChipEaterMan]

[ChipEaterMan]

[jackvance]

Sansa is so hot

[Penneywize]

Derp pics repost. I'm mad, like I usually get when people repost anything on imgur.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2143843

[ChipEaterMan]

Derp pics repost. I'm mad, like I usually get when people repost anything on imgur.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2143843

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Penney but that pic is awesome and should be posted in every page of this thread. Look at the smile of the fat fuck and how he grabs the waists of those chicks.

[Renton]

[Penneywize]

Fine, acceptable repost. And yeah Sansa and Margaery are le hot.

Dany looks kinda plain in that pic of course, Renton, but we all know how damn stunning she can be.

[bikes]

obv she looks plain shes wearing no makeup -.-

[jackvance]

That's her mugshot.

[wufwugy]

all hot women are hotter without makeup

[Anapoker]

I love this season

[ChipEaterMan]

http://elitedaily.com/entertainment/15-game-thrones/

[wufwugy]

god jaime's real name would be nikolaj. i should grow a suave goatee and get a tan and change my name to esteban

[Renton]

I'm glad only wufwugy saw the point of my post. EC is like the most gorgeous woman alive.

[Stacks]

all hot women are hotter without makeup

I'm thinking most hot chicks without makeup still look better with light/moderate naturalish looking makeup added.

[boost]

I'm glad only wufwugy saw the point of my post. EC is like the most gorgeous woman alive.

lol hyperbole

[Renton]

hyperbole is an appropriate response to people talking about how plain someone's no makeup shot looks who's obviously in the 97th+ percentile of female beauty

[jackvance]

Someone's in love.

[wufwugy]

I'm thinking most hot chicks without makeup still look better with light/moderate naturalish looking makeup added.

Could be, but check out http://www.reddit.com/r/gonenatural/

The average woman on there is probably about a 6/10, but there are some stunners. Personally, I have always preferred no/low makeup. Even when it comes to something like porn, if you ever see actresses you like on a set without much makeup on, they pretty much always look much hotter. It's because it makes them look more real and stuff IMO. Unfortunately, we still live in a culture that thinks women need to "put their face on".

Also if you go over the pornstars without makeup thing, all the pretty ones look better without it and all the ugly ones look ugly no matter what

[wufwugy]

lol hyperbole

I would argue that 97 percentile is low balling it, and Clarke is in the 99.5. Gotta keep in mind that Clarke is basically a prettier Rachel McAdams

My pick is Linda Cardellini or maybe Iga Wyrwal

[jackvance]

I rewatched part of season 1 this week and I remember thinking how cute and hot Dani is, but in this pic her eyes look puffy and red, doesn't really do it for me. Would bang etc ofcourse but I prefer the way she looks in the series.

[bikes]

careful what you click there are massive leaks for tonights ep floating around.

[ChipEaterMan]

Also, I remember there was one of those Deadliest Warrior shows on Spike talked about a sword to behead a horse and that was debunked quickly.

Maquahuitl - Deadliest Warrior Wiki

And samurai had some crazy horse-slayer sword that wasn't ever used for horse slaying.

Zanbatō - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A total aside, as he didn't behead the horse I guess. Just saying that horses are hard to slice through.

That's not true. There have been many swords throughout history that could behead a horse.
A few examples:

[wufwugy]

careful what you click there are massive leaks for tonights ep floating around.

thx for the headsup

[bikes]

and now book readers are as in the dark as the show readers.

also more meera reed thx.

[bikes]

omg i'm in love.

[wufwugy]

and now book readers are as in the dark as the show readers.

what do you mean

[boost]

what do you mean

He means that he's being a dick.

Bikes is smart, and he's not a dick enough to spoil people. But he clearly is a dick enough to tease nonbookreaders in the nonbookreaders' thread with unnecessary nonsense like this.

[boost]

Let's all have a moment of silence for the passing of the greatest pair of tig ol' bitties in all of Westeros and Essos combined.

[bikes]

He means that he's being a dick.

Bikes is smart, and he's not a dick enough to spoil people. But he clearly is a dick enough to tease nonbookreaders in the nonbookreaders' thread with unnecessary nonsense like this.

negative, the gendry/mel arc is not in the books. book readers were promised a huge surprise this season.

[boost]

Fair enough.

Still you were being a teasing little cunt in your previous post.

That's interesting to hear. The show runners are obv super loyal to GRRM's work, but this shows that they won't be loyal to it to a fault. Seems similar to how Boardwalk Empire stays faithful to history in almost every detail, but isn't a slave to it and will alter the record or fill in the blanks in to tell the best story possible, even if that means big changes, like inventing characters/events, shifting time frames, etc.

[wufwugy]

Littlefinger's an asshole.

Sam's gonna kill him a Walker with that Valyrian blade. Might be the only kind of blade that can kill them

Please be Shae's last episode. That accent is the worst. Also her perpetual scowl. Cutting away from Tyrion as he's telling her and Sansa whats up sucked because I hate Shae so much I relish in watching her heart break

Nice dress, Brienne. If Jaime is going back to KL and she's not, there's nothing left for her.

I wonder how much of a flayed man Theon will become. I can't imagine this torturing going so far that he loses lots of skin or dies. The former would be too grotesque and the latter would mean this is all for naught. It seems his captor is intent on torturing him to death, so I guess somebody has to save him

First thought about Melisandre seeing the three different colored eyes in Arya is that she goes full evil and kills her siblings, and those are their eye colors. I don't know if they are, but IIRC Sansa is the only mention of having green eyes. Also Melisandre could even have seen her own death in her eyes. It's probably just a poetic way of saying she gats some fools.

Gendry gonna put a queef monster in Melisandre.

Arya needs to find Hound and team up and go smash in Stannis' door and save Gendry. Or not. Need more Hound though.

I have no damn idea where the Greyjoys have been. Yara, and her relationship with Theon, was focused on enough in s2 to mean she has more to play. Balon doesn't necessarily have to return, but Yara does.

[wufwugy]

I miss so many words I have to rewatch with subs

Noticed that Jaqen's music plays after Melisandre says to Arya "eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again." I think a man will teach a girl how to offer names

If Bolton does give Jaime back to KL, I wouldn't be surprised if he lies to his father and seeks vengeance against the Boltons. Or better yet, he tells his father the truth, and they promptly move to destroy the Boltons. I don't get the sense that either Tywin or Jaime will ever get over the maiming until vengeance is fulfilled

[boost]

That's not how the Lannisters roll. Jaime offered Bolton his debt. Simple as that.

[jackvance]

Good episode. I like the raw realism of just cutting the rope on the climbers and Ros' death. And the three upcoming weddings make it pretty exciting in King's Landing aswell. Having Sansa be so joyful about her supposed weddings is just so.. evil. Speaking of evil, Little Finger feels like he's up to be killed soon. His part should be sufficiently played out now.

Also Tywin is still the man. Appreciating him more and more.

[wufwugy]

That's not how the Lannisters roll. Jaime offered Bolton his debt. Simple as that.

I'm not sure how far they expand that idea. A fulfilled agreement technically isn't a debt, and the Lannisters seem more like a gangster family that defeats those who wrong them first and foremost. That's part of why I don't think Tyrion will ever betray his family.

I forget when and by whom, but this was suggested at in s2. I think it was Tywin who said that they'll ally with the Tyrells because they need them now, but their betrayal of the crown wont be forgotten and will be dealt with in time.

Their egos are off the charts. Jaime was more viscerally mad about the idea of a wolf telling a lion what to do than losing his hand.

[wufwugy]

Good episode. I like the raw realism of just cutting the rope on the climbers and Ros' death. And the three upcoming weddings make it pretty exciting in King's Landing aswell. Having Sansa be so joyful about her supposed weddings is just so.. evil. Speaking of evil, Little Finger feels like he's up to be killed soon. His part should be sufficiently played out now.

I think Littlefinger plays a necessary role. Without him, there's no true mischievous dealings from the inside. He and Varys are a specific contrast that has played since the very beginning. Littlefinger is a real player in the game of thrones, and he will try to rule over the ashes if he can. I think the way I have him dying is at the very end of the series and in a surprising way.

So far, none of the deaths have been surprising. They've all been snugly written out of the show in the process of their demise. I look forward to the first surprise death, but I also don't think it will happen until the end, if it does at all. Drama rarely uses surprise deaths of major characters because it cant. It's not a coincidence that Scorsese keeps just about everybody alive until the end, then kills them all. Also Shakespeare

On that note, the marginal characters don't count. Ones like Ros and Craster play such small roles that they always could go at any minute. I was honestly surprised every time I saw Ros return. She was a nobody

[FlowJoe]

Young Miss Stark is really growing up to be a FOX!!!!! The Incest born King is a fool to pass over her for the other!! But he's off anyway!! MORE DAENERYS!!!!!

[wufwugy]

GRRM is the best at names. I read an email exchange between him and co-author on a different book they did, and noticed that he told her to not worry about naming anything because he's good at it. He's especially skilled at places, but not shabby with people either

You don't get better names than Fist of the First Men, Winterfell, Kings Landing, and Highgarden. Baratheon and Lannister are the two coolest last names I've ever heard, and Daenerys is kinda GOAT heroine name