Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[wufwugy]

that would be pretty epic but people would be so pissed

I think the most satisfying ending still involves Littlefinger winning

yeah i could certainly see a way that he is the leader in the battle against the walkers. a totally plausible but unpredictable way.

[wufwugy]

thinking about it, that would be kind of awesome

this past episode serves to illustrate how truly powerless monarchs are to save ones they love. Stannis can stop Melisandre from sacrificing his daughter; Dany can save Jorah, but they choose not to, bound by fate/destiny/whims of bloodthirsty mobs/gods

i think LF leading the last stand could subvert the trope enough that it would emerge as esteemed originality. im not sure hbo is comfortable obliterating all hope, but they may be comfortable telling the story of how the weak, secretive, conniving, bad guy was the ultimate hero against teh great darkness.

[boost]

Just lost a long post :\

tl;dr was the show ends with Daenerys snapping and becoming like her father. Unfulfilled promise in leaders is a big theme of this show and she has been built up to have the most promise as well as showing dormant Mad Kingesque tendencies. Even skeptical, jaded Tyrion is now a believer-- he's like s01 Sansa and her laughable fairy tale infatuation with Prince Joffrey. Obvious setup for a downfall is obvious.

[Eric]

tl;dr was the show ends with Daenerys snapping and becoming like her father. Unfulfilled promise in leaders is a big theme of this show and she has been built up to have the most promise as well as showing dormant Mad Kingesque tendencies. Even skeptical, jaded Tyrion is now a believer-- he's like s01 Sansa and her laughable fairy tale infatuation with Prince Joffrey. Obvious setup for a downfall is obvious.

I hope it doesn't go down like that. Dany is one of the few characters I like right now. The problem is that I think you're right.

[rong]

also the Unsullied are the most useless army of trained eunuchs ever

WTF at them getting owned by dumb slavemaster mercenaries

So much this. I mean look at how the moved as unit in when we first saw them, now they're literally useless, barely surviving a one on one with a slave master, wtf, it's annoying as hell.

[baudib]

I've been a member of #teamarya from the start, but I'd really wish she'd DO SOMETHING.

so she's been training to become an assassin and to forget her identity, and on her first assignment she blows it because she sees Meryn Trant?

Arya is probably 1 of 3-4 major characters (Littlefinger, Dany, maybeeee Bran, who barely qualifies as a major character atm) who I can't see dying anytime soon, because there has to be some payoff to all this, amirite?

[Eric]

Yeah, the Unsullied are totally useless right now. It makes no sense.

[oskar]

I've been a member of #teamarya from the start, but I'd really wish she'd DO SOMETHING.

so she's been training to become an assassin and to forget her identity, and on her first assignment she blows it because she sees Meryn Trant?

Arya is probably 1 of 3-4 major characters (Littlefinger, Dany, maybeeee Bran, who barely qualifies as a major character atm) who I can't see dying anytime soon, because there has to be some payoff to all this, amirite?

I don't think she's interested in loosing her identity. The whole faceless academy is just a means to an end.

[Eric]

Yeah, Arya still has her identity and revenge on her mind.

I'm guessing at least one major character will be killed in this final episode of the season...

[rong]

The Bolton or baratheons are gonna get it at least. Probably the Bolton s but you never know with got. I say that also because we have 2 groups representing fire which seems one too many imo. Could see stannis getting it after the whole child burning episode though.

Khalisi is gonna leave and start heading across the water by the end of the episodes. Dragons in tow.

[rong]

Predictions:

Burnt kid leads to melted snow.

Battle of the North happens.

Stannis dies, Bolton die, but ramsay survives, little finger takes the north.

Dani disappears and we get no idea wtf is happening there.

Arya gives up the assassin many faced thing and goes for revenge.

Cersei gets a trial by combat, mountain comes back, wins and kills those pesky anti incest God loving folk.

[rong]

And I haven't read any spoilers btw.

[a500lbgorilla]

And I haven't read any spoilers btw.

Everyone can tell.

JK

I haven't read your post.

[baudib]

I mean, Melisandre will bring him back right?

or he becomes a White Walker. which would be kinda badass.

[boost]

Why else is she there if not to bring him back? I don't even think it's a cheap narrative ploy, because the death scene is as much about Allister and Ollie as it is about Jon-- so this isn't like the gimmick of Superman dying.

[wufwugy]

man did i not like this episode

[wufwugy]

dnd made all the wrong choices.

the reddit speculation was far better than this crap. for example, brienne should have had to choose between her two oaths: saving sansa or killing stannis. instead we get a pointless lighting of chekhov's candle and brienne swinging at the camera.

dorne was such a colossal waste of time. and a colossal waste of jaime. all that so some chicks nobody cares about could get vengeance on somebody nobody cares about for somebody who died a season ago. meanwhile, a fat middle finger for the idea that anybody would bother wishing vengeance for robb and catelyn.

im sick of the invulnerable bad guys and bumbling good guys. somebody strip dnd of their pen and paper.

[wufwugy]

i hate the choice to end on so many ambiguities. it's writing101 what you dont do. to end a season you give your audience a resolution or a setup for a resolution down the road. the ambiguous ending provides little tension and little intrigue for new developments.

ofc dnd wouldnt realize you never end with your character at a fork in the road. you end after a path is taken or before the particular dilemma arises. i love cliffhanger endings as much as the next guy, but ambiguity is not a cliffhanger.

[rong]

Desperately trying to resist reading thread.

[JKDS]

So, what was the plot of this season? What's the 1 sentence summary?

I'm coming up blank. I think that's what's wrong with it. We had a bunch of characters carry on carrying on, but it doesn't feel like anything is really being advanced.

[baudib]

JKDS, I think there's a couple of possibilities:

1. Key longterm characters pay a terrible price for the terrible things they've done.

2. Everyone moves from black or white to some shade of gray.

I loved this episode, and I liked the season quite a bit.

I was surprised by a lot of emotions I experienced. One, I didn't expect to be so relieved to see Stannis finally die. So he ends up history's greatest monster AND worst field commander. Thank the Seven.

Two, I never thought I'd want Cersei to get revenge on all her enemies.

Finally, I knew Jon Snow was gonna die, and the sense of dread was terrifying.

************************************************** *************
Dorne was a mostly huge waste of time, but the moment where Myrcela tells Jaimie she knows he's her father, and the wonder and joy that immediately turns to horror is probably one of the best scenes in the series.

[jackvance]

Wow best show ever. What a final episode. It doesn't follow the expectations (I did know about the poisoning once I saw the kiss but that's all).. it's wild and unpredictable, goes it own way, much like life. In an ocean of seeing the same predictable story-lines being rehashed again and again, this is refreshing. The repentance thing was incredibly powerful and scary. So many deaths, does make you wonder who is left. Seeing Stannis and Snow betrayed like that, gripping, I loved every part of this episode. I'm just sad the long wait begins again.

[wufwugy]

Well, so, I wanted to rewrite this episode to show what I think it could have been. I think the start of the next season will be a little weak because of how the writers chose to misdirect the audience. What I'm getting at is things like I don't think Stannis is dead. Brienne probably hit the tree in anger that she didn't "do her duty". I think if we find this to be the case in s6e1, we'll all think the finale was a little cheap and could have been better.

I won't use any information that could be gleaned from the books, and I'll keep it in line with the story the show is telling. Let's start with some of the easier ones.

- Dorne needs a total rewrite. It's an honest to goodness mess. I won't attempt to re-imagine it here since it would involve the source material.

- The plots of Arya, Meereen, and Cersei were fine. No need for changes there. Joffenstein is great. I'm assuming that's Joffrey's purple face on the Mountain's body.

- Some minor details with Dany would have made the ending a bit more impactful, but I think they'll show up in s6 so no biggie.



That leaves what I think should have been changed: Winterfell and the Wall. Here's my vision for what it could have been

Starting with Sam: in the morning a few episodes back, Jon leaves for Hardhome. Before Jon leaves, Sam convinces him to send him to Oldtown. Jon says to set everything in order and depart the following morning. That night while Jon is gone, the Sam fight, Ghost snarl, and Gilly bang commences like normal. The following morning, Sam is busted up but still leaves for Oldtown.

Littlefinger makes an additional appearance around episode 8. He's in the Vale, convincing Yohn Royce (the man fostering Robin) and perhaps other Vale noblemen to march on Winterfell. I imagine two different ways Littlefinger could convince them (while maintaining that he is probably lying about some of it).

1) Littlefinger convinces Royce to back Stannis. This would be the Vale's opportunity to avenge Jon Arryn's assassination at the hands of the Lannisters and restore the old Robert's Rebellion alliance of the North, Riverlands, Vale, and Stormlands that led to peace. After Winterfell would be liberated from the Bolton scourge, Robin Arryn would be married to Sansa and named Warden of the North by King Stannis. Royce would then reign in the Eyrie.

2) In this option the Vale wouldn't back Stannis, and instead would look to defeat both Bolton and Baratheon then renew the Stark/Tully alliance by marrying Sansa and Edmure. With forces combined, they would march against the Lannisters at King's Landing, where Littlefinger's alliance with the Tyrells would come in handy. Tommen and Cersei would be easily usurped and Robin would marry Margaery (fourth time's the charm). The Vale would have installed its own on the Iron Throne.

Either option is big stuff for Littlefinger and the lords of the Vale.

On to Brienne: she doesn't abandon her watch before the candle is lit. She sees it and says "Pod." Pod says "M'lady." A few quick shots of Brienne fastening her armor and clasping her scabbard with determination.

Cut to Stannis exiting the woods and marching towards Winterfell. This time he didn't lose his horses, sellswords, or siege weapons (but still burned Shireen because they lost their food and were blocked in by a storm). He could also have the backing of other northerners betrayed by the Boltons. The Greatjon Umber comes to mind.

Cut to a wagon and two hooded figures entering the gates of Winterfell. We see the faces of Brienne and Pod beneath the hoods. Pan to every visible knight mounting their stallions and foot soldiers readying their gear. Roose and Ramsay sit atop their horses as well. Ramsay gives a speech along these lines: "Stannis Baratheon means to lay siege. I mean to mount his body above the gate to show the entire North what happens when a southern king brandishes steel at my doorstep." Maybe then there's a chant of "Ramsay!" or "For Winterfell!" like is normal with these things. The Bolton force charges out of the gate to meet Stannis on the field. Brienne and Pod are in the courtyard and overhear all this. Brienne looks to the exiting knights and says "Stannis." Pod looks at her and says "Sansa." After a moment of deep internal conflict, Brienne turns towards the tower, where the lit candle flickers and says "Sansa". She marches toward the tower with her hand on the hilt of Oathkeeper.

Cut to Littlefinger and Royce gallantly leading the knights of the Vale, galloping down a long road, presumably heading for Winterfell.

This is the last we see of any of these characters this season. Stannis and Ramsay are about to face off, Brienne is about to enter the tower, and Littlefinger marches.

Cut to the Wall. Except not the Wall, but Hardhome. Yes, the Hardhome battle didn't happen in episode 8, but in episode 10. The final shot of the season:




Roll credits. The internet breaks by the sheer awesomeness of Hardhome and the fistpump anticipation of the awesomeness that will come immediately as season 6 starts. Additional themes are in how the realm of men is fighting over themselves while the real fight with the doom of the walkers has just come full force.




Season 6 picks up right where we left off, with an incredible battle at Winterfell and Brienne and Pod entering the tower. Both armies sustain heavy losses and Ramsay retreats back into Winterfell. Meanwhile, Theon chucks Myranda off a balcony, Brienne finds the tower is empty, but sees the Myranda/Sansa/Theon scuffle from the vantage point of the tower window. Theon and Sansa flee after Myranda dies, and Brienne and Pod race down the tower to catch them. Winterfell doesn't have that many soldiers in it because they're mostly on the field fighting Stannis. Brienne cuts through several Bolton men, trying to find Sansa and Theon, while also sneaking enough to not get caught. Sansa and Theon are caught by a handful of guards. Just as it's all over for Sansa and Theon, Brienne emerges and fucks their shit. The crew of four then escape down the crypts, where there is a hidden tunnel out of Winterfell that Sansa recalls her father showed her once.

Jon returns to the Wall after Hardhome. Stabby stabby Jon time concludes s6e1. Also there's no "traitor" sign. Instead it's a hooded figure facing away from Jon as he walks through the group of Night's Watchmen. He says "Uncle Benjen?". The figure turns around, pulls off his hood, it's Alliser. Commence stabapalooza.


Would you guys have liked this better at all?

[Eric]

Stannis pissed everyone off last week. I don't think anyone was surprised when Brienne finished him off.

Sad to see Jon Snow go.

Like wufwugy said, seeing Myrcella die didn't have much of an impact. It's true that it is hard to feel emotionally involved with Dorne.

What's up with Theon and Sansa? It's not like they were jumping into water, right?

Why did Arya go blind at least temporarily? Who is the life that goes because of her actions?

[wufwugy]

simply omazing

[oskar]

Would you guys have liked this better at all?

No you dumb.
Final episode was perfect. Everyone expected either a battle with the undead or dragons frying rows of knights, but how satisfying would that really have been? The way it stands: ignorance wins over sensibility, superstition wins over responsible parenting, dignity looses to all.
Ten years ago I used to play in a pretty emo rock band and one of the guitarists found a chord progression in a book that was designed to just constantly build tension without ever giving any resolution or repeating itself and we used to play that for 15 min straight at gigs. I don't know where it was from or what the thing was, the point is that it annoyed the shit out of everyone and I loved it. That's my point.
perfect episode 10/10.

[wufwugy]

No you dumb.
Final episode was perfect. Everyone expected either a battle with the undead or dragons frying rows of knights, but how satisfying would that really have been? The way it stands: ignorance wins over sensibility, superstition wins over responsible parenting, dignity looses to all.
Ten years ago I used to play in a pretty emo rock band and one of the guitarists found a chord progression in a book that was designed to just constantly build tension without ever giving any resolution or repeating itself and we used to play that for 15 min straight at gigs. I don't know where it was from or what the thing was, the point is that it annoyed the shit out of everyone and I loved it. That's my point.
perfect episode 10/10.

great. you're basically saying bad is good.

[jackvance]

You're still trying to go the way of canned cheap thrills. This show is different. It's an epos.

[a500lbgorilla]

It was alright. I didn't really enjoy it though (books were beddar and what not). It does feel like a ball rolling down hill at this point. Like a slide-show of, yeah, then this happens - and it's going to make your stomach turn.

The story is sprawling at this point. The first 3 seasons were a tight enough focus on the war of the realm with only hints at existential threats dragon-girl and zombie-dude.

[wufwugy]

You're still trying to go the way of canned cheap thrills. This show is different. It's an epos.

Am I? I'm trying to avoid cheap thrills

Reignite this thread if in s6 we find out Brienne didn't kill Stannis and instead hit the tree. Talk about the cheapest of thrills.

And how about a battle in the middle of a field where one side has only foot soldiers and is outnumbered by cavalry in pincer formation. Then a huge chunk of the cavalry dies, the leader of the losing side magically showed up in the woods, and the winning side is leaving without killing him. The cheapest thrill of them all. So cheap that it couldn't afford any thrill other than saying "omg all this big stuff happened and the plot has moved forward finally even though none of it makes a lick of sense".

How about the surprise death of a character nobody cares about: Myrcella. Cheap thrill.

How about the person who killed her waiting until she was bleeding on the dock before she took the antidote. Cheap thrill.

How about the worst dialogue the show has yet seen: "bad pussy". Cheap thrill.

How about Varys showing up out of nowhere. Cheap thrill.

How about Myranda about to "shoot" Sansa even though she was never ever ever ever ever going to do that. Cheap thrill.

There's no need to continue. I think this finale was full of nutlow writing and the writers had very easy opportunities to not do so. I think they are bad and the amount of good found in the writing is because the source material gives it to them.

[baudib]

The idea that Stannis isn't dead can't be a real thought.

lynch Wuf

[wufwugy]

The idea that Stannis isn't dead can't be a real thought.

lynch Wuf

TBH I don't even think it's that hard of a call.

If he died, they're gonna fucking show it. This is HBO, where they refuse to decline from any opportunity to show something gruesome or titillating. The only exceptions are the rape of Sansa and burning of Shireen, but of course those are too gruesome for the HBO audience and the Sansa scene was all about Theon anyways. Hell, the Shireen scene was all about Stannis.

If Stannis is dead, he is the head of one of the most worthless plots in literary history. Ned's death spurred much into action. Robb's death was a foreshadowed consequence of his actions. Oberyn's death made epicness looks like meagerness. But Stannis, if he is dead the only reason his existence mattered is to get certain characters to the Wall. Which would be okay, except his character is given way to much development for this, way too varied and deep of development. If Stannis is dead, the show is the doldrums of pure cheap thrills. It means for zero reason HBO burned a little girl at the stake.

Also he just killed his daughter. And he has been getting a shit deal continually. GoT only kills people who seem invulnerable and never kills the easy to kill. I think GRRM is probably above this silly trope, but D&D definitely are not. Notice how every season where a character has died is all about how that character cannot die or is a great hero or whatever bullshit they want to use to surprise audiences.

The doofus D&D brain thinks the best surprise is to reveal that Stannis is not in fact dead. I'll eat my words if they're not true.

Stanny is alive. Deposit at the bank has been cleared.

[JKDS]

What if the story line wasnt about Stannis at all, but was instead about Mel? I feel like she straight up lied to Stannis, and did all this so she could help and be with Jon.

Why work with Stannis in the beginning? Jon needed an army to fight the walkers. Why sacrifice the daughter? She needs some fire magic to revive Jon. She tells Stannis its to help him, but then shes all like "Lolkthxbye". What happens right after? Stannis gets obliterated and Jon dies. Ermmmm Hmmmm. This is Mel's story, and shes a manipulating firelady whos trying to get in Jon's vow-laiden pants.

If its not to revive Jon, then we just saw that her magic is fallible. I think thats hard to believe considering the smoke monster and the leeches.

[baudib]

yeah I have a feeling that Shireen's death has meaning beyond Stannis.

[baudib]

Beric Dondarrion

[baudib]

Stannis was always a pretender, it's hard for me to believe anyone didn't know that all along.

[wufwugy]

I think it's a little more complex than that. I think several characters are standard tropes mixed with subversions of those tropes.

I think he is the rightful king, just not the rightful king he thinks he is. I think he's a tragic figure whose fate is to do the right thing and suffer the consequences of that thing. I think the Lord of Light doesn't give a buttfuck about Stannis' prowess in the realm of men, but I think he does care about his prowess in the realm against the dead. Stannis loses everything before he realizes that his fate is not the throne.

The LoL is interested in Stannis because he will do his duty.

Of course I would rationalize something entirely different if Stannis died. I'd be calling epic red herring. But the editing of his "death" is too awful to claim that he's a true red herring.

[baudib]

Stannis has no power over the undead, Jon Snow does.

I literally never thought for a second that Stannis would ever sit on the Iron Throne. I thought he'd play his part on the Wall and maybe against the walkers and the Boltons, but ultimately he's one of those characters who is there to serve a purpose and die as soon as that purpose is served.

I think if it were otherwise, we really would have gotten more into his background and his connection with his family, men and other real contenders for the throne and their agents (say, Littlefinger or Tyrion).

[wufwugy]

If your diagnosis of his purpose is correct, it just highlights the shit of D&D's writing. It shows they think "hey so all we need from Stannis is Mel at the wall and a dead girl, so yeah that's great now we can botch everything else involving him and call it a day."

[wufwugy]

Seriously how in the shit is Stannis dead?

Let's recap: Oberyn was a god. Not a single bad thing happened to him. He owned everything and everybody. He was the hero to heroes. His death was sudden.

Stannis lost continually. Parts of his army left, then left more the next ep and more the next ep. They just can't stop ditching the Stanny. He kills his daughter. Everybody fucking hates him. Melisandre abandons him. Ramsay charges and he succumbs to defeat before it even happens. The cherry is that just as Brienne sentences him to death, he accepts it.

I'm sorry but this character is NEVER dead in Game of Thrones. If D&D's collective fifty iq meant to kill him they would have turned him into a prime Mike Tyson first.

[wufwugy]

I would probably be overwhelmed with joy if Stannis was dead since it would mean that D&D truly are lost.

I honestly love the idea of killing Stannis at this point in the story, but I loathe the way they chose to build to that point and the death scene is just a bag of garbage.

Part of me wants to admit he's dead because I think D&D really are that bad and their writing strategy is that the ends justifies the means.

[wufwugy]

im just talking out of frustration. ignore me.

stannis is alive. bank it.

[baudib]

like 0%

[jackvance]

Am I? I'm trying to avoid cheap thrills

You're still trying to bend the story in the ways of modern storytelling. But imagine reading a history book. Sometimes people just die, and that's that. Things move in a certain direction without a twist lurking around every corner or things lining up perfectly for the big climax. That's what I mean by it being an epos.

[Eric]

Stannis is dead, Brienne took care of him even though we didn't see all of it.

I do agree this is absurd:

And how about a battle in the middle of a field where one side has only foot soldiers and is outnumbered by cavalry in pincer formation. Then a huge chunk of the cavalry dies, the leader of the losing side magically showed up in the woods, and the winning side is leaving without killing him.

[wufwugy]

You're still trying to bend the story in the ways of modern storytelling. But imagine reading a history book. Sometimes people just die, and that's that. Things move in a certain direction without a twist lurking around every corner or things lining up perfectly for the big climax. That's what I mean by it being an epos.

Oh I see what you mean.

As you say, your view clashes with literary convention. It even clashes with the convention of subversion of the convention. But that's not to say it's wrong. I honestly agree that if a writer can pull off such a subversion of trope, he is better to do it. Ofc that begs the question of whether the writer can indeed pull it off.

I'm of the mind that if you show me Chekhov's Gun, you had better use it or show me that it's a Red Herring.

[baudib]

Wuf, the thing is in this story there is the possibility of people coming back from literal death, and of course we have seen miraculous recoveries from the start of the show (Bran in Season 1).

So if every dramatic death ends up being a twist, then it kind of cheapens it. Like I used to hope that Syrio Forel had survived because he didn't see him actually die and that he would meet up with Arya somehow, or that he was Jaqen Hagar. But at this point it just feels stupid for him to be around as he wasn't that important a character, even if he was fun.

I'm pretty sure that Benjen Stark will have a role to play in all of this, because he was never resolved.

[wufwugy]

Wuf, the thing is in this story there is the possibility of people coming back from literal death, and of course we have seen miraculous recoveries from the start of the show (Bran in Season 1).

So if every dramatic death ends up being a twist, then it kind of cheapens it.

I agree. But I think D&D are just that bad. They like these sorts of surprises and twists. They regularly make the audience's expectation one thing, then suddenly change it. I think they just want the audience to think loads of people are dead so D&D can show up in s6 and say "gotcha!".

If Stannis' death was shown, I would not be saying this. Nobody's pulling a Thoros on him.

Also this is different than Syrio. One of my close friends was like you in that he thought Syrio was coming back since his death wasn't shown, but I think his death was "shown". It was shown the next time Meryn Trant was on scene. Because of that, we know that Syrio didn't exit that room.

I think Benjen is a dead end. I don't know what the specific trope is called, but I think he works fine as a Red Herring. We were told "hey there might be something here with this guy" but then there just isn't and we have to accept it. That said, Benjen still could return, but I don't think it's likely.


I just have a really hard time figuring out why everybody involved would choose to deliberately and obviously not show Stannis' death. It isn't even that they didn't show it, but that they deliberately "not-showed" it. It's reasonable to think that Hound is dead because the story left him and he could have died off screen, but Stannis didn't die "off screen", he "died" right there, right in the scene. Leaving his on-screen death ambiguous was a conscious choice by the writers. This is the main reason I think his on-screen death is a fake-out.

[baudib]

I just don't see any point in Stannis continuing in this story. Like Brienne could and would totally kill him and still go find Sansa. She's not going to have a change of heart about how she feels about Stannis. If she let him live she'd be the most ludicrous character in the history of fantasy fiction.

[wufwugy]

she could easily change her mind on killing him. all this time she has just wanted vengeance and she believes he's a monster. then when finally confronted with him, and told the most perfect thing, she realizes that what she's doing is wrong and that it's keeping her from doing what is more important.

there is a lot left for stannis. he's pretty much the only viable character to lead the nights watch, and him doing so wraps up his entire arc quite nicely. whereas if he's just dead now, most of the time spent with him was a complete waste and should have been cut from the show.

[baudib]

um, Davos is pretty clearly going to lead the Night's Watch.

Stannis just has nothing left. He has no family, no army and no one will ever follow him again. You don't fall like that in any story and have redemption, especially when he was never a central focus to begin with. Like, literally no one ever believed he was more than a distraction in the real power struggle in Westors. He was barely above Balon Greyjoy and Varys in the game.

[baudib]

also, Benjen.

I'm pretty sure Jon Snow will have plans for the NW.

[JKDS]

Hrm, Davos going to the night watch is an interesting turn. If Stannis is dead, thats a reasonable place for a 'tratior' to go. I like it.

[baudib]

Melisandre and Davos both end up at the Wall after Stannis' death for a reason, you can be sure of that.

[wufwugy]

I can't see Davos leading teh Night's Watch. First off, he won't forsake is family like all the NW has to do. Second, he's not a commander. Third, nobody will vote for him. The NW needs a commander. They don't realize it today, but they will.

The point that Stannis was more of a distraction to the real power struggle is why him dying here is so bad, because, unlike Balon, we have spent hours and hours with him. It means that there must be more to him than his desire to be a player.

[baudib]

A combination of Stannis coming back + Jaimie/Arya dying would probably be enough to make me quit watching.

[baudib]

Davos has no raison d'etre anymore, no loyalties to anyone. if he's not in the Nights Watch I'll just fucking LOL.

[wufwugy]

I think Davos will march south with wildlings to reinforce Stannis. I mean, where else will the free folk go? The NW killed Jon because he brought them in. The NW will probably try to send them back beyond the wall, and instead many will probably flee with Davos

Davos doesn't know that Stannis is "dead". All he knows is that Mel abandoned Stanny before battle. He will do everything he can to get back to the Mannis.

[baudib]

like the Nights Watch needs someone to restore a sense of honor and decency to it or it'll just crumble. Can you really have the next commander tied to the second straight mutiny against a LC? Davos is an outsider and not tied to that.

plus Samwell's story is obviously far from complete. Davos and Sam will make a good team, I think.

[baudib]

I think Davos will march south with wildlings to reinforce Stannis. I mean, where else will the free folk go? The NW killed Jon because he brought them in. The NW will probably try to send them back beyond the wall, and instead many will probably flee with Davos

Davos doesn't know that Stannis is "dead". All he knows is that Mel abandoned Stanny before battle. He will do everything he can to get back to the Mannis.

dude Stannis is dead, it's not like Melisandre is going to keep this a secret from him.

[baudib]

The wildlings will follow Jon Snow obviously.

[baudib]

like LOL if anyone thinks Jon Snow is not coming back from the dead in one way shape or form.

[wufwugy]

dude Stannis is dead, it's not like Melisandre is going to keep this a secret from him.

mel doesnt actually know his fate. she left before he even started marching after the snow melted.

the next commander will probably be alliser and the nw will fucking love making him lc

sam already left for oldtown holmes

the wildlings will absolutely follow jon. whether or not they will be around for it depends on if he gets revived quickly. frankly i think it would be awful writing for them to still be around for that. davos should be marching south with whatever recruits he can get asap.

[baudib]

like i have no idea what's next for the wildlings, but i seriously doubt it involves anything like fighting Boltons or getting involved in anyway with Westeros politics.

[wufwugy]

yeah as it is now, wildlings fighting the boltons doesn't make much sense

[baudib]

I suspect that the Boltons will be entrenched for quite some time. The Boltons' dynastic dreams will end at the hands of any number of perpetrators, including any of the various Stark factions (Sansa/Littlefinger, Bran/Rickon, Snow, assassinated by Arya), or Dany.

or they could be the first power to be taken out by the walkers.


for the most part, I think next season the drama in House Bolton will involve Ramsay-Roose violence.

[wufwugy]

I think Ramsay is being propped up as such an untouchable villain that the only person who will get revenge on him is Jon. It's like D&D are taking a shit on the Stark grave and the only way they can make it better is by having a Stark come down with Thor's hammer.

[baudib]

like i don't know what kind of power Bran will unleash, but it will probably be boring.

[JKDS]

The nights watch is gonna be interesting though. It seems like the wildings at the wall now far outnumber the nights watchmen. Any move by LC Allister (which is totally gonna be a thing) against them would be suicide. The watch would get slaughtered.

Which would make for very entertaining TV as they kill each other and then zombies attack.

My best guess though is Jon gets revived, people fear/hate him now because hes some revived abomination or something, and then he rallys the wildlings to take over and kill these traitors. Maybe he rallys them by warging or something.

[wufwugy]

[wufwugy]

tbh if they showed stannis dying, i would probably be extolling the brilliance of the writing.

i mean, if you're writing this and you have a giant red herring called stanny the manny and you want to show just how much of a red herring he is, you fucking obliterate him. you dont cut away and leave in ambiguity.

so really it's the editing that makes me think he's not dead. showing his head slice off would have been so powerful.

[Eric]

um, Davos is pretty clearly going to lead the Night's Watch.

Yeah but he'll be thinking about the way they Julius Caesared Jon Snow.

[wufwugy]

I think D&D were unsure of whether or not they would use Stannis for s6, so they deliberately didn't show him dying. It's such a strange directorial choice that it calls for a strange interpretation.

[wufwugy]

My other explanation is that since D&D so obviously hate Stannis, they just didn't care and wanted to make getting rid of him as under budget as possible.

It's a little funny to me that the showrunners hate a character that the majority of devout fandom has determined to be one of its most compelling characters. D&D must have been blowing somebody to get this job.

[baudib]

it's just a red herring