Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[wufwugy]

They wouldn't tell you that they're going to kill him, if they were going to kill him in the next episode.

This is my number one reason why I don't think he will die. I have other literary reasons that I think are strong but open to interpretation, but ultimately, this show makes heavy use of surprises. So far, all deaths have been of those who aren't supposed to die

[oskar]

What if he's just executed in the most normal, beheading procession, no interruptions....just to fuck with everyone.

I wouldn't put it past them. His story line seems to have run dry, but I'd like to think they'd give him a more pleasant ending.

[boost]

What if he's just executed in the most normal, beheading procession, no interruptions....just to fuck with everyone.

This.

The expected is a surprise when you're expecting a surprise.

[wufwugy]

as much as hate the idea, if he's quickly beheaded near the beginning of the next ep, i might have to call that some goatness

i hate the idea because i get psychologically invested and prejudiced, but from an artistic standpoint, killilng tyrion "the wrong way, for the wrong reasons" could be very good

[bigred]

as much as hate the idea, if he's quickly beheaded near the beginning of the next ep, i might have to call that some goatness

i hate the idea because i get psychologically invested and prejudiced, but from an artistic standpoint, killilng tyrion "the wrong way, for the wrong reasons" could be very good

NO NO NO. WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO AGREE

[wufwugy]

NO NO NO. WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO AGREE

[spoonitnow]

Snape kills Dumbledore.

[bigred]

Snape kills Dumbledore.

We're only on season 4 you jerk! It says HBO purists only.

[givememyleg]

jamie has to save him or something... right? don't kill the fucking imp, i couldn't handle that.

[jackvance]

This is my number one reason why I don't think he will die. I have other literary reasons that I think are strong but open to interpretation, but ultimately, this show makes heavy use of surprises. So far, all deaths have been of those who aren't supposed to die

This is my primary reason as well. He's not gonna die when the end of the episode makes it seem like he should die, when people die it's made to be a surprise storywise.

The second thing is in the flow of the story, he fills a certain role noone else has, a counterweight within the stoic Lannister family. But I was wrong about Oberyn probably in my hope he would get a bigger role, so I could be wrong about the imp roo. However, safe to say he won't die from this verdict. Jaimie saving him seems like what's being built up to with how we has been looking out for Tyrion lately.

[wufwugy]

^^FWIW I think the story would benefit from killing Tyrion. It would provoke Jaime to become the counter to Tywin and Cersei, which is a bigger deal than Tyrion doing it. Furthermore, it would make Tywin the ultimate bad guy, which would make Stannis and Littlefinger the good guys

Part of me wants Tyrion to die a horrible death and Tywin to love every minute of it. I don't think that will happen though. I'm sticking with him living because I think the show is operating on level 2 thinking and not going beyond it i.e. its deaths are the opposite of what they look like they will be. I don't think the show will ever do level 3 thinking, where they know that the audience is expecting a surprise, so the surprise is not giving the surprise.

Anyways, yeah, if they were going to kill Tyrion, the cliffhanger would be about how Tyrion was gonna get out of it, and the death would come suddenly and surprisingly

[d0zer]

There aren't any good guys in GoT. Except maybe ned stark and his bastard son.

[wufwugy]

I mean good guys as far as protagonists for the audience. GoT has those, albeit in some ways inadvertent. Regardless of how the books do it, the show has to use protagonists. From that perspective, I think fans are more pro-Lannister than pro-Stannis because of Tyrion, but if he dies at the hands of the head Lannisters, it could change a lot. Regardless, I think Sansa and Littlefinger will gradually become protagonists. Sansa would already be one if she were actively trying to fix her victimhood

[jackvance]

From that perspective, I think fans are more pro-Lannister than pro-Stannis because of Tyrion, but if he dies at the hands of the head Lannisters, it could change a lot.

This is a big part of the reason why it seems so infeasible he's going to die, it would change the whole perception of the Lannister family where they're only a bunch of sour cunts.

Regardless, I think Sansa and Littlefinger will gradually become protagonists. Sansa would already be one if she were actively trying to fix her victimhood

Agreed on Sansa who is finally in a safer environment and showing signs of breaking out of her shell. I can't shake the feeling Littlefinger isn't going to be too big for too much longer. Not that he's going to die but just take a lower role. His behavior, the contrived way he speaks doesn't really fit too well with a protagonist we need to sympathise with imo.

[wufwugy]

I've picked Littlefinger as the darkhorse for ultimate GoT winner since s2. I think he is amassing himself some great power, but I also think he will get played by Sansa. She now knows that power the ideal of her mother has over him.

An Arryn/Stark/Tyrell alliance is just beneath the surface.

[wufwugy]

[bigred]

GAME TIME

[bikes]

GIANT FIRING A GIANT BOW TY BASED HBO GODS

[bigred]

Prediction: Episode 10 starts with everyone leaving Tyrion's beheading all like, "Yeah, that was a good beheading." Don't even show it.

[ChipEaterMan]

Prediction: Episode 10 starts with everyone leaving Tyrion's beheading all like, "Yeah, that was a good beheading." Don't even show it.

[boost]

I'm all for a opening scene with an indiscernible shot of whatever, and audio of a crowd. Probably should be some sick dreadful music playing. And the shot pans, slowly revealing Tyrion's decapitated head and finally the smug smugness of Cersei and Tywin. Also some sort of foreshadowing to how this will ultimately be the downfall of them.

[jackvance]

I love how fluid and real they can make everything look with CGI nowadays. This war is starting to rival Blacwater Siege in greatness. This could be how GRRM has foreseen the Stannis-who-already-lost story deadlock: The wildlings invade and go to war with everyone. This mayhem would also be a perfect breeding ground for a Tyrion escape. We all know he's not going to actually die and we're just joking around about his death right guyz?

[spoonitnow]

I wonder if Jaime will rape anyone else beside his dead son this season.

[d0zer]

I laughed my ass off during that scene.

[boost]

I wonder if Jaime will rape anyone else beside his dead son this season.

Supposedly the director did not intend for it to be perceived as rape.

Oops.

[d0zer]

Terrible director, or director who unintentionally rapes people?

[oskar]

Or great director, great rapist.

[wufwugy]

From the sound of it, the history before GoT started sounds better than the GoT time. I would love for the show to have started with some of the Targaryen ruling stuff and ended with Robert's Rebellion and fallout. It sounds like there were good guys on all sides, really great drama, and some awesome fighting

[boost]

From the sound of it, the history before GoT started sounds better than the GoT time. I would love for the show to have started with some of the Targaryen ruling stuff and ended with Robert's Rebellion and fallout. It sounds like there were good guys on all sides, really great drama, and some awesome fighting

Uh.. sounds like the Game of Thrones we have...

[jackvance]

I wouldn't be surprised if they make that after GoT ends. GoT: the dragon age.

[wufwugy]

Uh.. sounds like the Game of Thrones we have...

Well, duh. My point is that the history sounds better and could be woven together more tightly. Maybe it couldn't, I don't know that much about it.

It's like how we hear all about Selmy's great battles in the past, but the story we have has nothing to do with them. Selmy wasn't even the greatest. Ned Stark's greatest battles were pre-GoT. Same with Jaime's. Just about everything in the GoT timeline looks like it was better during the preceding 20-40 years. I have a feeling the ending of GoT will not culminate to something as powerful as the Robert vs Rhaegar thing would have been. Tywin's diplomatic battles with Aerys sound way better than anything Tywin has done in the show. Ser Arthur Dayne vs the Smiling Knight sounds even better than Oberyn vs the Mountain. Some of the stuff Ned did after the fallout with Robert sounds awesome

[a500lbgorilla]

Stolen from reddit. No spoilers.

This isn't a story that ends with "happily ever after". That's where we started. This whole series is the sequel to a book never written. A classic fantasy, about heroes who fought against an unambiguous evil, about people who took their lives and their honor into their own hands and stormed the gates of the mad king. The brave hero became king and married a beautiful woman, his friend and comrade returned home to raise his family in happiness in the keep of his forefathers, and they all lived happily ever after.

But the brave hero doesn't know how to rule, and the beautiful woman he married isn't just a trophy for being a legendary hero, but a real person with her own flaws and needs that he doesn't know how to handle. He only ever felt at home on the battlefield, and deep down he knows that that makes him a monster. He can't forget the smell of blood in his nostrils any more than he can forget the touch of a woman who is not his wife. Neither whores nor wine nor food will fill that hole. And far to the north, his loyal vassal, his comrade in arms, does what he can to raise a family, but his wife cannot rest easy either, not while another woman's child lives in her home, fathered on some stranger by her lord husband.

Last time "Happily ever after" happened, it fell apart. Because in reality, there is no end of the story. There's just a point where the author stops writing. And if he writes long enough, everyone ends up dead. Happily ever after is something that has never happened in real life. This isn't a story, it's a snapshot. There were things that happened in this world before GRRM put pen to paper in book one, and things will continue to happen after he puts his closes the book forever. We just won't get to see them.

[boost]

Well, duh. My point is that the history sounds better and could be woven together more tightly. Maybe it couldn't, I don't know that much about it.

It's like how we hear all about Selmy's great battles in the past, but the story we have has nothing to do with them. Selmy wasn't even the greatest. Ned Stark's greatest battles were pre-GoT. Same with Jaime's. Just about everything in the GoT timeline looks like it was better during the preceding 20-40 years. I have a feeling the ending of GoT will not culminate to something as powerful as the Robert vs Rhaegar thing would have been. Tywin's diplomatic battles with Aerys sound way better than anything Tywin has done in the show. Ser Arthur Dayne vs the Smiling Knight sounds even better than Oberyn vs the Mountain. Some of the stuff Ned did after the fallout with Robert sounds awesome

Meh, it's a rich backstory, and maybe you're enthusiasm for the current arcs is waining, but I just see you saying the same thing if you had only heard about Oberyn vs The Mountain but were shown the fight between Dayne and the Smiling Knight (who.. what..?). That's the thing with literature vs film-- with the backstory your imagination can make it as awesome as you want, while film is much less open to imaginative embellishment. You can see this if you look to any continuum which has a heavily built up back story. For example, Star Wars-- I always felt the way you do about the GoT back story towards the Clone Wars. Then we got the prequels and, well, you know how that went...

[wufwugy]

Meh, it's a rich backstory, and maybe you're enthusiasm for the current arcs is waining, but I just see you saying the same thing if you had only heard about Oberyn vs The Mountain but were shown the fight between Dayne and the Smiling Knight (who.. what..?). That's the thing with literature vs film-- with the backstory your imagination can make it as awesome as you want, while film is much less open to imaginative embellishment. You can see this if you look to any continuum which has a heavily built up back story. For example, Star Wars-- I always felt the way you do about the GoT back story towards the Clone Wars. Then we got the prequels and, well, you know how that went...

The Star Wars problem was something else. Lucas tuned out. The prequels never had a chance even if they were the greatest story ever

My guess is that the way GRRM writes history is different than the way he writes the present. It isn't so much that the world isn't overall a just place, but that nothing so far has been remotely just. It's as if GRRM intentionally wants to break a mold with his storytelling, yet doesn't have incentive to do that when constructing history. Breaking the mold isn't always good.

The GoT present appears to be about what's the most surprising or unpleasant. It also appears to use more literary thematic elements. I tend to dislike those because I think plot is more important and they detract from plot. GoT history appears to be less engaged in themes and more engaged in compelling plot

It's not really something that can be debated from either side. It's subjective and I know very little about the history, but some of it I do know is somewhat spoilery.

[boost]

Hey, that duel that you mentioned... is that on the s03 Bluray extras or something? Am I not caught up?

[wufwugy]

Stolen from reddit. No spoilers.

This isn't a story that ends with "happily ever after". That's where we started. This whole series is the sequel to a book never written. A classic fantasy, about heroes who fought against an unambiguous evil, about people who took their lives and their honor into their own hands and stormed the gates of the mad king. The brave hero became king and married a beautiful woman, his friend and comrade returned home to raise his family in happiness in the keep of his forefathers, and they all lived happily ever after.

But the brave hero doesn't know how to rule, and the beautiful woman he married isn't just a trophy for being a legendary hero, but a real person with her own flaws and needs that he doesn't know how to handle. He only ever felt at home on the battlefield, and deep down he knows that that makes him a monster. He can't forget the smell of blood in his nostrils any more than he can forget the touch of a woman who is not his wife. Neither whores nor wine nor food will fill that hole. And far to the north, his loyal vassal, his comrade in arms, does what he can to raise a family, but his wife cannot rest easy either, not while another woman's child lives in her home, fathered on some stranger by her lord husband.

Last time "Happily ever after" happened, it fell apart. Because in reality, there is no end of the story. There's just a point where the author stops writing. And if he writes long enough, everyone ends up dead. Happily ever after is something that has never happened in real life. This isn't a story, it's a snapshot. There were things that happened in this world before GRRM put pen to paper in book one, and things will continue to happen after he puts his closes the book forever. We just won't get to see them.

Well, my idea about the history was never that it was "happily ever after". Both Robert and Rhaegar were heroes of their own stories. I'll be very surprised if GoT gives us anything equally as compelling as the two main heroes hating each other and fighting to the death, neither of whom was totally right or totally wrong. Maybe if eventually we get like Arya vs Dany, but that won't happen

It seems to me that the GoT storytelling avoids some of what is obviously great for stories, and I think what compelled me about the history is it doesn't do that.

[wufwugy]

Hey, that duel that you mentioned... is that on the s03 Bluray extras or something? Am I not caught up?

Pretty sure Joffrey mentioned it when he was reading the book of deeds and insulting Jaime. I read the GoT wiki on it, not the ASOIAF, which doesn't say much other than some details of how it went down and how badass the fighters wer. I've read some of reddit discussions about the greatest warriors since that's compelling as shit. They seem to include everything to date in the show and a bunch from the history

[wufwugy]

As for something HBO could do after GoT, I think it would lose a lot of strength by going back over the previous 0-40 years. A lot of the strength in the idea of having made the show start with that is all the show-only watchers wouldn't know anything about the book stories, so the Robert vs Rhaegar, Jaime kingslaying, and the loads of other awesome stuff would not have been known beforehand (except to those who read the books, but fuck em amirong?). What I think they should do is make a second series about Old Valyria, pre-dragon, pre-Targaryen, pre-doom. It would basically just be creating whole new storylines and new lore with a solid foundation. It would be nothing other than GoT part 2, but made specifically for TV, which would make the plotting much tighter IMO

[boost]

I think that's an excellent idea. I think there's a slim chance we meet some minor characters from the far far east (by the names of cities found on the map on the far east of Essos, it would seem this is the continuum's version of Asia), and I doubt we ever actually visit any of the locales, but exploring that region is ripe for a follow up series. Maybe the Dothraki would be very minor players at this time, like the Mongols pre-Khans.

[jackvance]

An important theme that adds urgency to the show and explains why it makes sense to recount this particular time period is the Wall. It has stood for over a thousand years but now the Lich King is coming, the wildlings are attacking it. If it falls this is a big event that changes everything for everyone, the dance for the throne by all the important houses will no longer be the same.

If you make a prequel you can't really topple that. If you make a sequel in normal fashion you need to make it even bigger, die hard 1 a building, die hard 2 a plane, die hard 3 many buildings, in GoT that would be something like "there's a Demon Lord that's been slumbering for 5000 years that someone just awakened".

[boost]

Yeah for sure, and that's why a shift in setting to Valyria would be perfect. That way you don't really need to top it, but just have an equally compelling event.

[boost]

Yeah for sure, and that's why a shift in setting to Valyria would be perfect. That way you don't really need to top it, but just have an equally compelling event.

[givememyleg]

well, damn. a happy ending for pretty much everyone?

[wufwugy]

Loved the undead. That was exactly how they should be depicted. The opposite of my complaints from the s2 depiction

I'm a pretty huge fight scene nit too, but the choreography and CGI of that was super good

[wufwugy]

Read the first couple chapters of a clash of kings. I'll probably get through all the books in a few months

[givememyleg]

Read the first couple chapters of a clash of kings. I'll probably get through all the books in a few months

gtfo.

[wufwugy]

We're gonna go ahead and wait until I know spoilers before I GTFO

[bikes]

probably gonna agree with renton and not watch the show anymore as they are getting far far too book spoilery

[boost]

probably gonna agree with renton and not watch the show anymore as they are getting far far too book spoilery

I think this is an absurd position. I think this is a particularly absurd position for someone who cliffnotes'd the book because they just had to know what was going to happen.

[wufwugy]

probably gonna agree with renton and not watch the show anymore as they are getting far far too book spoilery

Wait, what?

Is the show spoiling stuff for bookreaders that haven't happened in the books yet?

[bikes]

I think this is an absurd position. I think this is a particularly absurd position for someone who cliffnotes'd the book because they just had to know what was going to happen.

ASOIAF IS MY LAST JOY IN LIFE =((((((((((

[boost]

Wait, what?

Is the show spoiling stuff for bookreaders that haven't happened in the books yet?

I don't think it has really happened yet, or people aren't sure because the show diverges from the books in some (some say) significant ways, but there are events that have been on screen that take place towards the end of book five. Which means if those arcs continue, they would have to either loosely follow GRRM's outline of future books, thereby spoiling booknerds, or the show writers would have to brave it on their own.

[Renton]

They've semi spoiled a few things already for us. And without sounding like a typical book purist who says the book is ALWAYS ALWAYS better than the new medium (I can tell you right now that Kubrick's Shining, which Stephen King hated, was better than the book), the books are far FAR better than the show. So when the show catches up (it will, its a near certainty at this point that the final book will come out years after the last season of the series), I definitely will not watch it.

The books are multilayered mammoths of storytelling, rich with theme and nuance that GoT couldn't hope to match even if it were done by better filmmakers. With the current filmmakers its largely a mediocre show propped up by source material and strong actors/photographers.

[wufwugy]

Well I started reading the books because I've heard too many examples of the show cutting out cool stuff or straight up changing the events in worse ways and word is that the s5 cast is leaving a whole bunch out. It looks like the show is kinda sorta gonna try to cram b4 and 5 into s5, which just blows my mind . But I also hear that b4 and b5 aren't that great, so I dunno wtf to think

[boost]

They've semi spoiled a few things already for us. And without sounding like a typical book purist who says the book is ALWAYS ALWAYS better than the new medium (I can tell you right now that Kubrick's Shining, which Stephen King hated, was better than the book), the books are far FAR better than the show. So when the show catches up (it will, its a near certainty at this point that the final book will come out years after the last season of the series), I definitely will not watch it.

The books are multilayered mammoths of storytelling, rich with theme and nuance that GoT couldn't hope to match even if it were done by better filmmakers. With the current filmmakers its largely a mediocre show propped up by source material and strong actors/photographers.

You cray.

[jackvance]

Too much book whining.

[wufwugy]

i forgot how people are so talking about the show right now

[Renton]

I really don't think GoT compares very well with the other goat-tier shows like Boardwalk and Breaking Bad.

[MTCashman]

Can't wait till the next season.

[Farseer]

Just my 2 cents, but series is better than the books. And I have read all of those, great stuff but series is even better, with great actors and so on. Even a little shame that feel quite spoiled by the books but it's nice to know that not everything is going to be same in the series.

Still about 7 months until S5. Too long, and 10 episodes is too few.

[ManchesterUnited]

I miss Game of Thrones When does next season start?

[givememyleg]

I miss Game of Thrones When does next season start?

The season is expected to premiere in April 2015.

[wufwugy]

Halfway through ACOK

Nothing to say other than I have always hated stupid literary POV rules, and I think they are to blame for why the show feels so much more dramatized than the show. There's no getting around POV rules since editors stick to them, but they tend to pigeonhole literature. In the ASOIAF world, it means that a lot of the events aren't told dramatically but rhetorically

[wufwugy]

With that in mind, I would argue that film is an inherently superior storytelling form since the POV is always categorical omniscient. In my own writing, I have found it frustrating to hell that I can't tell a story as I see fit since that requires POV breaks. But the screen has no POV breaks, and thus can portray events most appropriately

[wufwugy]

i may or may not stop reading after finishing book 3. it's weird since the books are defo good, but i feel like the side characters are much better in the show. some of the main characters are better in the books, but some aren't. i guess if the show/book deviation is big enough by the end of b3 and i prefer the book storytelling, i'll go with that

when the books cover the cool stuff, it goes into more depth. but they just dont seem to cover as much obviously cool stuff. granted, from where im at, renly only just died

[ManchesterUnited]

I already finished book 3

[wufwugy]

I'll be finishing book 3 tonight. Not sure if I'm going to read book 4. I really like the books, but I like the show better. I just don't know if I'll find more enjoyment out of watching the show before reading the books or vise versa

[wufwugy]

Somebody convince me of what to do

[wufwugy]

I have found myself quite underwhelmed by all the major events so far. Oberyn's death in the show was destruction of the ego, his death in the books was like if you heard about this one time a guy got hit by a car. Every side character is better in the show, by a lot. The only exception is Daario, but that's because he's garbage in the show. The extra detail of lore and dialogue is great in the books. Some of the main characters are better in the books.

I seriously cannot decide if I want to get my spoilers from the books or from the show

[JKDS]

All you non-purists get out of this thread! Rabble rabble!

Wuf, spoilers regarding why you'll hate book 4, without any actual spoilers about the story/characters themselves.

Spoiler: Show

Book 4 takes half the characters, and talks only about them. Book 5 takes place at the same time, and takes the rest of the characters and talks only about them. Imo, book 5 has most of the good characters. Meanwhile, season 5 will instead take from both books. So your options are really to read books 4 and 5, or read neither and watch the show.

[wufwugy]

Thanks, but I've known that for a while. I can't believe the editors thought that idiocy was acceptable

[Renton]

Pros: They're really good, the show will probably eviscerate wide swaths of them, including entire major character arcs.

Cons: Dance ends on massive cliffhangers, and nobody knows when Winds will be coming out. Winds figures to resolve these cliff hangers right away and IMO is going to be better than Storm.

[baudib]

i stopped reading a bit farther than you, Wuf. I am happy with my decision. I'll probably reread the entire thing when the show finishes.

[wufwugy]

Almost halfway through Feast. Now that most of it is new, I think I like the books more than the show. It appears that the show is going to end up in a much different place. I also think that what I like more about the show (side characters and sick cool small scenes like Tyrion dragging the chair or Teh Joffs gonna gives Uncle Stanny a red smile) is better to add to the books instead of replace it or come before it

[wufwugy]

Spoiler: Show

Daario is awesome in the books. The show's decision to tamper his ridiculousness is ill-founded. It just makes him come off as a douche who says stuff you've heard douches say before. In the show he says something like "I didn't like the way he looked at me so I stabbed him in the eye." But in the books he says something like "his gaze lingered upon me so I scooped his eyes from his skull and mounted them upon my stallion so he could gaze upon me to his heart's content"

Halfway through Dance so I'll be exiting this thread soon. Season 5 is going to be awesome but it's also going to be very different